qwazse

The young lady is a Venturing youth, so it is not required for her to take it for any needs of her crew. That said, I would be thrilled to have a IOLS trained youth in my crew. I would ask her to throw the gauntlet down to other venturing leaders. Because IOLS is for leaders and she's doing this for her troop, she doesn't need a chaperon of the same sex. However, depending on the maturity of the individual (or the immaturity of the other students), you may want to ask around if there is another female adult willing to take the course. You may or may not know your district's volunteers well enough to discern that. But encouraging more female adults to take IOLS is never a bad idea.(This message has been edited by qwazse)

We have all kinds of pockets. No secret that we take donations and hand-me-downs. The Mrs. feels blessed with with a job and a love for shopping, so when she hears that Johnny or Janey needs boots or pack she'll get 'em for bottom dollar and have me leave them on their door step no questions asked. Every boy knows that gear just sitting in his closet is doing nobody good. As a result our place is a revolving door for gear. But, charity has its limits. We don't float anyone for high adventures. If they can't put up the cash through fundraisers or their own job, they're off the roster. (Obviously we'll find a donor for the one kid in every 20 who can't make that last payment due to unforeseen circumstances.) It's our units' responsibility to provide low-cost options for program while challenging boys to save aggressively. If a subset of those boys put their dimes behind an additional trip, we support it as best we can. Sometimes we're lucky and nearly the whole troop or crew fall for a big ticket item. Everybody pitches in to make it work. But those times are rare of late. Oh, and we do have a lot of movement in social class. Day laborers whose kids are professional/executives and vice-versa.

Honestly, the fact that the boy is having dialogue on this level shows some impressive communication skills. I'm glad you want to take the time to help him take it to the next level. Hopefully he will plan a time to teach another skill and meet with you ahead of time.

I like the way Sail thinks. The advantage of this, by the way, is that a boy can be working on a number of requirements at once, mastering each. I had the opposite experience of SP. We had a sprained (potentially broken) wrist while backpacking. And the boys had a hard time addressing it on their own, in spite of the 1st aid merit badge. They kind of had the concepts, and I bet they could repeat the skill with the materials laid out for them, but they didn't get so comfortable with the skill that the materials would be secondary. They couldn't rig a splint absent a triangular bandage. Truth be told, it was a tough problem for us SMs to figure out. (Posted about it in a previous thread.) But I do wonder if we were a little bit victims of a "once and done" mentality.

Ea, Eag and Rat, Ditto. There is no "boy feeling he met a requirement". There is going to the PL and saying "Let me show this to you." or "Did you like the meal I cooked for you all?" or "You remember how I kept us from hiking miles out of our way?" and following up, "Well here's my book, it deserves a signature on that line." Some of the pro-O&D posters sound like they are signing off on requirements instead of the PL/SPL. First of all, that's really tiring watching 10 newbs tie bowlines, etc .... Second, that sets yourself up as the sole judge and jury. Trust me, the older boys will come to you when there is something that is ambiguous. Thirdly, whatever your opinion on these matters, you miss out on sharing it with the boys who need to hear it the most (your leadership corps). Finally you miss out on the really fun part of the SMC ... "I see PL Tom signed off on cooking. I hear he's pretty strict. What did you do to impress him?" By the way, did I tell you we had the best FC SMC ever this summer? Three adults and the candidate were on resting on pine needles watching the sun set across the edge of a canyon while the rest of the troop was on a water run. I'm really glad the boy took as long as he did to make rank; otherwise, we would have missed that moment!

Yep, BD you did these boys a disservice. 1. You did not ask where this unit (if indeed it was a BSA unit) was from. You weren't friendly in spite of their lack of courtesy. 2. You did not take it upon yourself to explain the rules of courtesy along the AT. The simplest being: first-comers get dibs. The more nuanced being: give the old guy a little space for cryin' out loud! 3. After having read all of Kudu's posts, you didn't take time to educate this group on the patrol method (groups of 8 at least 300' apart). So thanks a lot. I'll probably be sitting on a boulder someplace 100 yards away from my youth and this outfit is going to troddle along and tell me to bugger off! And because you let them have their way, I'm the one whose going to have to set them straight. There are plenty of rules on the scouting books for this sort of thing. Folks just need to be reminded of them.

... thank you to the powers that be that Engineer61 is not a parent in our Troop ... How do you know? I can see a lot of parents in our troop fitting this mold. The SM and ASMs and talk at length to them when they raise concerns. Sometime they're right. Sometimes we offer apologies. Other times we make it clear that change is not forthcoming and explain why.

1. Not sure of the percentage. And leadership structure was not the only issue. 2. The boys in our troop love it there. Some boys whose parents spun off to another troop miss "our grass." 3. You all heard me say it before. We need a sign: "Troop ___, we take bad kids!"

100% of boys FCFY is what offends us. That a couple of "ahead of the curve" boys deservedly earn FCFY is not a problem. When you tell me that my unit lacks quality because it's taking on average 2.5 years for a boy to achieve FC, I reply that that is precicely why our unit is quality!

I think Kathy nailed it. Not only does a scout learn, a scout teaches. We teach our PLs to find out what their boys need for their next rank, build a program around it, and teach the skills for it. We have our scout-ranks/tenderfoots teaching newbies the parts of the badge. Second class scouts teach basic knots and let the tenderfoots know who they can talk to about rights and responsibilities. First class scouts demonstrate line rescues and arrange hikes. Now we don't intentionally make every SMC a review session, but if a boy can't show he knows a skill, we send him back to the books. (Since I don't teach EDGE, our boys know that learning a skill starts with reading a reference.) We don't delete his signature. We won't take away his 2nd class rank. But we aren't going to worry about a week's delay. We don't give him a pass because that just insults his intelligence.

Nag is a hard job. Done well, everyone loves you. Done poorly, you're doomed. The parent who shows up or sends her boy with a box of homemade chocolate chip cookies -- troop cookie-master.

As a crew advisor, this comes to the fore a lot. I've known parents who simply couldn't trust the YP guidelines to keep their daughter (on case it was a son) safe. Explaining the G2SS to them in detail didn't help. One youth upon turning 18 wanted to join the crew, and I encouraged her to still get the okay of her folks. It was sad when they didn't approve, but I told her I admired her for respecting their wishes and left it at that. The parents who could trust us were the ones who were willing to come on outings and see things in operation.

Way to go, Bart, now I LOST THE GAME! I figure it's renamed because a lot of us have read or studied game theory. And you've made the WB-ers point. If you are "in the game" to "win all you can" you loose sight of the possibility that "you all can win". In other words, if the aims of scouting are not valuable, your best strategy is to get the most out of the program for you and your kid and not return too many favors. But, if the aims do have intrinsic value, your best strategy is to make sure the way is clear for everyone to achieve those aims in hope that you'll be included in the winning. Sure, it's a little hokey. But I think that's the point. BTW ... Our course director did reference the prisoner's dilemma.

On pirates: I just read a quote from a brigand who was arrested by Alexander the Great [to which I can only paraphrase at the moment]: "the only difference between us is I rob using one ship while you do the same with an armada." On what-to-do-with-my-kid: Keep in mind that the SM may have gotten jumped on by the last BOR for sending up scouts who had no clue about insignia, and he was just trying to save the boy the embarrassment that comes with failure in front of a bunch of adults. Not saying the adults' attitude is right, but sometimes that's the dynamic. If your boy's having fun, stay. Volunteer to offer a skills challenge on one or two requirements. (For example, I routinely offer orienteering challenges and water rescue, another dad is all about fire starting, another about citizenship, another about insignia.) Make it available to the entire troop. Have a prize for the best patrol or the boy who is first to submit an answer in writing. It could take up the morning of a campout, a 15 minute opening activity, or an 5 minute announcement. Make it so the SPL can set it up (or at least help). You don't have to change everything. You just need to offer one thing that will enhance the program. (If you think of 5 things like that, hustle up and take WB because your ticket's nearly written.) You just explain to your son that bureaucratic delays are part of the micromanagement of this troop, and enduring them is the price of sticking with it. If he's okay with that price, he'll learn to stick with it. If he's not having fun, let him know it's okay to visit other troops and transfer to one that's more his style. When he's older he may find himself building patrols with other boys anyway (e.g. Jambo, O/A, etc ...), so he's just getting a head start on that fun part of scouting. But, point out that chances are a boy-led troop may not sign off on requirements as quickly. PL's are busy people, and you often learn the parts of the badge on your own. Or if you do it in a group, you aren't allowed to sign off on it until at least the following week, and you have to get it perfect before they'll sign off (no looking it up and coming back that same hour), and there's no rank-advancement SMC until the PL is sure your stuff is in order. At the end of the day, forall the fun you'll have, advancement may go a little slower.

Well ... references can be a selective list. The advantage of someone from the community, is you can easily use the local grapevine to tap more folks than are on the reference list. But, as Beav pointed out, a really good predator knows how to hide in plain sight. He/she is unlikely to be the bumbling 19 year old who's new to town and looking for some way to make himself useful to the community where he just landed.

I think each year a good program should provide multiple opportunities for a boy to exercise every T-2-1 requirement. In this age of velcro and ratchet straps, I'm never surprised when a boy forgets how to tie a sheep-shank. But, when he can't re-learn it quickly by going to the book, that's a problem. If a boy shows continued ineptitude with knots, I don't want him advancing. Why? Because his patrol can't count on him to pull it together (literally) when they need him to. He is, by definition, not a First Class Scout.

MIB, I'm with you. There are certain hassles with young adult leaders, but the payoff is usually bigger than the grief. I think the apprehension isn't entirely age. Part of it is "stranger danger." Successful troops are tight communities and have built up a pretty stable core of leaders from a narrow set of channels. They look askance at that "foreign influence" and stick to their usual sources for adult leadership so long as they aren't betrayed by them. I suspect if I turned my resume' into Eng and his wife -- absent my 14 year old first class scout-son -- it too might get rejected. I'd find my way to a unit that needs me. Although they may be rejecting an asset and making their boys no more safe, I doubt it would hurt their program much.

vol, First, thank you for your cheerful service. You're in for a wild ride. (That includes, among other things, getting niggled until you call it a "Venturing" crew.) I introduced myself to my youth at their inaugural meeting as "the first crew advisor I ever met" and promised that my co-advisor and I would try to correct that (by taking Venturing Leader Specific Training) before they met again. Being humble at the start helped a little. Also, I think it made the kids realize they were starting something new. Time for them will go by so fast, so you don't want to squander any leadership opportunities. If I had it to do over again ... The advisor would start with elections at this first meeting. The way I do it ... - Introduce the program for about 5-10 minutes. - Then, describe the officers you need. (Some crews feel the need Quatermaster, Historian, and Guide while others do without.) Give them an index card with the title, "Crew ###, 2011-2012 Officers" and the positions down the left hand side. Give them a pen. Say, "You have 15 minutes when I come back, I expect you have selected the right people and put their names beside the office you've elected them to." - Leave the room and take any parents with you. I would take all adults to the other room and explain that while the kids are electing their leaders you need them to organize in two ways: - Decide how the committee chair should organize and schedule committee meetings. (My one requirement is that no committee meeting is held in the absence of the crew president.) - Complete a program capability inventory (forms for these are in the leader's manual, but you can get them online.) - Remind parents that they need to complete youth protection if they want to officially register with the crew. - Advisor emphasizes that we don't produce *any* program unless the youth initiate it. Parents who insist on doing too much for the kids will be remanded to VLST. (And deprived of caffeine and chocolate if necessary.) - Advisor reminds them that female adult leaders are precious in the eyes of many in venturing. If there is a mom or older sibling willing to camp and hike wherever with the young women in your crew, you may not be able to guarantee her much besides the admiration of young people who will be thankful for that woman's availability. While adults stay and cogitate, advisor returns to the youth and thanks the newly elected officers for their ensuing year of service. Say, "I'm sure you'll do an excellent job. Officers we need to figure out some times for us to meet at length. But, let's use the remainder of our time to brainstorm about activities you all want to make happen in the next year or two." You can hand out the activity interest survey, or lead a brainstorming session. Your newly elected secretary can record results. (Take that paper home, it will be your compass when you do meet with the officers.) Bring everyone together. Introduce the officers for the upcoming year. Let them know that the adults before them will be available at the youths' request. Look forward to the next meeting. Anyway, that will make for a busy meeting. But, it will give you an idea of what's really important for the kids and enable you to set your compass. There will be plenty of other meetings where you can discuss the nitty-gritty like by-laws, uniforms, public displays of affection, chairmen-of-which activity.

One of the boys in our troop has one. He loves it. Still sleeps on the ground though! Enjoy experimenting. As far as packs go, don't get one so big that you'll fill it with stuff that will weigh you down. If you can borrow a friends until you decide which one works best for you, I'd take that route.

When it comes down to it, what makes a Jamboree is the scouts who go there. If meeting people from everywhere is your thing, then this is the place for a young lad to start. At least, that's the core of my Jamboree memories from 30+ years ago. That said, I've never been interested in going back, nor have my kids had much interest. (Although, my daughter enjoyed hosting a local satellite party of the arena show.)

V. There's no such thing as "a" personal 1st aid kit. You should have one stashed in every gear bag you have. One thing I try to leave behind: a hike plan! Don't clear your patrol to go without one!

I like my VLA knot. And did wear the bling on one formal occasion. When I heard it was being phased out, I had my DE get a second knot for my scout uni. It's nice to have something that no other adults are getting. But, a knot or nothing but a handshake ... either way I'm happy it isn't a plaque!

Thanks for the update. Regardless, y'all did right by TT.

Just a thought: OA chapter chiefs and venturing officers should be planning/administering district/council activities. My point, if a youth are promoting the events, they may be more sensitive to expenses, etc ... Certainly we have negotiated for better fees when our VOA cabinet says "that's nice, but too expensive for me and my crew." Also, if a kid is collecting the fee, you might be less frustrated about paying it.

"Trust, but verify. In that order. " No way... "Verify ... decide if you trust the verification ... consider closely monitored events." Yeah sure, like, if the guy's been a collegiate football coach for years, you can trust that verification more than if some young buck's scoutmaster tells you he is worth the bling over his left pocket? We see how well that worked for the kids in Happy Valley. Don't get me wrong, we need to be on our guard, but like Beav explained, the strangers are no more of a threat than the familiars.