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There is no single form (e.g., http://usscouts.org/eagle/eaglecharge.aspsays Please note that many forms/variations of this are used. No single charge is considered to be the "right" one.) NESA promotes its version of the Eagle Promise (http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/542-404.pdf) with no reference to its origin. Several other versions are here (http://www.macscouter.com/Eagle/EagleBook_Pledges.asp). So far I haven't found anything with a date. At least @@TAHAWK's online source has some names. So @@RememberSchiff, I think your impression is fairly accurate. (Although, I've never met a scouter, until you, who was bothered by it. So either folks around me weren't bothered at the time. Or, the dust had settled by then.) When did you get your Eagle? Maybe if a few other Eagles from the same decade recall being saddled with only the scout oath and law, we can put a rough date on the innovations.

I don't know if @@Giulia1102 is still following us. But she would be pleased to know that her post prepared me for this weekend. I met an exchange student from Italy who was sorely missing her scout group, and was thrilled to receive an invite to our crew. I was impressed that she had already read Scouting for Boys and nearly every book that her scoutmaster had on BSA. She was especially excited to read the scout oath and law on the application and mentally translate it to Italian. She had not known that BSA had a program that included young women, so, between Venturing and the high school theater, she told me "I think this is going to be the best year of my life!"

I'm spinning this off the other thread about sharing costs of ECoHs. Most of us agree that ceremonies can be bogged down when folks (usually excited parents) try to pack in too many elements. That lead to some interesting questions about the seemingly wordy Eagle Pledge and Eagle Charge which, on paper don't seem like much, but can be the last straw when preceded by guest speakers, special recognitions, etc ... . So when did did the pledge and charge become part of the ceremony? Some of us youngns remember it back in the 70s. Anybody got a memory or publication with things of the sort from an earlier court of honor?

They were extant in the 70s. (My troop was pretty much a backwater, so if they were using it, others must have been.)As to why? Never asked. Do any of these appear anywhere in print ... Including a byline?

We've had some doozies, but none more than an hour. When I coach boys on ceremonies, I encourage them to read the script, out load, with a stop-watch, then double that time. NESA's oath isn't that long. But it's longer if you wait for all the Eagles in the room to shuffle to the front to join the boy and his parents, as we often do. The charge can be long. But it's better if an honored guest presents it using that skeleton in his own words. I really thought I had the perfect scout (and buddies, and maybe even adult or two) for the panel discussion. And I had the right audience of scouts and scouters who would write some good questions on cards, plus one of the better readers among SPLs to present the questions. But he's a bit of a smart-mouth and knows it, so I think he really wanted to have a script for himself to avoid saying something "in the grey area." I've offered to others since then, but zero traction. It would be nice to hear of someone out there giving it a go.

I, for one, loved the "hype hoopla and speechifying" from my very first ECoH. It only got kinda boring on me in later life. I am constantly asking boys if they want to do anything different. They either want that special day with that 1/2 hour ceremony (not just the Eagles themselves, but the scouts performing the ceremonies) or don't want any ceremony (in spite of offering the most profoundly simple possibilities that some of you describe). P.S. - I'd just like to throw out a dare to any scouter and his/her boys: a panel-discussion format CoH let us know if you ever manage to pull off something of the sort.

I've been trying to infect our youth with a vision for RMNP for years. Props to yours wanting to give it a go. My brother is a hike-master there during the summer. He took me on a few hikes in both RMNP and Arapaho. He's not a fan of backpacking, but one day I think we'll get it together. Personally, I find an insertion into the Wild Basin from near Allenspark very appealing. But not having done any of this with scouts, I'll not give any specific advice. Just, some general points on planning: First: required reading for you and your scouts: https://www.nps.gov/romo/planyourvisit/wilderness-camping.htm Second, you need plans A, B, and C for any of this. Third, just like Philmont, start your boys on the hike-a-month club so that they are comfortable with all their gear by departure.

I think mine was something like that as well. But, the bulk of the time was spent on the Eagle award (including some guest speakers). Being in the spring, there were not a lot of rank advancements. There still was a cookie table c/o some church ladies whose husbands were on the committee (including mom, who was gonna make sure there was a decent stack of pizzelles for the boys). We were eating off of my project (refinished tables ... saving the church purchasing newer, inferior looking, ones). There is push-back from some boys about ceremonies being blown out of proportion. I attribute that to the increasing average age of attainment. So, we do have more Eagles leaving town by the time a ceremony can be scheduled. Some young men have already mentally "moved on". But this article from a few years back http://settumanque.org/2013/04/our-new-eagle-scouts-wont-do-a-court-of-honor-help-26-mar-13/points to a generally depressed national mood as part of the problem. It also gives some suggestions as to how to restore some balance so that boys don't dread the process.

@@CalicoPenn, file it under "you just don't get U.S." Because, really, what scoutmaster wants to have a full course meal that includes rolled grape leaves, stuffed cabbage, and baklava? And cake in Western PA without a cookie table (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/16/dining/16cookies.html?_r=0)? You don't have to understand. Just accept. But, I figure this tradition started when some big sister was at her brother's ECoH in the 50's, they all went to the back of the hall for cookies and punch, and she thought in whatever ethnic dialect her family thought such thoughts, "My wedding would be so much more fun, if only ..."

The pilot started much earlier. This from meritbadge.com: "The program was developed by the Northern Star Council and is scheduled to test for a total of 5 years. 2008-2009 is the first year of the program and includes a total of 262 of Lion Cub Scouts currently enrolled in the program. During the year, Adult Partners will be asked to provide answers to detailed survey questions and provide feedback on each month’s theme, plans and activities. The first report on the pilot program will be released at the end of December 2008 based on the October/November adult partner surveys and evaluations. The primary curriculum/educational outcomes are for parents/Adult Partners to learn the basics of youth development and Scouting’s proven tools for raising happy, healthy children. The outcome for the kids is to discover the fun of Scouting at an earlier age."

Not sure what we do do since we merged (haven't had a ECoR yet). Previously, the troop just payed for the award kit. As to what should be done ... This is one of those things that should be allowed to vary from troop to troop. In these parts, we have massive HS graduation parties (I've been told that this not the case elsewhere.) So, our last-minute Eagles have been folding the ECoR in with that blow-out. But even with scouts who Eagled in a more timely fashion, families fronted the cost of refreshments, and it was a matter of personal pride as to the quality of food served. (Maybe it served as the taste-testing before the grad party?) I'm sure with other troops, especially those who like to have multiple Eagles awarded at the same time, all of the expenses are shared. It's a big country. The diversity should be accommodated. If one way is a hardship, you're probably running up against different cultures with different priorities. Act differently.

It is very true that college-bound venturers have little time because they have to work harder to raise money for college. This is especially true of private school students whose parents pay tuition and local school taxes. (When I've said this in the past, I've been accused of being anti-private education or pro-voucher. Please do not take it as such. I am strictly talking about budgets and whose among families with similar income and living expenses will be necessarily tighter by the time college enrollment rolls around.) My latest recruit is actually on a break from college, and now has a job and time, as well as savings, to put towards some things she missed in high school. The education dept crisis is forcing a lot of life decisions that we have not seen in a long time. If it weren't for engineering co-ops (which effectively interrupt schooling for intermittent gainful employment), my kids would have a hard time justifying their expenses. But, regarding this impact on scouting we need to keep in mind: Jamboree never attracted more than 3% of membership. I'm not sure about H/A bases, but I bet they never attracted more than 15% of membership. Part of the adventure is figuring out how much "backyard fun" you can have with meager earnings and a few pieces of cloth.

I'm not sure why everyone is still missing this, but the boy was simply too young to enjoy most of this troop's activities. He was at least a year younger than every boy mentioned in every anecdote about young scouts adapting to the troop. Every scout who I've met who crossed over this young eventually took a substantial break from the program. So, @@Phrogger is making that break early gently rather than later roughly. Sounds as good an idea as any. Also (and this is not faulting his folks, they didn't know better), he was being pushed at home to do advancement. In our troop we ASM's don't start nudging kids to move up the next rank until after they come back from summer camp. IMHO, no parent should ever push any scout (boy or girl) to advance at all. Make sure the scout has the gear he/she needs? Yes. Try an activity that he/she has learned? Yes. Help them fund-raise? Sure. Teach them to sew on their own patches? Definitely. Keep them organized and help them fill out their own med form? Good idea. Let the SM know if there's a problem? Yep. Pressure/nag/or sometimes even politely ask about advancement? Not a parent's job description. Now, once their 17 and Life and say they could use a little nudge, things change a little. But that's because by then a boy should have learned that parents are his partners, not his boss.

I'm sorry things are panning out this way. The camp director is not registers as your unit's Webelos den leader. Giving him/her a call is still a good idea. You don't need to sign anything that you believe to be untrue. In fact you mustn't (first point of the scout law). You certainly are under no obligation to award anything while you are den leader. Of course, digging your heels in might mean you're not DL for long. But if the boys aren't picking up these skills, you might rather move on. Your best strategy, however, is to get the boys up to speed. That's what everyone wants in the end. P.S. Happy anniversary!

Talk to your DE about 1 and 3.

I actually think it was the opposite. Soldiers in the royal army had to work their ticket back home from wherever in the empire they were deployed, So, the notion of "working to pay his own way" was part of the scouting mystique -- as opposed to an officer getting a wire transfer from his countess grandma for services to the crown. (Pardon my extreme revisionist history.) So, boys had that sense of rugged individualism from early on in scouting. When things like Jamborees and other big-ticket adventures for youth came on the horizon, a balance was struck between an elite boy garnering his own funds and relying on his family, the troop, etc... for the larger portion of expenses.

Correction: to the west of Miami! By the way @@sliptonic, what kind of adventure are you all taking? That might determine the day activity. (E.g., if you are sailing all week, a day kayaking or tarpon/permit fishing might be fun. If you are island-adventure kayaking, you might want to try a day of sailing, etc ...). Also, are your scouts rural or urban? (By urban, I mean mixed-language communities.) We hung out at Miami Beach before and after our first week there. Let's just say the language challenges were part of the adventure!

Yep. This starts at the CO. So the charter organization representative is the person to talk to. It doesn't have to be specific. It could be as simple as "What kind of financial accountability would you like us to have in the new year?" In the meantime, try really hard not to assume the worst. If the boys are getting their awards, and camp is getting paid for, it could be a matter of very sloppy paperwork. Folks (myself included) can get really testy when it's pointed out that they've left a lot of litter for someone else to collect. If it is bad, it's not your problem to solve. Tell the COR you're not touching the books until they are satisfied with the numbers in the checkbook and are ready to walk you to the bank.

The 'glades are impressive. I personally was impressed with the drive down Krome Avenue (runs north-south to the East of Miami). It's truly a breadbasket of the south. The driving is not fast. But the roadside stands are something to see. There's some good eating to be found in Homestead. Key West is neat (once you find a place to park) because you can rent bicycles and tool around nicely. I enjoyed biking it looking for geocaches. Warning: scuttlebutt from captains is that some scout-leaders are less than discrete about alcohol use on their "free" days at KW. Know your people, if this is an issue, choose your locations accordingly.

I'll confess that of things I fail to take seriously, this is one of them. Partly because: drug dependence (especially to this one) has caused rifts among family and friends to the point that laughter covers tears. I do hold out hope that regulated production may curb certain types of abuse. I've come across the plants in the wild (not part of any production) and was largely unimpressed. As far as impact on scouting ... every plot of tightly controlled land (e.g. GM corn fields, of which we have a few around here) is one more place boys can't hike, camp, or play capture the flag in. If that was the issue raised, I'd be more empathetic.

No clue about the camp or the program, but a suggestion on how to get more data: Call the camp director and ask for a referral from another troop or two. Maybe one who might attend the week that you're interested in and one who doesn't participate in the program or visited from out of council. The ideal would be if you could get your PLC and their PLC on speaker phone.

I did not intend to conflate tour plan with council approval. Tour plan is a tool to help preparation. It necessarily involves the unit key three. "Regardless, the tour and activity plan is an excellent tool that should be included in preparation for all activities, even those not requiring it. It guides a tour leader through itineraries, travel arrangements, two-deep leadership, supervision qualifications, and transportation." The question becomes: is this a pack campout if it is billed as such but only tigers show up?

Yeah, there are a lot of tech "believers". They see something work in one arena and push for it in another. What the poor souls don't realize is that in doing so, they make themselves everybody's secretary if they lack buy-in from everyone. That's fine. You're just a humble den leader now. Let him know that the data in his system is currently bogus, and you won't rely on it until it speaks truth. It's on him to figure out how to make sure that happens. For now, truth lies in hardcopy you give to your CC. What really matters is what the boys think. And they seem to know that they haven't even really tried to master some skills yet. That's a good place to be. It's not like anyone told them they were deserving of some award, and they can catch up by learning with their buddies. Finally, never worry about the boys being "embarassed" while visiting another troop. Most scouts were Webelos once, and they all probably remember forgetting a thing or two that was taught them. The thing that the resident campers will have gained, is they know a few older scouts, and if they are in a troop you visit, they'll recognize them right quick.

Is this an attempt at historical fiction? No, I find the notion of recruiting youth for international espionage far too unsettling.

Welcome, and thanks in advance for your service to the boys!