qwazse

I think the weekly pack meeting would only be sustainable with small numbers. For me the tough thing about pack meetings is the decibel level. It took me about a month to recover from the "shell shock" of each pack meeting! (I now hold CM's and elementary school teachers in very high esteem.)

BTW, E732, I am getting the "I don't like" talk from my crew officers. They don't realize that language like that comes off as "I'm not going to help you put together the program you may enjoy." I chalk part of it to outright selfishness. Part of their motivation for joining a crew was to get away from the littlun's (i.e. younger scouts). Now that they're bigger biggun's, someone needs to do program, that someone is them, and there's nowhere to hide. Part of it is burn-out. Expenses have increased and earning potential has not, so they need to work harder to afford their adventures and support their families. (If they were in the "bad kid" category, the "no free lunch" reality has hit them hard.) My best officer material pull double shifts (be it at work or college or boot camp) to make ends meet. That leaves little time for venturing.

I'll admit. The projector for the playoff game was more a luxury for me and the SM who had committed to this weekend when play-off hopes were thin. The boys' memories of that weekend involve sledding, snow-men, campfire, and who left their boots outside of their tent while it snowed overnight. Keep up the good work.

"You get out what you put into it." That's my line to the boys. We have some pretty bad kids who are actually great scouts. Why? They commit to meetings (about an hour a week). They fit camping in their schedule (30 hours a month). They show up at service projects (8 hours a month). They fund-raise (4 hours a month). Then they should do a little work on advancement (1 hour/week, averaged over their career), plan outings (1-2 hours month). On top of it they are the privileged few who get SM's "special" attention (1 hour/month issue specific conferences!). Really, it's amazing that they want to put any time into this program at all! But keep in mind that kids this age are just beginning to load up their schedule, and most of them would not understand a time commitment if you gave it to them. Time involvement is a quantity that may help parents more than boys.

Movie? No way. Scouting is outing! Steelers/Raven's play-off game projected on a the wall of a dining fly during a winter camp-out? Well, in these parts that almost counts as being reverent! Really, the best part (besides the outcome of the game) was explaining to an internetTV-age scout how an antenna worked!

I find my Swiss Army knives get that way over time. Cleaning the hinges with a little sewing machine oil or WD-40 and q-tip sometimes helps. I've recovered "buried" knives (from previous homeowner?) while mowing lawn. A day's soak in baking soda and another day in white vinegar sometimes helps.

Our crew had one and I didn't know about it. (It amounted to a couple of $, but came in handy when registration got overcharged, and they needed to refund us.) They are that common around here. For once you're not crazy. (Well, no more than the rest of us.)

fa, I reread your question and the way you phrase it, it sounds like the crew is tightly related to the troop. They probably have the same unit #s (like mine) and the advisor and SM might be the same person (unlike mine). Point is, what I might express may have no relation to your two units. There is no one-size-fits all. Probably the first thing that you could do to make it sound like you are more of an expert in Venturing than what you are is get to know the adults and find out how they are leading things ... Are they two units who want to act a little more in unison? Are they effectively one unit who could stand to diversify a little? Are they fine with how they are organized? Where do the youth want to go, and do the leaders feel they can get them there? How engaged is the CO in the scouting program? You don't need hours of training to begin figuring these things out. Just keep in mind that there are no hard-and-fast rules as to how tightly or loosely troop and crew should operate under the same roof. As you learn the lay of the land, you will get an idea if you need to touch base with two fairly independent leaders on different occasions, or if you can sit them at the same table at the same time.

fireeagle29, [based on everything that I as an advisor did not get from my UC over the past five years ...] Ditto UCE. You might want to call the advisor, admit that you're new to this crew thing and would like to help by learning. Let him know your taking the training and ask him or any of his adults to join you if they haven't taken it. After that, a phone call every few months would be nice.

I knew one boy who submitted a recommendation from his sister. Can't remember if it fulfilled any particular category, but it was a rather nice letter. If you think everyone is being sincere (i.e., the letters collected seem to give the Board of Review and objective perspective of the boy), and you still have references from three other people, I'd take things at face value and move forward. If the boy can get a letter from someone else like Shortridge suggests, that's gravy.

MT - I have heard similar frustration among trainers in my district. Heck my youth felt it because two of them held a council-wide ILSC course and only three students showed up -- from a neighboring council! The harsh reality is that for most of us time is a rare commodity, and location isn't. So, I think districts should shamelessly promote courses council/area wide because a training day may work for only 5 people in a district, but but might work for 2 people in each of 10 neighboring districts. If this is the case for 3 or 4 training days throughout your region you'll get a lot of people trained. The problem then becomes how do you herd people to these various training opportunities without them getting so many announcements they ignore them all and miss out on then one day that they *could* attend?

Troop Meetings: 60 minutes. We give a little grace to go over from time to time if an activity is interesting or if there are a lot of BOR's. Crew meetings: 30 minutes. With the officers doing a lot of the heavy lifting developing program between meetings. Activities/training aren't considered meetings. For what it's worth, fall sports seem to be the most challenging time for our HS kids, so crew meetings don't really start up until the end of October and we roll through the summer. The troop on the other hand only meets when school is in session and not in the summer. (Again, shake downs or preparation for summer activities are not considered meetings.)

I'm tall too. Most packs can be extended to fit most human frames. I use a Kelty Trekker. What you want to avoid is getting a pack that is so large you get tempted to fill it! Even if you don't fill it, those extra cubic feet lead to more weight away from your back (once the gear settles) and more torque on your spine. End result, 40 pounds in a large pack drags more than 40 pounds in a smaller pack! Take at lest one hike a month with full gear, and you'll be able to make your mind up about what configuration suits you. Plus, you'll get some quality time with your daughter!

So, let's work on that "payment in kind" theme. Suppose (instead of individual accounts) a unit takes a poll of what youth would like to purchase, purchases gear in the desired proportions, and loans out gear to a member contingent upon him/her having participated in unit fundraisers at some agreed-upon level. (The thinking here is that one is more likely to be a better steward if there is some "sweat equity" in the equipment.) Is the value of the gear (depreciated by the time it is in the scout's possession) taxable? After all, to take Beav's argument to the extreme, the troop maintaining its own cache of tents/backpacks/helmets/ropes/dogsleds etc ... is depriving some outfitter somewhere of potential rental income.

... beyond the legality issues..why do we keep trying to justify it? Because there is something that sounds right about individual responsibility. That is, if you, Jack scout, raise funds for this organization, then you, Jack scout, has the right to allocate some of those funds for the needs of the organization. Note that our units' cultures are such that equipment, gear, uniforms, etc ... get handed down to new members of our units. If that did not happen, I assure you, many venturers in our community would never try backpacking. The up-front expense would be too much for a firs-timer. In fact, a scout that shows up prepared for a trip, (gear ready, properly uniformed, fees paid) provides an essential service to our community. Will that scout be able to write off his expenses (gear, uniforms, and fees) if his fund-raising is treated as income?

Also, personal management. Nothing directly related to the course, but if the boys are starting to earn income, learning to track it is a good thing. Along those lines, family life may be good to take at this time. Those two are ones boys put off until last. But I've seen it really hinder a boy (not just in making Eagle, but in enabling him to handle important issues -- high adventures, car maintenance, girlfriend -- in those teenage years). The content in the MB Pamphlet might not be new to him, but getting to know a couple more caring adults who he can talk to can make a huge difference.

Way to go TT. Bring in a USMC "heavy" to use the F word (the really nasty three letter one) on those dissenters! F.Y.I. - my young Venturing females have the same problem. I mean, they don't have "the problem", they just act like they do. It's a shame.

My daughter took the course. It's a little redundant (first aid and emergency preparedness), but also has helpful hints that boys may neglect (e.g., bring toys/videos, clean the kitchen once the kids are asleep, etc ...). After the course, your son should look over his first class requirements and see if there is anything he can demonstrate to the patrol leader. I think a first-aid merit badge counselor is going to want to see him demonstrate all the required skills. But, if your son tells him/her he has some red cross certification, he might be allowed to skip some reading/instruction and go straight to testing.

I have accumulated a variety of aluminum kits (and cast-iron ware) over the years (including utensils from garage sales), and I mix-and-match to suit my needs. Thus, mesh bags are a must. My son stole my aluminum cup (which I had "procured" from my brother many years ago). So I "procured" a wire-handled bowl/cup from the scout shack hand-me-downs. Most backpacking trips I take the bowl/cup, a spoon, and my pen-knife. (My espresso pot counts as a luxury item, not part of the mess kit.) Since I have a mesh bag, I prefer the kits that don't require nuts and bolts to attach handles (snags). I throw in a pot-holder and some lightweight tongs to grip stuff. The "outer layer" of my "complete" personal kit is a 2 quart pot and a teflon coated pan. And has a nice 1 quart pot on the inside. I used it since I was an older scout. It worked really well with my patrol b/c with a little wire, we would rig a double broiler and make chocolate fondue. Not something easily done with a scout mess kit. But, for your money, if BD is offering you a freebee, give him a call.

E92 - Yes. And sometimes we adults will present our packs to the youth so that they can see different styles/priorities. The problem with venturing age kids is the attendance and communication issue. In their mind a backpacking trip is a one-time event where, in reality it is a multi-weekend preparation program. I have one young lady who missed the training weekends, had her friends get her "up to speed", then was miserable on the back-country weekend. (Her mom loved it, BTW!) She swears she will never backpack again. le Voy - Do you encourage the youth in your unit to head out as minimally as you do?

dg - don't worry. I worded the ticket so that the measurable part of the goal was the invitations I sent and the RSVP's from my adults. That they RSVP's were negative is an irritant. Like I said, it's not about the beads! I'll bring this up with the youth. emb - they don't have time to attend meetings. Committee hasn't met in a hare's age. Yes, there is history here. (Which I won't bring up with you ... or the youth!) I was hoping that I could get some trained adults from whom to select a new CC. But maybe I'm putting the cart before the horse.

I'll back BP with the uniform experience. The more you push, the more they walk. The only way it happens is if the youth in the crew make it their own idea. But, I'll also agree that because my crew hasn't settled on a uniform over the past 6 years, they are nearly invisible in the community. They grow by word of mouth. I'm pretty convinced that's not good enough. A lot of times a youth will show up and say "I didn't realize __ was in this crew!" Skip, the necker is making more and more sense to me. I'll pitch it to my officers. After all, our VP did suggest capes a while back. (And you think the price of a field uni is expensive!) Could you post a site with some pics of several varieties, maybe I can use it as a conversation starter? It would be a really neat twist of fate if they did adopt the colors of what was once our troop necker! (The boys in the troop dropped it quite a few years ago.) Then at troop meetings a boy could wear both uni's to signify his membership in both units!

I was a little confused if that was 70% of all donations divided up into accounts for each scout or each scout who brought in a donation would get 70% of it in his account and 30% into his den'c account, anyway ... Not a pack, but ... Our troop sets a budget, donations first fund whatever is needed for the following year. (That includes bringing the general fund to a safe minimum, new equipment the SM thinks the troop needs based on QM's inventory, and SM's discretionary fund.) Then we consider increasing our scholarship/campership fund. Then (and here's that part that may not apply to a pack) with whatever profit has not been allocated to those needs, we divide up into scout accounts in proportion to the hours the scouts worked. That way they learn about business (e.g., you can "earn" something just by waiting tables but you can add value to those hours worked by increasing sales/marketing). If you have a huge bounty, I would suggest you roll it over into next years budget and ask the boys which fundraiser they liked the least, and drop that one. My second suggestion is use it to underwrite the cost of a popular activity like summer or day camp so that anyone who attends only has to pay half of it. I would not direct it to the boy or his den. Most donors are giving thinking you are building program for boys "like" the one they are handing the check to, not the little guy himself. I think it's better to do something special for the pack as a whole and announce that it was because of some generous donations. In fact, if donations were really above and beyond, your committee may want to consider putting an ad in the local paper thanking the community for their generous support.

I've been pretty lax with my venturers, and that costs us in distance traveled. For the scouts ... I would suggest 1/5 for new boys who are not in a weight training program. The older I get the more I realize I need to be at or near that mark! The other point of patrols is to divide up components. Cook kit from utensils from burner from stove. Tent from fly from stakes from pegs. Finding a lighter sleeping bag cheap is one of my bigger challenges. I'm skeptical about the weight exchange between tarps and tents. But then I use a very small tent or carry half of a buddy's larger one. Multiple trips of varying challenge are important. The kid who hasn't done the 4 mile shakedown hike should not be on the 15 mile weekend. (Unless you have a plan "B" that can safely reduce the trip to 6 miles if things aren't working out.) Once they've felt the load they'll more likely listen to those tips about weight saving, balancing, etc...

You as a committee can do something ... Move that lacking a financial report to guide your decisions, move that fees be held at previous years' levels. Move to table any discussion about finances until a financial report of actual vs. budgeted expenses is presented. Make plans for spending cuts until these issues are resolved. This strategy is not without risk. You might assume that you cannot do a program when in fact you might have a balance on your account. But it's better to take the treasurer at her word and figure out what are the wrong assumptions about your budget. Here's hoping that you all can find a fix soon.