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One more thing to consider ... some of us don't think SPL's are necessary until a troop has 4 or more patrols to coordinate. So, if we're right, you were effectively running for a position your troop didn't need. Your platform seemed to be making stronger patrols, which might just as simply be done by NOBODY being SPL and ASPL! Then the PLs and APLs would have to put forth real effort to keep the troop running. (E.g., they might have to rotate leading the meeting, set-up, and closing.) If that is true, then if, because of tradition, everyone is insisting that there be SPL/ASPL then you onl

In our general interest crew, some really good neighbors ... Sportsman's Club Owner/NRA Range Safety Officer Ex-Military Officer/Climbing Enthusiast Roofer/Climbing Enthusiast Mom who teaches the girls backpacking hygiene. Cub/boy-scout moms willing to camp with us (even though their kids aren't venturers). Coffee shop owner. (Sure, I make can espresso anywhere, but I ain't accomodating each venturer's favorite mocha-java-mango-vanilla-latte.) Historic cemetery CEO with 2400 military grave markers. (Gives us a district-wide service project to manage some evening before Memori

Well, you lose some, and then you lose some. That smarts, but once you get beyond the discouragement, you need to relax and think about what didn't appeal to the younger boys. Personnally, I think a 6 minute speech would have turned me off! But here are some things that I've seen to be off-putting in other boys ... Incessant practical jokes. Cussing and off color jokes. Obsession with the opposite sex. Lack of troop pride. Only shakes some boys' hands before meeting starts. Chances are you can come up with one or two others that may or may not apply. Then you need to decide if you need to wo

Think of it this way: once the boys complete this hike, would you be comfortable with them doing the same thing on their own in any other environment you all hike in throughout the year? Personally, I know I can get lost using a map with street names ... I know how to "get found," and it usually relies on my ability to find north and orient the map. So there is some method to your madness.

I can't imagine SM minding you stepping in on this. (Especially if parents are giving him cross-talk.) I've unilaterally altered hike plans when I realized the PLC wanted to wrap it up after 3 miles while the youngn's wanted (and were fit) to hike at least twice that. SM and ASMs didn't balk (I knew they wouldn't, unless there was a serious issue that I hadn't considered.) My line: "When you get home, you can cry to Momma that Mr. Q made you hike the whole afternoon and kept you from idling away at camp. Let me know what she says."

And ... none of them have to run for O/A. Make it very clear to the BOYS that it should not count for their camping nights. Don't explain it to them. Have them REFER to THE BOOK. List their campouts. Cross off any that don't match the requirements. Make it clear that their list is on their honor. *Reference* the first step in learning any scout skill -- including tracking advancement. And yes, as IH, you have the right to do that because your people are paying for the roof and the lights. Make it clear that you are perfectly fine with them not having a program that giv

Your best strategy for roundtables: always bring someone from your committee along. That way there is overlap in case you miss something. Moreover, there's someone on the ride home who can help you sift through any ideas that were bantered about. Yes, BALOO for an Eagle really is flagellation with a wet noodle. Thanks for your service, and enjoy those outings with your son.

I think "first book" was intended instead of "first chapter". And that's part of what Genesis offers ... That no matter how incredible God may be, Man is equally incredible, "imperfect" has become too polite of a term. Man breaks covenants, destroys relationships, kills then boasts about it, gets rescued from calamity then curses his sons while drunk, builds absurd monuments to his greatness, sneaks around, negotiates compromises, assaults angels, or while being rescued by angles disdains their advice, builds absurd patriarchies that drive females to acts against their own bodies. In

If the bridge any longer, you guys would be in trouble for digging too deep a trench so the rope would hang freely! Pity you didn't interpret G2SS the way these folks did: Or these guys:

Congratulations to scout for planning an awesome day! Make sure he arranges for sufficient coffee and snacks for the two adults who will wait for them patiently back at camp.

All the best with the new charter! "Even the non-scout members of the crew, i.e. the gals!, will eventually ask the question, why do we always have to check with the troop before we plan an activity?" Yep. After a year of trying to work around each others' schedules, the SM and I looked at each other and concluded "This is ridiculous!" There would always be postponements that would cause our schedules to overlap anyway. When that happened the kids sorted it out. THEY made sure the necessary leadership was divided appropriately. (More often than not, the SPL and PL's would stick with t

E92, you do know that I did not intend to pick on you personally? Of course every DE is different, and some can sift through the smoke because they've experience scouting on most of its many levels. E441, to your points: 1. Varisty: no women. Typically in our area, the sports crews are ski clubs or specialty sports. 2. Sea scouts: they would be who I would send my crew to call if they wanted a barge. They would come to my venturers if they want to backpack. My point exactly. 3. Not sure what happens in your neck of the woods, but I know of no church youth group that is truly youth

"The failing of troops to provide a good older scout program motivates the adults to start venturing crews as a way to keep the older scouts in the program. " Our crew started for the opposite reason. The troop was providing a good older scout program. Then Son #1 and his thirteen y.o. buddies go blabbing at school about what a great time they were going to have at Seabase in a couple of years. The girl scouts at the table wanted in on the gig. The only way it was possible was if they went with a crew. The youth discovered they liked working together, and it kept going. It was the

Thanks E92. What I'm trying to fish for here is precedent where the OA considers a youth who was not member of a troop was still retained as an Arrowman. So, were you are any of your youth ship mates or any of the young summer camp crew *not* registered with a troop?

It's the SM's call. The way I would do it: If there are bunks and mattress set up in an alcove, electric lighting supplied, it wouldn't count. If the boys are to find there way to a room in the cave where they are supposed to set up their bedding in an appropriate leave-no-trace manner, it would count. Now maybe the bunks were put there to protect the cave floor, in which case I might be inclined to count it.

"... They shouldn't call themselves a BSA Venture Crew ..." They don't. The call themselves Venturing crews!!! Look, I am constantly talking my crew down off of that soapbox. Just because we'd rather hike a few miles into camp, dig our own latrines, maybe set up a tent, then drop off cliffs or shoot trap the next day, doesn't mean we can't benefit from crews with other emphases. When dozens of crews gather for an Area Summit, there's lots to do. Sure, my youth will have a warm fire in some clearing -- rain or snow, but ... Who's gonna decorate the dining hall for the dance the next

Don't disrespect the role-playing crews. One of my scouts fell in with a live-action role playing (LARP) group and is having a great time. (Theatre major, go figure.) The boy Eagled and aged out from our troop this year. Then when our Area Venturing Officers Association was having a "Knights of Independence" theme, a LARPing crew helped organize some camp-wide games. It's not a problem if a crew's super-activities don't touch on HA. It is a problem if crews aren't gathering to mash-up ideas and activities. HA is fun. HA with swords and chainmail = ridiculous fun.

So if a boy transfers from a troop to a crew, does he lose his OA membership? If so, how would you enforce it, and has anyone tried? If not, then do we have a precedent of allowing venturers to be arrowmen?

Stosh, I understand the potential to draw top leaders, and have heard earfuls from adults worrying about it. But, as a youth I was a top leader, and was not distracted by explorers. So I always took the fears of naysayers with a grain of salt. Half of our troop's top youth leaders don't bother with our crew. The other half are in the crew AND lead the troop. Several of our events (backpacking, service projects) include the troop. Seeing other youth organize activities in our crew and other crews enabled our SPL's to put together more troop programs without adult meddling. It seems that

To be honest, thinking back on lashing the second and third story of our summer camp tower in my youth, part of my adrenaline pump is screaming "hardhat on, 'biner in!"

Different troops have different visions for their summer camp. Ours is to return to the exact same spot year after year!

Regardless of who gets elected, you'll be able to help with the discussion among the responsible boys in your troop. You've clearly been putting a lot of thought into this. Definitely try to change your camping arrangements. Your adults are on the right track. Ideally, you put the patrol sites on opposite sides of the adult site with at least a stones throw between sites. Don't worry about that patrol of three. They'll be fine. Some hints: you don't always need a fly. One three-man tent sets up in a hurry. Single burner stove can cook up soup for three easily. The best way to get

It's a rare troop that will tolerate a crew operating in lock-step with the troop. There is often an adult (sometimes a youth, either boy scout or venturer) that will generate sour grapes. Someone will demand a separate space (or time-slot) for meetings. My crew meets twice a month. When the troop is meeting that day, we schedule the crew meeting for the 1/2 hour after the troop adjourns. The youth are what we call a "general interest crew". I.e., pretty much into the same things as the troop. We leave it up to the troop SPL and Crew president to determine which weekends will be shared

My troop is similar. You'll find lots of discussion about this on the previous version of this site (http://old.scouter.com/). Here a couple of the items that I've gleaned from it all ... When you go camping, how far apart are the patrols from each other and the adult leaders? In an open field, they should be a football fields distance apart. Now, sometimes in the tortuous hills where you and I live, that's not that practical. But the idea is that as patrols get used to living with each other at a distance apart (only coming together for assemblies or emergencies), they'll get it in