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Regarding uniforms, I understand that you are talking about the National field uniform. But, that $40 translates into two mornings with a climbing guide on some very challenging rocks just north of town. For a youth who probably already has a (boy/girl) scout uniform, fireman/EMT gear, their military uni (which is to take precedence at any formal scouting function anyway), and possibly a wife -- and baby on the way: why would I want him put his money in a shirt that he won't be wearing?

Well, I think this is where we do you youth a disservice. We've dissected "honor" from leadership. VOA should not be a mere leadership position. Every advisor should encourage the best members in their crew (even if they aren't officers) to contribute time to the VOA. They should really be an integral part of their council -- advising on everything from infrastructure to service projects, fundraisers and camporees .... Simply put, the best venturers, to be of better use to their crew, need to devote some time to hanging out with the best venturers of other crews and exchanging notes. The i

Understood, but E92 pointed out that OA may have boys who no longer are members of a troop, but since their BSA membership is current, by virtue of being in a crew or ship, they are still in the Order. Now maybe this is administrative oversight, or maybe noone wants to challenge a boy who went through his ordeal shows up and serves at meetings and conclaves and can pull a current membership card out of his pocket. But, it undermines the notion that the order exist solely so a boy could better serve his troop.

Here's a concept: why not have the boys do all of the planning? Adults arrange transport etc... Have the DL sit in the corner and tally advancement, or knit or something. Ask the boys if they are up for it and go from there.

Lessee ... $50 uniform ... $10 activity shirt and $40 in under armor, or a utility shirt and custom necker (full size, suitable for trading internationally) ... or a down-payment on your chain-mail. (Or matriculation deposit for college.) When it ain't your folk's money or their bills anymore, the equation changes. Wait! Hasn't anyone told you about the Venturing Leadership Awards? That's a fairly elite club. A broader group: Venturing Officers Associations. They are recommended by their advisors and elected by their peers. (Also, VOA's and have "OA" in the acronym. No sash, but epaulet

Had one MC refuse to get a uniform. And to a point I agree. There's nothing that a committee should be doing that would require them to be in uniform. However, CC's often do find themselves at roundtables and such and sometimes it is handy to be able to find that guy with the same patch on his sleeve. If you're that kind of CC, then maybe you want to have a different shirt. Otherwise, someone trying to be sincerely helpful may see you with your cub uni and direct your to the wrong room when it's your night to be in the break-out session for troops. If that kind of thing doesn't bother y

Agree with BD -- unless there's a kid who's going downhill fast. (E.g., since leaving cubs, folks passed away, he moved in with relatives in a different neighborhood, not making friends. You might want to offer his den to him as a way to reconnect with some old friends.) Otherwise, if the kids are having fun elsewhere, let them. And really, if you don't know what the families are doing already, there's something wrong with your community. You should have already crossed paths with these families at a parade, carnival, or the local pool. If you can't help yourself, a dozen post-cards

Had a great weekend comparing notes with some boys who were raised in the Czech Republic. Because scouting was outlawed during the cold war, their movement has a dearth of senior scouters. Den chief age youth operate as den leaders. Merit badge counselors: no such thing. Scoutmasters: 1 for 96 youth. The parents are hoping for the next generation will have more parents involved. From the enthusiasm of the boys, however, I kinda hope not. First thing they asked about my scouts' unis: where are your neckers?

Bring us back to why we should like the BSA (or not) ... "First reason why: Fruits of the Spirit (FotS) explicitly only applies to Christians. In the USA, only about 73-76% of the population self-identifies as Christian. So in the classroom, FotS would only apply to three-quarters of the students. What about the other 25%? You'd have to tell them that it doesn't apply to them, since they're not Christian. You would effectively be telling them that those ideals are not for them So what are you tell them to aspire to?" Putting aside how many Christians actually have a clue about the Fr

What you call anger, I'll take as a sincere attempt to save us from ourselves. Anyway, after making that snarky remark about "Sunday reading" I log off to go to church, and what chapter of the Bible is the preacher covering today? Yep, Ephesian's 5! So DW is simply doing God's work preparing me to receive his word today. For that I owe him thanks. Anyone who thinks otherwise can take it up with the Holy Spirit!

Thanks for the Sunday reading. Do zealots take things out of context? Yes. Am I a zealot? I don't think so. I have some vague familiarity with the law and Pauline epistles. In the passage you quote Paul is not excluding the pagans of his day from anything. Rather, he is dissuading folks from "playing the Jew" in hopes that a simple surgery will make them right with God. Or, that it would somehow make them a better Christians than those who aren't Jewish enough. Those many divisions you speak of were fomenting before Paul even started dictating his letters. But, your desire to put

Oh, I get the whole manipulative boys who were trained by manipulative parents thing. There's a balance between discouraging those types, and crushing someone who wades through 22 pages of workbook and misses a step on page 17! (Granted, council approval is mentioned in the BSHB, but what does that really mean to a 17y.o. who has never been to a roundtable?)

Winds ... it had to be winds ... It doesn't take much to "up the game". You and an ASM a could chaperon a patrol to some camping area or farm with maybe some good fishing nearby. You and your buddy could drop them off and then set up on the opposite side of the field. Put that out there to your son's PL. Don't use any of those "boy-led", "patrol method", "counts for advancement" buzzwords. Just give him a "Hey, you've been such a help to my son, I'd like to give you a chance to do something you can brag about to the rest of the troop. Why don't you float it by the SM?"

T2E, the counter-reformation is a grand part of that tradition. I'm sure some of the church board members think it's their turn to bring it about again! SMW, don't write off those travelling pastors. By virtue of their having moved around a lot, they can bring a truly catholic perspective to the picture. This summer, at an Eagle court of honor, I met one of the priests of a local Catholic CO. He was from Vietnam and had some unique scouting experiences as a child. I hope the troop will give him more opportunities to share in their program. The point is that for some people, you ha

To avoid seeming like cannibals, some also punctuate well. Let's eat, Grandma!

"EDGE is a teaching skill, but if the boy only teaches because he gains advancement, what's the big deal?" Resist. Resist. Resist. Can't do it ... EDGE undermines servant leadership from step 1. Explain. This presumes that you have something someone else can't get any other way. Now, that does happen from time to time. (For example for some fundamental process, you may come up with an English acronym that nobody else knows of and your Korean scout can't figure out!) In terms of scout skills, that simply isn't the case. Servant leadership says, "Let's find a common reference.

I think, stosh, what's happening is that more venturers are actually getting involved with their summer camps. Those that express interest see how the OA does a bang-up job of giving back to their camps, and they want to be part of that. Or they are Arrowmen who know a guy or gal and are thinking "This is great, why can't they be here too?"

Easy E441, dhendron paid good money for that VLST course. He has to get his money's worth! Venturers (who were never were officially "venture scouts," and were once-upon-a-time Explorers more interested in outdoor stuff than career exploration) want to be respected for who they are. What that means varies widely. Some (like evidently the ones you met) want to be in OA, others want to be trusted to help serve other BSA units, others don't want boy scouts demeaning the awards they earn, others want to be treated as a different program and don't want anything "scout" associated with them.

Like Paul said in the next sentence "Against such things there is no law." By implication every law is for such things. Reading the Bible so straightforwardly, however, might come as a disappointment to many "true Christians," who somehow got it into their heads (and DW's) that the concept is exclusive to their religion.

Let's hear it for district reps who take the BS out of the BSA!

Advancement just starts the first level of servant leadership ... 1. Learn to tie knots. Get a signature in a book. 2. Make sure everyone in your patrol can tie knots. 3. See somebody who is having trouble tying knots, show them how. 4. Walk around with a rope in your pocket, approach a stranger and say, "Hey check out this knot." 5. See something that needs built/repaired with knots, get your "knotty disciples" to build/fix it. ... x. Make the world a better place using your obsession with knots.

Some grandpas in our neighborhood are gonna be stoked as well. Got two this weekend. Your grandson's project sounds like something I wished one of our boys would have done. The park he fixed up was nice, but a little removed from his talents and interests.

I find that terribly disrespectful. I too was a member of a Catholic Troop that had the very same requirements; my boys and I are no longer members of that unit. We joined a Methodist Troop that respects our religious differences. There isn't anyone on the planet who hasn't heard the "good news," this means that if someone isn't Christian (or Catholic) it's because they choose not be. Our current SM is Catholic; he also left the Catholic Troop because he didn't like the policy of forcing religion on to others (He had this crazy idea that people were given free will for the purpose of

Yep, one or two on this forum have typed a harsh word in the heat of the moment. It might have exargerrated how badly you felt at the moment, but hopefully the replies it generates will be of use to some scouts and scouters down the road. Venturing is a heady brew. So is a week with a solid patrol-method troop. It's easy to lose patience with folks who don't have that vision. Learning how to be a little less blunt is an ongoing skill. And practicing "I'm sorry" and "I was wrong" is tough. (It got easier once I got married, but if I were you, I'd just practice in a mirror for a few mor

Sounds like a sinister plot to me.