qwazse

Welcome to the forums @Schneffler! I think your PLC might be over. But for future reference, you never have to be creative again! I happen to know of a list of 136 possible topics that scouters have found to be of interest to young boys. For each of those topics, you all could probably find an adult to come talk to your troop about it. (In fact, your scoutmaster might already have a list of names of people you all could call for each topic.) but what's more, for each topic there's a list of things that you could "explain", "discuss", or "do". You could spend your entire career as a scout going down this list! It used to be that this list of topics could be had for the price of a handbook, and the things to do for each topic could be had for the price of a pamphlet. But since you seem to have a working browser, you can have that list of cool topics here: http://www.scouting.org/meritbadges.aspx The best part? If you or one of your scouts play your cards (as in blue cards) right, there's a patch you can earn!

"But Mr. @@TAHAWK, Wilderness Survival and Pioneering are not Eagle required. Why should we bother?" Two words son: Catapults Ignition

Interesting to note: "lead" is not in the definition (Webster's or Oxford's) of "run". Adults may play on that and limit "leadership" to the decision-making process. Once boys make up their minds, adults jump through all of the hoops to make it happen. They "run" the program. @@Stosh, no doubt you can expound on how this may conform to a Gnostic ideal. (No offense to any devout Gnostics out there.) A simple example is the Tour Plan ... For a while, I was having my crew president fill it out and give the finished product for review, which I would sign. However, now that that monstrosity is online, the default operation is clearly for an adult (key-three) to operate. Set aside any IT problems there may be with bringing SPLs up to speed with his scouter accounts, etc ... it's quite clear that the design of the tour plan -- even as a piece of paper -- was such that a PL or SPL would never see it. There are definitely troops out there where adults lead (tasking scouts with X, Y, and Z), and they leave it to boys to run everything. I've had my boys' SM's slip into that mode unnecessarily. But, I would say that most scouters, when pressed, envision something that's boy-led/adult-run. They simply can't imagine a youth being concerned about the make, model, and insurance coverage of a driver's vehicle. (Although ... I found that many 16 year-olds are very much attune to such things!) What many adults fail to reflect on is that every task that they run is a squandered opportunity for a boy to lead. So, if you get adults to reflect on the tasks they've taken on ... you're more likely to get them to see the value of a boy exercising leadership via service. When they value service as leadership you then can move everyone to "boy led and run."

Do you, one of your relatives, one of your friends, or a boss have property suitable for 8 boys and a couple of adults (at a slight distance) to camp on? "Hey, I know a great location for your first patrol outing. As soon as you can convince the SM that you've got a good plan!"

There's also cost. It's a better learning experience if he saves up to pay a large part (if not all) of the trip. This may mean managing money, building a track record of perfect grades, or just being significantly more responsible for the family's chores over several years' time. Also, he'd have to rush to earn First Class. Now he may be a kid who naturally advances to that point in a year. But, if he's not, he'll feel pushed along. I've seen too many scouts in such situations quit.

For more than three years, our NSP was a "no scout patrol" -- no crossovers 'cept younger brothers who just fit in to a one patrol troop. By the end of last year our youngest scout was 14. Now we merged with the other troop who was garnering the bulk of the community's Webelos. Only a few of their boys (close friends of our scouts) were between 15 and 16. So, 3 patrols are somewhere between ages 12 and 14. The older boys are kind of in the patrols, kind of in a leadership corps, and kinda in a venturing crew. They are doing a decent job of determining program, instructing, and bringing the young PL's up to speed. Anyway, the plan is to let cross-overs be a NSP for about 6 months until everyone gets to know everyone else. We are providing two options for summer camp (one to the west - dining hall, one to the east - patrol cooking) on the same week, so that might influence how things settle out. We are flush with adults. Our challenge is to get them to back off. Adults of young scouts are helicopterish, adults of older our alumni scouts are critical of how rough the young ones do things. I really like the new SM. I myself am beginning to feel like I can stop worrying about the troop and focus on the crew.

So, how integrated are the new starters? Have they sort of settled into a patrol yet? Gone on several trips? Know the rest of the troop (at least by name)? I think part of the decision about mixing things up hinges on how cohesive your existing patrols are. Over here, that's often a function of mutual activities and clique's that form outside of the scout house. If they aren't very cohesive you might want to encourage the new scouts to hang with a different patrol each meeting, then allow everyone to draw their lines at the end of school. If they are very cohesive, you might want to have each couple of scouts settle on their patrol (or, the patrols settle on their scouts) as they join. Patrol A takes the first lot, patrol B the second, etc ...

I consider blw2's opinions to be a demonstration of what one can learn about the patrol method from current sources -- outside of being in a couple of troops and watching their patrols morph over the years. What would be nice, for him, is if a few adults in the troops were reading those same sources.

From Laurel Highland's Council (about four hours from Beckly) the cost is $1450. But that is just 5-6 hours away (depending on where from the council the coaches depart). And, since we can to D.C. anytime, there is no reason for an extra week of touring. I kind of regret that Jamborees no longer rotate location so that scouts in different parts have a chance at lower costs.

It sounds like your Young Leaders are Junior Assistant Scoutmasters (or cubmasters or den leaders), a.k.a. JASM. It was a huge deal to achieve this position in my youth. On this side of the pond, in recent years, the value of the position is often questioned (see http://scouter.com/index.php/topic/25960-pros-and-cons-of-the-junior-assistant-scoutmaster-position/). I think that is because troops have accumulated so many adult assistant scoutmasters (and packs, cubmasters and den leaders) that they "muscle out" the youth who would fill this gap. the "Instructor" position specifically defines what we'd expect from most older youth. there are Venturing crews to found, O/A chapters to facilitate, and a profusion of other opportunities for that age group under the scouting umbrella. There is no JASM corps.

I train my venturers to never count what didn't happen, That's the path to discouragement. Four adults wanted to hear from you. Huzzah! One who will be the boy's sales coach? Ka-Ching! ASMs ... tell your CC his job #1 is to get them trained. Especially about boy-led. You are young enough to remember the times that adults breathing down the back of your neck made you unhappy or adults doing things for you made you lazy. 'Nuff said. Some here are gonna throw red flags ... about the family camping. It's a compromise you are willing to make. Just remember the boys didn't sign on to be babysitters. Many of them did sign on to get out from under the 'rents! Make sure they set up camp far away (as in football field or the next hollow over) from your family site. This may mean having to reserve two sites if you are going to a standard boy scout camp. Talk to your rangers and ask them what they think would work best. Maybe everyone meets for morning flags and reveille, but that's about it. about MB classes during meetings. Keep those to a minimum and only if the boys ask to do one. Make sure they can't get signed off all at once at the last class. They can get the counselor's phone # and meet with him/her on their own time (our troop allows that to be a break-out session during our meeting) to wrap things up. All those "tell","explain","do" requirements should be done no more than a couple of boys at a time with a counselor. Less worksheets = more fun. The reason you discuss an MB during the meeting is to plan an activity related to the badge (e.g., skype with a scout in another country). Good scouting to you. And really, you're gonna owe the Mrs. big time. So put aside $$!

Our newly merged troop is basically that. The older scouts are effectively their own patrol. All of the elected patrol leaders were 12 or 13. So even if there is an older boy, he tries to keep mum to give the PL a chance to shine. It looks like the Webelos den will crossover as a new scout patrol. Mainly because there's a couple of those 13 year olds who might like to try their hand at guiding them. You have the nuance of both sexes being in the troop. I don't know if that makes letting the kids settle their arrangement any easier or harder. Might be a good idea to invite some of your soon-to-be-explorers out for lunch and have them remind you what it was like coming up. They might have some stories of things that were formative for them that you didn't notice at the time. It's best to learn from the experts.

Not proposing getting rid of the blue card. For councils that don't do internet advancement, a boy could upload an image of his completed application. But even if that kind of validation is too expensive of a feature, the goal isn't necessarily to require every scout to give feedback on the MB, but to get as many as possible with means and interest on board. However, now that I think of it, smart reader technology -- where SMs upload a picture of a table full of unit copies of the week's blue cards to order MBs -- would be a killer app.

SM asked me last night about MB classes during the meeting ... mainly because at roundtable a seasoned SM did a presentation on how their trooped acquired MBCs and ran all of their counseling for every required badge in-house. Meetings were mainly merit badge classes. I gave him my low opinion of such a strategy. (Yes, ask the PLC if they'd like to call someone to present on an MB they'd like to learn more about. No, don't expect them to work on it and earn it during meetings. Especially when most of the boys are still working towards 1st Class, and, the older boys -- although cliquish -- are still coming to meetings without us serving up busy-work for them.) I think he was relieved that I saw no need to "keep up with the Joneses." With overt pressure to squander boys' leadership opportunities (taking your own initiative in your own rank advancement being a form of self-leadership), it's no wonder that troops feel pressured to set aside or give lip service to the patrol method.

I continue to be astounded by the inability to maximally grasp the power of crowd-sourcing. The task force could ... Develop a secure online-forum for each MB. Charge $1 via scout account to apply for online materials for a specific MB. (Which would be a click-through from the requirements page on scouting.) On a rotating basis, open a few MBs per year for comment and review. Each proposed new paragraph/image/video gets "up" or "down" voted by registered counselors. (A users' right to vote is contingent on completing whatever MBC training BSA deems appropriate. Vote's might be rated by the number of scouts counseled in that badge.) Scouts earn the right to a vote by earning the respective MB and 1st Class (recorded on internet advancement) and maintaining their registration. Parts that are "most helpful" get incorporated in the new materials. The login might come with permission to request a hard-copy from your service center. Charge $1 for cost-effective printed hard-copy pamphlets (grayscale covers). These could be produced on demand at the national scout shops -- possibly even at most camp trading posts! On-demand copies would have a code and a login instructions granting access to the interactive site.

Only as stable as the scouts' ability to avoid any mention of "chariot" and "race."

Their best option is to get in a room and sort it out. Maybe after one or two events where they are guests of each patrol, maybe right now because they are done being everyone's guests! Your son's really good friend may be itching to start a new patrol, so him and a buddy might brazenly start with the four of them and see if there's another one or two who will come along. But, some of those scouts might be aging out. Or some might be itching to band together for some super-activity. (E.g., they signed up for hike-a-month club to condition for Philmont.) So the landscape will always look much different from the little-boots-on-the-ground perspective than it does on paper.

@@gumbymaster that sounds like a great idea (if someone would volunteer the tech to support it)! That answers how we get 1000 scouters/parents in the audience. Rather than a single day session, this operates (from the audience's perspective) over several sessions per month. I think that gives users a chance to get comfortable and experience the reality that real patrols take time to come together. The simulation should end after a month or two. This also simulates a scout's tenure. The time online and with whom (your patrol vs. your PLC) should be managed. This simulates a scout's availability for meetings. I could see "infinite room" being managed by only allowing you to choose patrol mates from among the nearest 40 people who start the course about the same time you do. (I.e., every 40 registrants is in a troop.) The downside is being sure your virtual patrol mates are committed. However, that's the risk that every scout faces as he joins his patrol. The challenges would have to be virtual, but may involve something like uploaded taking pictures of your gear (a la tenderfoot requirements) or the results of a service project. Here's a kicker: maybe a patrol's results should be judged by scouts taking NYLT! They get to up-vote patrols they admire. The closing lessons for each patrol would involve after action review, and how much they'd like to see something like this for their boys in real space.

Nice. It's good that folks want to give you a listen. Keep in mind, if fundraising (or any other project) gets tossed back to you ... it's you and the boys. They can take as much responsibility as you need them to (probably all of it with your oversight). Salesmanship is still a merit badge. Before the meeting actually starts, challenge the PL to have an opening activity for for the boys. He might have a favorite, or provide two 5 gallon buckets, a length of bull rope and boys challenge each other two at a time to pull each other off their respective bucket. This will give you time to introduce yourself to the parents one-on-one as they arrive. As far as the meeting, my strategy with small groups of boys is to unfold a road map or state trail map, and have them discuss the where, when, and how. Hopefully once you start they can keep it going on their own and get back to chatting with adults. As a parent, my trust grows as I meet leaders and watch them interact with my kids. So, you want to show a little of each in the meeting.

@@Blackcat, thanks for the post! You may have answered your question, but we're starting to make it fun! The perfect acronym is ruined. T2F made good shorthand for the rank names and "Trail to First Class". When I see S-FC, my cobwebbed mind goes to "Star or First Class". Maybe Sc-Fi? Oh wait, nevermind.

Page 2 of http://www.scouting.org/filestore/boyscouts/pdf/524-012_BS_Requirements.pdf The requirements for the Scout, Tenderfoot, Second Class, and First Class ranks may be worked on simultaneously; however, these ranks must be earned in sequence. So, yes if your son is into knots, he can master them while he's still trying to memorize the oath and law ... and if his PL is doing sign-offs on timber hitches, the boy can demonstrate them and get that signature in his book!

Hmmm, let$ think if there'$ a rea$on. The "on record" reason boiled down to increasing adversarial action by the New York district attorney if we applied the membership standard to camp employees. A test case was in the works. Lose a state, or change your standards. Furthermore, national's legal team foresaw other states lining up legal action. The awareness that, at every turn, concessions were given up grudgingly no doubt contributes to tepid enthusiasm that those with a permissive sexual ethic may have towards signing up their youth to our movement.

Simply put: they don't believe national TV campaigns will give sufficient return on investment. I'm inclined to agree. E.g., that add from the 1970's ... was at the start of a the steady membership decline.

It ain't Koolaid so much as it is hearty broth. Won't taste great, takes longer to stir and cook, but carries you further. Sounds like some boys need to learn to trust one another and themselves rather than their electronic devices. Joe Bob, yours are among the PLs who I would love to have on my "dream team" panel. The other piece of the puzzle, if I had time to give it, would be reports from the non-scout adults (teachers, coaches, youth leaders) in your boys lives. The audience needs to understand the good, the bad, and the ugly if they are to commit years of their lives to it for their boys. You know, I haven't sold too many expensive things myself in my life ... a couple used cars and a house. But I learned that I could close the deal at the fair price I wanted if I was brutally honest about what ailed the merchandise, and if I was willing to patiently turn down low-ball offers. I proposed to my girlfriend when she didn't have her makeup on. (We were snowed in, which is probably why I'm remembering it now.) We're selling the world boys who will be inculcated with trustworthiness (among other things) by the time they reach adulthood. But the cost is a little hunger, failure, discouragement, and hard climbs from deep valleys along the way.

Agree there is nothing nebulous to this. That's why boys (at least the ones we admire) love it. What is difficult is increasing the trust that the boys can do it. The only way I can think of overcoming this difficulty is presenting such boys to sceptical adults. (And, sometimes, to other skeptical boys.)