qwazse

You gotta take your boys as they come to you. But there are things you can do to encourage behavior in a particular direction. One thing is at the end of each achievement have the boys vote on whose project they like the best. Have a "most popular project" sticker. Or, have the winner pick the snack that will be served at the next meeting (if you do that sort of thing).

This has always mystified me. One GS troop in my community is extremely active, great organizers, girls I've repeatedly invited to my crew (either directly or through their friends who were venturers). Problem is: plumbing. They know outings with us may be closer to latrine than shower-house. Home to me is where cellphones show zero bars, and I try to get back there as often as I can. Could I dumb things down? Yes, but that would do a disservice to the girls who were brought up in troops (like my co-advisor's) who learned to tough it out.

For what it's worth, Venturing awards and recognition program may move to a more personal growth model. I really don't know what that means because the requirements (especially gold and silver award requirements) sound an aweful lot like personal growth.

My friend whose son just joined a pack as a Webelos is a good example of this. They are spiritual but not religious and do not belong to an church. The den leader is insisting that every scout earn the religious medal for requirement 8 because 'that is how we do it in our pack.' So the family has a choice, pull out of scouting or join a church to fulfill the requirement. Neither accomplishes the goal of the requirement. I see it as just another way BSA is used to support discrimination. DL's have insisted all manner of things upon me and my kids -- from having planning meetings during siesta to saying hand made neckerchief slides are out of uniform, to reversing the last hitch in my taught line. In all cases I ignored without making a fuss. a. during seista made a bee-line for the tent, kept flaps up, pulled hat over my eyes. b. put the slide my son and I made on necker, politely gathered those central supply slides that kept falling off their active little owner. c. twanged my lines, making sure they were still taught. Passive aggressive? A little. Pay for my shrink and we'll hash it out. Meanwhile, nothing in the book against it. If I were your friend, I just wouldn't go after the requirement unless little junior really wants to try church. "We prayed about it, and felt led to not adorn ourselves with graven images of religious symbols ...."

SSScout, how is particular kerfuffle any different than our threads about knots or catapults? Helping youth get their heads around religion (first their parents', then their own, then others') is part of the program.

Knowing your boys also comes into play here. If they are science/mechanic types, maybe you want to do that catapult with no-nonsense materials and standard weights so the boys can test the effect of longer vs. shorter arms, stationary vs. mounted on wheels, cup vs. sling. In which case, there's little room for art and craftsmanship. The thought of waiting to fire their product while the paint dries will drive them nuts! You'd best do the other requirements with a different project on a different night. With son #1's den we hustled up and built rockets to launch in one day. Nobody thought about artistry. With son #2's den we focused on individuality of design. I don't even recall if everyone completed their rocket.

Note to Randy the OP, if you're in the middle of a Country Western song like JP describes, just dusting your hands of the entire affair may be the way to go. JP, hate to say it, but big ego's don't easily deflate. Never heard of an SM picking the board. We only let MCs and community leaders sit on BORs (no ASMs). But, this kind of thing can go on a long time if the unit likes their apple cart. You're better off dusting of your boots and serving elsewhere. They'll call you when they need someone to cook up them prickly pears proper.

Yes, you can overlap, but you really need to be sure you're following the spirit of the requirements. If the catapult beam was sanded and stained, mounted with with a dowel jigged fulcrum, bearing a coat of arms, and the missiles were hand carved from granite, then yes, credit the boy for all three (engineering, craftsman, and art). This kind of thing works well for units that have a scout house where boys can keep their projects and pull them out every week to refine them. If the boys aren't picking up the skills intended in the requirements, then a DL is short-changing them. But, sometimes doubling up increases the creativity and pride a boy puts into his work.

I don't think retention is the issue. (By the percentages venturing is the fastest declining division.) I do think there is a lot to be learned about the female side of Indian lore. Many of the tribes around here were/are matriarchal. So much so, that European women, when captured in raids, often retained their new-found Native American identity. But, because lodges don't recruit from girl scouts or venturing, they miss out on young people discovering that aspect of our indigenous cultures.

A) Not because any given couple is "good", but because the institution is worth upholding. B) there is (was) such a thing as common law. But if parents are making a mockery of marriage, why should they expect accommodation? C) Jake and Dan can't be leaders.

Oh, I forgot to mention that standing your ground can sometimes wind up with you finding yourself with a little more free time.

E441 can speak for his troop, but I find this is how scouts naturally divide.There's a lot of pride in building your own stick shelter. And really, newbies don't need a whole lot of supervision for this sort of thing. Give 'em a book with pictures of shelters, and they'll be just fine.

I see two options for the OP, Decline participation in the BOR making clear that your understanding of the boy's character doesn't warrant a BOR. Participate, express your reservations to the boy, and ask him to explain how you may be mistaken. I would only suggest this to a scouter who has worked with a lot of boys and sat in on a number of BORs.

Depends. Kids who play soccer or run cross-country year round aren't such an issue. I do like to get newbs to try an afternoon hike with their gear to get their gear shaken down. Kids who only hike their avatars playing Skyrim and don't try out their equipment either drag the contingent down, or hit "the wall" at about mile six on a seven mile hike.

Stockpiling books is generally a bad idea. Boys barely read the current editions, and there are constant revisions. Uniforms, on the other hand ... once official always official, so it is a good idea to have a drive for gently used unis. (Yes I know what age range we're talking about, but it happens.) Discourage the use of "patch magic" and other heat-transfers that would ruin a shirt for the next kid. Create a "hand it down" culture ... especially with the neckerchiefs. Never tried it myself, but wish I had: At the end of the year, have a bridging ceremony where each scout signs/stamps/or somehow tags his necker and hands to a boy moving into the next rank. After a few years, have some kind of recognition for the boy with the "most signed" necker. Or maybe try to see if you can find cubs with four neckers with the same boy's name on it, get the cubs to all pose in the same picture, then send it to the boy with a big "thank you". Who knows? If the boy is no longer a scout, it might just make him reconsider.

Thanks, nice to know that when I suggest folks from a troop take it, it will work for them!

I wouldn't worry about a pack's longevity as much about how the boys in your area being served. If all the first graders joined another pack, fine. If they all signed up for Trail Life early, okay maybe. No 1st grader got signed up for anything, that's sad.

Agree this is one where the boy needs to understand that the next step for him is not another troop, it's juvy. Letting him stay is out of the question. Letting him know that you've talked to other SMs who, for the sake of their boys who don't want to be objects of rage, who would not countenance a violent kid in their unit.

He had already racked up the POR time, did his project, had to do a few MBs.

They have units in some detention centers. I know of one boy who was served well by it being available to him.

From here in the cheap seats, it sounds like CM alarab should move to the commissioner corps and transfer to the pack who is asking for help, registering as its UC. Eventually, when the dust settles with the current pack, he/she could UC that one, if asked. Regardless, it's entirely possible that several packs could benefit from that seasoned leadership. The only catch is sometimes UCs do better at a distance (i.e., when their own family members are not in the Packs they are serving). I'll let the former district key-3s among us opine further as to the merits of such a move.

Technically, "heathen" refers to the Scottish "people of the heath" who used to raid Roman settlements for food. So I guess it depends on how often you go to an Italian restaurant and order in a brogue accent.

From other post, CC is COR, and is pressing to remove the CM. alarab, sounds like you will have to accept change. You parents could talk to the institutional head, and request a different COR. But, that doesn't always turn out well either. DE's usually don't meddle in the affairs of the institution. It should be considered a real embarrassment when they show up at a unit meeting for something other than asking for money!

No your Missing the Point. Order of the Arrow was started to keep the Older Youth involved in scouting. To Give scouts who at the time had reached the Highest Rank Time (First Class Scout) something to do. To Offer Opportunity to socialize and Serve at the Same time. You would make all Youths suffer based on Your poor Lodge ? I see Oa as a Whole folding because of Lack of Participation unless they start Doing stuff besides requiring Membership to WORK WORK WORK. Lodges that survive and Thrive have Fellowships..be it Movie Nights, Pizza Parties, Camping Trips, and other social Events. There is More to OA EVENTS than just dressing up as "INDIANS". Last SR2-3N Conclave we Had Tug-a-war, Dodge Ball, Archery, Rifle Shooting, Even shot off a Cannon. We had Banana Split Eating Contest, We had someone Bring out a Collection of King Snakes, We carved a Totem to be placed at the Camp. Yes the was a Pow Wow for the Dancers, however the was a Ice Cream social at the same time for the NonDancers. Everyone was not forced to participate in the Pow Wow. Nor was everyone forced to take part in the Ceremonies competition. Maybe we need to Organize a National Camping Society inside scouting for those who like to Camp and Not Dress Like Indians or a National BBQ Society in side for Scouting for those who like to BBQ instead of Dressing Like Indians or a Zoological Society for those who Like Animals instead of Dressing like Indians or a Civil War society for scouts who want to Dress like Soldiers instead or we could continue with just one Honor Society, adapt and allow the Youths to participate and Socialize. Embrace the Membership and Welcome New Membership with Fellowship, not just Hard Labor all the Time. National OA is always considering closing poor Lodges..there is a Reason Lodges Fail, just ask Membership who have stopped coming why they did. The biggest Reason BOREDOM KDD, that ordeal weekend is the one thing that interests our boys in OA. They eat up the opportunity for a unique personal challenge. For most of them it's not the meager rations, hard work, or night under the stars, but the 24 hours in silence that was the real challenge.

It could be entirely possible you got a bunch of guys who mesh well together, and they truly cannot envision one combination better than the other. It's more likely there is a little oil-and-water, but because they haven't made much effort to work as tight patrols, they've avoided the adversity of having to deal with a bad mix. (Kinda the difference between shacking up and tying the knot, only less dramatic -- although with some of my boys, I wondered.) If you get no other input, sort them by age to the day (then alphabetically) and count off. Show the older boys the results. If neither they or the direct-contact adults see any "ticking bombs, " run with it for 6 months. That should give you and the boys a chance to switch up before summer camp, maybe even before taking on any cross-overs.