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Coming in late to this conversation because I was with our boys having a riotous time at summer camp. Regarding Horizon's comments about BSA being shut out of the market of "Top academic kids" "Top athletes", etc ... I'd like to point out that son #1 was in the top 10 of his class and earned 4 varsity letters (and a girlfriend) before earning Eagle. Several of his classmates were scouts/venturers and equally high achievers. True, he never made it to Philmont, but so far neither have I. Our troop now has more tech-school students among it's senior membership, but they are really good friends for son #2 and it's true they have more time for scouting, but scheduling around them is equally challenging. In other words, scouting is good for everyone, otherwise I wouldn't waste my time with it. Finally, I agree with Barry that units need to think of visibility in their community. We could spout "youth-led," "adult trained," "#eagles," etc ... But folks (parents especially) need to see that their boys will be doing important stuff if they stick with scouting.

2C, Thanks for bringing up the topic. I need to recert my 1st Aid and CPR to complete my BSA Guard recert, so E92's details are very helpful. I now know what to look for. Question: how much beyond BLS are the wi Depress first aid courses?

I figure the rules are based on the trouble a particular group of boys have gotten into. If a troop has spent the past year bandaging cut thumbs, etc ...they'll do something to get everyone on the same page. Theat my mean restricting knife use until trained. Even then a boy may be allowed to carry his knife, just not use it until he gets his card. If the tro hasn't had problems (probably because the go over safety often), then they might not even bother with the cards.

Scout son #2 says: "Pointless. Utterly ridiculous. So we need a green card for the Internet now?" Fore me, anything that perpetuates the EDGE delusion is not worth my time. Although a venturing level pledge that involves responding promptly to advisor's Email would come in handy if it works better than that Silver-Ring thing!

So is national gonna pay for the broken wind shield???? Whatever is not covered by insurance. It's an accident during a scouting activity, so maybe it would be worth the paper push. It can't hurt to try. Anyway get your scout exec on the line. Probably should have been your first move.

Scouting is for hard workers. Some of the introverted boys I knew could work hard. Slackers, introverted or extroverted, would eventually find an excuse to quit.

Some boys just can't stop yammering. Keep in mind that sometimes they make the best patrol leaders. Go figure. Yep, the SPL was a little harsh. Removing you from office probably won't solve the problem, so there was no point in suggesting it. As far as does he have the authority? Well that depends on the troop and how the SM lets things play out. Anyway, do talk to the SM about it. You and he may need to think of some "negative" reinforcement. Nothing violent, but maybe something like "Johnny, sounds like you don't want to be part of the opening/closing ceremony. Why don't you step out of line and sit with your mom until we're done here?" Finally, plan a patrol hike or camp-out with these guys. Get them doing things that require *them* to pay attention to each other. Tracking game, for example, is a good excersize that requires communication and stealth.

That's like asking if I visit a town council meeting, can I vote on a motion? Now if these are new parents who haven't pushed paperwork quite yet, you may want to give them a vote. Otherwise, any non-members present may have "voice but not vote."

Follow the program and mean what you say. After a scout ties his timber hitch for advancement he continually is placed in situations where he will use that knot, and all the others. Ban all Velcro, web straps, tie-downs,ratchets, and bungee chords. Here's the deal, you will always have scouts that get by with the minimum, whatever standard you set. A boy may look sharp from T to L, then something happens at 16 (diesel or per- fumes maybe) and he's just skating by. You wonder if the program is broken when he gets his bird and then disappears. Thing is a few years later that kid shows up a hero somewhere, while "Mr. Perfect Example" is a self-absorbed slacker. It's like a box of chocolates ... You can only take an educated guess about what's inside. Leave the requirements alone. Changing them won't make a better Eagle. Be the guy's friend once he turns 18. That's what will give him strength and wealth.

Most of our boys spend more than the allotted time working on ranks. During that time they hold one or more PORs, more or less continuously. So, no, for the average boy in a youth-led unit that has lots of work to do to keep things fun and safe, demonstrating leadership is a matter of course. On rare occasion a POR can be a bad fit (e.g., the kid with lousy reading/organizational skills is a wreck as librarian), and it takes a boy trying a different position for things to come together. Sometimes it takes a while to get the confidence to take on that next job. We don't rush to create positions for boys, unless they ask us to do so. Sometimes life happens and an otherwise active boy can't participate for a couple months, then he comes back and is active again. Usually, it's the boy's decision, and most of the time he feels like he "never really did anything" in position X, so he wants to prove himself in position Y. I'd like to think we've seen it all, but I'm sure there's a kid out there that will have us scratching our heads before his star or life SMC!

Based on BD's last quote, I would strongly suspect the kid is putting words in the coach's mouth. With this info, I'd still suggest a word with the coach (in all your spar time), but with a much different tone. More along the lines "how can we support your team?".

Based on BD's last quote, I would strongly suspect the kid is putting words in the coach's mouth. With this info, I'd still suggest a word with the coach (in all your spar time), but with a much different tone. More along the lines "how can we support your team?".

Based on BD's last quote, I would strongly suspect the kid is putting words in the coach's mouth. With this info, I'd still suggest a word with the coach (in all your spar time), but with a much different tone. More along the lines "how can we support your team?".

IMHO, there are no destinations, only waypoints. I think I just found what I want carved on my tombstone.

Stosh's approach is a tough sell for a boy who sees his summer as his only spare time and camp as one more thing to get in the way of it. But it is better to make it clear to the boys that we are not ashamed about how we put them to work to tackle "cheerfulness challenges" that on a smaller scale reflect how they will have to deal with the rest of life. if they walk away, at least that last bit of guidance should stick with them. When a young marine comes up and tells you that the orienteering lessons you thought he had ignored came handy to him in "The Crucible", you kinda get that you're doing the right thing.

Treat your existing SPL like the leader you expect him to be. Where he's not living up to expectations, confront him in a civil manner. When you hear a PL wishing the troop would do something or other, tell him to talk to the SPL and see if they can come up with a plan to make it happen. And that capable boy who didn't get elected? Help him learn a little servant leadership. Meanwhile if the boys are having fun and an growing in the process, count it a success. In my opinion, SPL should not be seen as the highest youth POR. It is merely one of coordinator. PL is the "linchpin" position (maby followed by QM), and you need to do your best to make sure those boys are first class scouts in the truest sense of the word.

If you have an old uniform shirt, you can have a seamstress cut it down and use it to embroider the name on. I saw a troop who did this. The border and lettering were in red thread. The tag was sewn on above the right pocket.

Put the patch on someone's shoulder. Doesn't matter whose. FOS wants folks to know that there are donors in their midst. When another boy asks "How can I get a cool strip like that?" He should answer "Have your mom or dad toss a few bucks towards FOS." Viral marketing.

If only we were more gay and less religious .... Considering that the sodomites and godless want us to open the door to let them in, it must be worth something.

Not betrayal. But those "Eagle or bust" parents were the ones who blew the most smoke when our crew was starting. Fears that their son will be distracted by all "those girls," etc .... Well I kind of understand how they feel. And sometimes they're right. Sometimes a boy needs to learn to stick with something even when he's not feeling like it. In those cases I tell the boy that his folks just want him to get the most out of life. Sometimes the boy is already spread so thin, the parents don't realize that they are breeding the resentment that we leaders and coaches can cut with a knife even when words aren't said. In those cases, I've told the kid, "As long as you're not robbing liquor stores to buy drugs, I'll be proud of you."

BD all of the above. And, coming from a family who has cranked out collegiate and pro athletes, I can assure you that 1. Athletics needs scouting. It's very hard to fit both in, but when it happens it's awesome. 2. Little guys with speed are the worst opponents. Don't write your scout off. Proper weight and agility training will make him a menace. Get the boys to a game to cheer for his team.

I think it would be great for a boy to hear that Mr. SP thought he was den chief material. It really made me proud when I was given a chance to serve. (I may have been PL or SPL at the time.) Let the boy decide if he can committ. Then negotiate the position. We've had all manner of boys be DCs, some older brothers some not. Some of them just wanted another few nights of camp to go to.

Yep. This definitely falls under the category of the MBC has the right to do what he needs to make his/her class run smoothly. Boys that have issue with this can look for counselors on their own time (maybe with their patrol) who will give them the individualized instruction they need. By the way, RP, did the 11 y.o. pass his test and get to take the rest of the course?

Wow, MT. Thanks for the healthy dose of pessimism. I guess our units are charmed! Anyway, ask. Repeatedly. Even if no boy's available (or the one boy interested is a total slacker), it's worth trying. Otherwise, if you aim at nothing, you can be sure that's all you get.

Welcome, thanks for your service, and ... Get a Den Chief. An active boy scout will help with all that memorization your boys will need to learn. Plus, it's a potential connection to a boy scout troop that your boys may be interested in visiting. Have your Cubmaster contact a few neighboring troops to see if there is a boy who will qualify.