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Okay, so you discover a youth who should have a skill, but does not. (Honestly, I'm not so bothered about some knot as I would be about say a 1st class scout who is afraid of the water, or can't pick out the log that would be long enough to cross a ravine, but that's just me.) This may be at an SMC or on some other occasion. What do you do? Who do you talk to?

This was for their safety. A three mile course built by the park service before starting the seven mile backpack gave the advisor and his dog a much needed nap. More seriously, they must overcome land navigation deficits before I risk their hides back-country. I've made it quite clear that the principle is long leash. To shoot for mountains, master foothills. I provided options. The alternative was to find a series of caches in the general direction of camp, and after the last one have a "modest bushwhack" over a ridge into the destination valley. Or they could have arranged any alternate route of their choosing. Anything except dawdling along half the distance with boy scouts. Finally, the hike (in its generalities) was chosen by the Crew President.

Our troop has approached UCs with animus. It wasn't a problem with being a council "toady". We like our council. Council/area presidents camp with us, and SEs pay our camps visits. On occasion, our high praise lets some of those pro's move on to be CSE's. (You're welcome.) And, even down to the boys, we love them. If anything, the rest of us are "toadies." But one person rubs the other the wrong way, someone feels pushed around, and sparks fly. So, the commissioner corps has kept it's distance. Thanks to those kerfuffles, I've actually had to work to bring my Crew's newly assigned UC in the loop. It's not ideal. But at least it's improving.

@@417Scouter, I honestly wouldn't take issue if he was doing something in uniform with a bunch of boys. But, this sure does sound a little "staged". If it really bugs you, put in a call to the council headquaters and let your SE know. He/she will probably call the campaign. It amounts to a slap on the wrist. But, if they know their stunt was offended more than it helped, they may change strategy next time. That is, until they're behind in the polls again.

To file away for when each of us are old gentleman or ladies ... To be fair, the policy is quite new. It is a response to the small percentage of older scouts who've attended World Jamborees or who have had spent some time with scouts from around the world. As you can tell in Bryan's blog, it is not without its detractors. In fact, we were discussing uniforming at our last round-table boy scout breakout, and I didn't bring the neckerchief exception up. Until it is the dress code for mid-day activities at summer camp, council service projects, etc ... leaders won't be convinced there is any merit to it.

The best way, IMHO is to have the boys present that 40th charter to your CO at some public function. (Our CO is a church, so Scout Sunday is the date of choice.) A photo opportunity with members of the sponsoring organization and the boys would make for a human interest story in the local paper. As always with Packs, keep it simple make it fun. Do you have a roster from that first charter? Any of those make Eagle? Still in town or able to visit? Scouts would love to hear from those adults. A quick story about their favorite cub scout memory at the pack meeting (or if you have a number of guys, one could visit each den) the month you plan to present the charter would help to get more boys into the presentation.

Next step: buzz. Word has to get out to their friends about what went on (good, bad, and just plain silly).

If I were to guess, the former CM is now Charter Organization Rep (COR). That's why his signature matters. He probably wanted to be sure that the new CM had his ducks in a row, because at the end of the year, if he's not trained the charter gets kicked back from BSA national. Keeping leaders trained has been increasingly challenging, and some councils are more demanding that this happens than others. If I were you, I would line up fun things for your den. Look for help from each of the parents, not just your co-leader. Ask each one to take on "leading" the special activity. Boys invest quickly in any friends they make. Leverage that investment. Pack events then become a side show.

Yesterday Son #1 and I were helping each other on our respective houses. In my yard we need to cut a rope, Having left our knives at his house, I went and grabbed my hatchet from the garage. He said, "Is that thing even sharp?" I said, "Since you guys have stopped putting it away with dents in it, yeah." Before he could walk to the back door for a kitchen knife ... THWACK ... Rope split, and old 4x4 with one more small nick. Pity we don't have matches that I could have struck off the ax head. I would have cut and fused with the same tool.

I've seen the same kind of incompetence in ASMs and the occasional SM. I find, however, that folks are less upset about a youth who needs correction vs. an adult who needs correction. So saddle your lead youth with sign-off responsibility, uniform inspection, etc... When they screw up, you'll have to put up with less jaw-jerking from your adult leaders.

Welcome to the forum, and thanks for your service to the boys. Here's the test: are your boys smiling? The trick to cub scouts: Most of the boys activity is in the den. If the den is proceeding smoothly, that's 3/4 of the program. Cub scouts really isn't about camping. I spent a lot of time helping other parents my sons' ages get up to speed with camping. We had a great time. On the other hand, other parents helped get my kids up to speed in other areas (stock car racing, trucking, search and rescue). We had a great time. Sounds like you're gonna have to listen closely to your pack leadership. If they keep brushing you off, you may want to look elsewhere. If the boys are still smiling, you might rather put up with their shenanigans. I'm sorry if what I'm saying is not validating your desire to move on. I'm not calling you flat-out petty either. Just remember: smiles are your paycheck. Some folks would say that opinion of mine is kinda petty too. But, it's carried me through a bunch of crap-throwing over so-and-so's "incompetence."

First: Shelter? Build your own for the night! Assign each patrol, one tarp, 5 stakes, 15 feet of twine. My most vivid Klondike derby event: Kim's game. The JASM was explaining the rules ("This is a test of your powers of observation ...") and another ASM was helping him maintain their site. Anyway, the clock started we divided up the box in quadrants and took to memorizing every item in the box. Blanket was covered, 30 seconds, and we started writing furiously. I think we had a minute to remember all the contents of the box. Times up. JASM says: "Okay. So, for 10 nuggets, all or nothing, what was it that Mr. __ asked me for while I was giving you instructions?"

I take the GTA to mean that adult and youth divide up responsibilities. The PL signs off on most skills mastered. The ASM/SM sign off Service, Nights Camping, SMC's and BoR's. SM, obviously, signs blue cards. Any logs are on the scouts' honor. We don't sign off every row. Just when they've completed a milestone for the next rank. The SM adjusts that boundary depending on the maturity of the PLs. When we merged, the new SM had just gone through a round of immature PL's who were signing off their buddies without actually seeing them perform the skill, so he had an "only adults" rule. I promptly commenced talking us back from that ledge. They seem to be back at the usual mix.

The Aussies definitely do it right! But that opinion was not new ... My SM would not give us anything less than what today would be called a "mini-rogain". Anything more straightforward was just "calibration" to him. That attitude seems to have sunk in more than once. My SPL's son was on camp staff a couple years ago, and one evening I had a moment to chat with the young man about his scouting career. He said Dad was SM for a while, and it generally worked out pretty well ... "but, we sure did a lot of orienteering." When I first started with the local orienteering club just a few years ago, the whole notion of advancing to controls in numerical order was new to me. That's where I met Europeans who grew up doing this stuff, and they basically had the equivalent of our cross-country teams which revolved around orienteering.

Just pull up to my neighbor's apt. and honk. Worked until Mrs. Q got sick of it and called the narcs. When I'm far enough into the wilderness that I find bear scat, I start to feel safe again.

Or, as the scoutmaster of my youth called it: a compass course.

Well ... we are all in this together. The only real Id is your word, "I know first aid." And obviously, that can be faked just as well as laminated pieces of paper, (or a neckerchief, to answer 'schiff's question). Unfortunately, BSA has not marketed "first class scout" as well as it has it more rare achievements, so there is no scouting credential that folks outside of the organization would recognize at face value as qualifying the scout to administer any form of first aid. Boys have been trained not just in first aid, but in youth protection. I'm sure that rattling around in their head is some fear of a stranger taking advantage of someone in a vulnerable situation. If a responder is acting sensibly, and everyone communicates to make sure all of the necessary tasks are being administered (securing the scene, contacting personnel, continuing assessment, preventing blood loss, treating for shock, immobilizing, etc ...), you have success.

Thumbs again! Somebody +1 Stosh for me.

I was irritated at the coddling of son #1, who I had to drive 1.5 miles down sidewalked streets to his best friend's. Payback was daughter who got into an exercise routine of midnight runs through the neighborhood ... I'd smirk, but Mrs. Q packs a punch.

In Mr. Q's warped world, incompletion = success. Nobody needs to know that they know what they already know. Everybody needs to know what it is that they don't already know. I've named my open field compass course "tortured soul". Each control has a deck of cards with headings to each of the other controls (including the entry/exit control). Read the top card, set your compass, put the card on the bottom of the deck, proceed to the drawn control. Repeat until you have visited all controls, then continue the course until you draw a card to the exit control. I'm not well loved for that one, but toward the end, each scout can quickly gauge a heading precisely before even setting the compass. If you have the staff, repeat the canoe course next year. I'm sure there will be one or two patrols who will want to take vengeance on that one. Besides, regarding your theme, zombies, I'm told, don't swim.

@@Faith, congratulations to your son! If the troop goes on lots of treks (the carry-your-own-gear kind) you will want to stick with the hand held LEDs or headlamps. Best if they all use the same batteries. I routinely pack a headlamp, a AA battery hand light, and spare batteries for them and/or my gps. (Plus I have some old foil wrappers in another pocket of my pack and steel wool in another pocket ... in case my matches fail me.) I do have one of those rechargeable headlamp/hand lights, (Nitecore), but it gets really hot. A young scout might not be comfortable working with it. Certain types of batteries for it are on the no-fly list. So, you have to be careful about what you purchase for replacements if you take an airline to the trail head. On the other hand, it is nice not to need spare batteries.

I use the -1 because my thumb slipped, mainly. When I do it on purpose, it's usually because I think an opinion is thoroughly unfounded. It may be downright mean. Maybe not. To me pushing the red button allows me to simply dissent without saying anything specific. That allows that person's statement to be the last one on the thread while still letting readers know there's notable dissent regarding it. There's a lot of stuff that you all do where maybe I'd do the opposite, but I don't -1 those posts. I might even +1 although I disagree with a post. If it's well written and worth thinking about, I'd like to draw attention to it. Obviously in those situations I'll reply if I think it will help clarify any part of the post that runs counter to my experience on the matter.

I'm having the opposite problem ... Teaching boys to put a fire dead out. Last week, I was last to leave the site because I was rigging the dog's pack as well as mine. I stopped to check the fire circle, and smoke was rising from one corner. I thought I 'd have to unrig my gear to put it out. Then lo and behold, on the edge of the ring was someone's ozark bottle and just enough water to put the remaining coals dead out. The boys were late to the extraction, so I saved the stern lecture about paying closer attention and how the dog carried more water because I had to carry an somebody's empty empty bottle. At least the ASPL owned up to it once we got home and sorted gear. I told him no worries, I needed to slow the dog down anyway, and am looking forward to the boy's song at the next meeting.

Just a follow-up. Because we had a fourth vehicle, driven by parents who had no specific plans except to hang out at a B&B in the area, I had volunteers who could drive my venturers to their trail head, then take my van back to the extraction point -- no scouts having to wait while we shuttled vehicles. Moreover, there was a sick kid emergency, and they both being nurses and close to the kids' parents, were able to help me handle it without disrupting the venturers' plans. Plus, the mom offered to chaperon crew activities should I need a female adult. Sometimes involving more parents on the weekend does help the program.