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@@NobodyReally, welcome to the forums! The only reason it's impossible to earn 180 MBs is that there are currently only 136! There are scouts who legitimately earn them all. Yeah, sounds like your troop's kinda doing it wrong too. The scout may master some skills for the MB on a campout, but nobody needs to sign off on each little thing. He gets a blue card, meets with any available counselor in the district, goes home/camping/touring etc ..., meets with the counselor again to cover what he did, counselor signs blue card. MB earned. Here's the deal. If the boy feels like he is being unfairly challenged as to the program he received, he should ask the SM for a conference and share his perspective. When he is up for board of review, he can explain to the committee that the adults should be more affirming about skills mastered and last paranoid about shoddy counselors. Maybe they'll be able to explain to him about how some other boys or leaders who truly had "high-speed low-drag" attitude toward advancement disappointed them ... and between both sides, everyone will come to a mutual understanding. Botttom line: it's his troop, not yours. So as a parent, you need to just keep encouraging him to interact with his adult leaders and ask them what they are really concerned about. At the same time, let him know that if he finds things to be truly insufferable, you'll take time to help him visit another troop.

I'm told that Den chiefs can count. We've done things like that with pennies. The boys get 5 pennies, they can drop them into slotted tins or boxes in front of each car/cake/project. (Hint, you can teach the Webelos to fold origami boxes the week before the race ... you'll have more than you'll need or ever want to see again.) If you're okay with open voting, you could use stickers. A different color for each category. (If you're really obsessive you can print the categories on labels. And each boy gets a strip of labels.) Each car gets a card/ribbon to put the stickers on, and and the car-builder gets to take home the card full of stickers as a momento. The trick with all of these is to have the boys go down the line of cars once before getting their voting tokens.

This sounds like a do-what-you-would-normally-do-while-we-market-it scheme. But, here's what I think is really going on ... increasingly, middle-class parents are not joiners. (Consider the amount of efforts political campaigns are putting out begging independents to "not waste their vote" relative to "go talk to your neighbor about our candidate".) They are doing that because families are seen as "islands unto themselves" and everything, from men's clubs to religious/political associations erodes the shores of those islands. (Somehow, soccer leagues and yoga classes are not seen as doing that.) In my opinion, the reality is that successive generations of parents took the "choose your friends wisely" lesson to extremes, and now commute to work and church and recreation rather than live in a nearby row-house and block off the street once a week for the kids to play ball with their nearest neighbors. I walked to my den-mom's place until I was a Webelo. How many of us attend scouts/church within 20 minute walking distance from home/school/work? What do we have against all of the neighbors who we drive past? What do they have against us? So, I suggest we read "family inclusive" as a buzzword for "let us help you build/maintain your Island."

Unsold corn going to mash.

The kettle corn vendor probably didn't want any competition ...

The crew is still pulling itself together. However, the general goal is one backpacking weekend every month. I'm getting them to work on a coordinated hike plan with the troop at the end of the month (different insertions, rendevous at campsite, same extractions). Hopefully we get the newbies geared up this week. Then convince the Italian that her pasta con panna would be ideal for a trail meal. But enough about me. Mrs, Q visited daughter and they took an excursion to the gulf coast. Got text saying "having a great time with, you guessed it, scouts and venturers." They meet close to where my daughter lives (if you call those three days between six day hitches living), so the leaders were on her like white on rice. So her plan for the fall now includes filling out the BSA adult application. Gotta see if I still have that spare associate advisor's patch...

Great points. I'll be sure to present them. One hitch ...Some locations ask you to build your fires upon a slab of rock. Don't even dig. Know before you go ... The interesting thing about Dolly Sods: digging fire pits (or using one already dug) may have contributed to the problem. The soil is merely piled-on decaying leaf litter, I've found it 1-1/2 foot deep in places (early surveys reported four feet of the stuff). Once dry, it smolders almost as well as peat. You might "think" you're down to dirt because the "duff" seems like a real porous clay or sand instead of the biomass it truly is. Once dry and hot, it will smolder, air descends into the pit delivering oxygen, combustion proceeds laterally underneath the last four years' of leaf litter. Whatever has spilled out of unexploded ordnance from 50 years ago does not help! Thus, find a slab. There's plenty.

I have a venturing leadership award http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Venturing/Awards/leadership.aspxthat similarly comes with a medal hung on a neck ribbon and a knot. I got an extra knot to put on my boy scout uniform as well as my venturing uniform. The medal only comes out on special occasions. (Although many such occasions are at the end of a weekend camp, and as such, I've forgotten to pack it. ) Most of us uniform police, when we see an irregular patch, are more interested, in the story the wear has to tell about it. My problem these days is that my scouts often neglect putting the totems of their stories on their uniform. As a result, they miss an opportunity to tell their scouting story to a cub (and the occasional girlfriend) who would ask about a particular patch neatly placed and not surrounded by clutter. So, I think your knot has a story to tell, and should you find yourself serving in a BSA uniform, you should affix it above the left pocket where such recognition would go. The medal should hang from your neck at functions where such scouter awards would be recognized (e.g., silver beaver, district awards of merit, etc ...).

Some fodder for your scoutmaster minute on why you emptied your canteen on some trail-side warming fire your boys lit ... http://wvpublic.org/post/update-three-wildfires-ablaze-dolly-sods-wilderness-two-fires-extinguished Forty years of nutrient litter smolder away in four days. Fortunately limited to just a few acres in a 64 square mile area. It's a shame, but many folks in these parts take fire risk too lightly, thinking it's a Western problem.

@@ianwilkins, if it's a medal and the scouter is attending a court of honor or some other affair wear medals are worn, I would encourage wearing the medal. If it's a knot, I would encourage sewing it on to help draw the uniform police off our boys! We need to realize that the goal of the insignia guide is to encourage a tidy appearance (and reserve certain portions of cloth for advertising BSA functions like Councils, O/A, and National Jamborees), not to dictate what and what not a scouter proudly acknowledge.

Just saw someone present this last week. No clue as to it's origin. The long side represented duty to God and country. The rest of it you got. I doubt there is any reason that this will help boys remember any better. Some, will picture it. Others will confuse that mental image with something else (e.g. Pass punt and kick).

there's not a knot for that, but surely it's not all for naught?

Thanks for the report. Were the ceremonies you attended at the same troop or different units? The National Eagle Scout Association promotes these in some of their sample scripts for ECoHs. There's a book (maybe two?) specifically on ECoH ceremonies. So clearly your people have either never seen them. Or, they saw them and said "Meh, who needs it?"

When the DILT was going through sticker shock and agonizing over the guest list, I told her if she wanted to elope, I'd block off the street after they got back, set up a big come-as-you-are ox-roast in the back yard, and she could invite whomever she wanted (plus any neighbors who would otherwise complain about the noise and whomever I would need to permit the street closure). Everyone would eat mighty fine and dance all night (maybe into the next day) for a third the trouble. She didn't bite. Quite a few did eat, and we danced till about 10. Almost as fun as the grad par-T's that followed the son's ECoHs!

Survival strategies I don't tell my venturers: Arrive late to a summit/conclave/moot? While the youth are pitching their tents, check in at the kitchen with the Cook/QM. That's where you're likely to find the leftover pie, and someone willing to warm it up for you. They have the best stories from their time in the service as well.

Definitely spend the first couple of days or two at at least 8,000 ft doing light duty stuff to help the folks prone to elevation sickness. And you never know who in the group that's gonna be. It does not seem to fall along the lines of "not in shape". When I went with my family, it hit Son #1 - at age 14 the most athletic of us all - the worst as we were on a side trip to Pike's Peak. Then the day or two after, we hoofed up with our friends to the continental divide at Flattop, and suddenly my buddy - an avid runner - was hit really hard with what he described as "odd headaches" while his 11 year-old daughter, his son, Son #1, and I were just fine. The symptoms alleviated on the way back down. A couple of days later, my brother took us on a hike to Hallet's Peak ... no problems whatsoever. Other thing to note about hiking boots: They do protect from some sprains, but limit mobility. Hands-down my buddy's 11-year-old daughter did just fine in tennis shoes over all the rocks. But, she was an avid dancer (now in a professional ballet company). So, if your boys are into it, they could sign up for twice-weekly lessons at the dance studio, and build those ankles up to where sprains would be very unlikely.

There is no single form (e.g., http://usscouts.org/eagle/eaglecharge.aspsays Please note that many forms/variations of this are used. No single charge is considered to be the "right" one.) NESA promotes its version of the Eagle Promise (http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/542-404.pdf) with no reference to its origin. Several other versions are here (http://www.macscouter.com/Eagle/EagleBook_Pledges.asp). So far I haven't found anything with a date. At least @@TAHAWK's online source has some names. So @@RememberSchiff, I think your impression is fairly accurate. (Although, I've never met a scouter, until you, who was bothered by it. So either folks around me weren't bothered at the time. Or, the dust had settled by then.) When did you get your Eagle? Maybe if a few other Eagles from the same decade recall being saddled with only the scout oath and law, we can put a rough date on the innovations.

I don't know if @@Giulia1102 is still following us. But she would be pleased to know that her post prepared me for this weekend. I met an exchange student from Italy who was sorely missing her scout group, and was thrilled to receive an invite to our crew. I was impressed that she had already read Scouting for Boys and nearly every book that her scoutmaster had on BSA. She was especially excited to read the scout oath and law on the application and mentally translate it to Italian. She had not known that BSA had a program that included young women, so, between Venturing and the high school theater, she told me "I think this is going to be the best year of my life!"

I'm spinning this off the other thread about sharing costs of ECoHs. Most of us agree that ceremonies can be bogged down when folks (usually excited parents) try to pack in too many elements. That lead to some interesting questions about the seemingly wordy Eagle Pledge and Eagle Charge which, on paper don't seem like much, but can be the last straw when preceded by guest speakers, special recognitions, etc ... . So when did did the pledge and charge become part of the ceremony? Some of us youngns remember it back in the 70s. Anybody got a memory or publication with things of the sort from an earlier court of honor?

They were extant in the 70s. (My troop was pretty much a backwater, so if they were using it, others must have been.)As to why? Never asked. Do any of these appear anywhere in print ... Including a byline?

We've had some doozies, but none more than an hour. When I coach boys on ceremonies, I encourage them to read the script, out load, with a stop-watch, then double that time. NESA's oath isn't that long. But it's longer if you wait for all the Eagles in the room to shuffle to the front to join the boy and his parents, as we often do. The charge can be long. But it's better if an honored guest presents it using that skeleton in his own words. I really thought I had the perfect scout (and buddies, and maybe even adult or two) for the panel discussion. And I had the right audience of scouts and scouters who would write some good questions on cards, plus one of the better readers among SPLs to present the questions. But he's a bit of a smart-mouth and knows it, so I think he really wanted to have a script for himself to avoid saying something "in the grey area." I've offered to others since then, but zero traction. It would be nice to hear of someone out there giving it a go.

I, for one, loved the "hype hoopla and speechifying" from my very first ECoH. It only got kinda boring on me in later life. I am constantly asking boys if they want to do anything different. They either want that special day with that 1/2 hour ceremony (not just the Eagles themselves, but the scouts performing the ceremonies) or don't want any ceremony (in spite of offering the most profoundly simple possibilities that some of you describe). P.S. - I'd just like to throw out a dare to any scouter and his/her boys: a panel-discussion format CoH let us know if you ever manage to pull off something of the sort.

I've been trying to infect our youth with a vision for RMNP for years. Props to yours wanting to give it a go. My brother is a hike-master there during the summer. He took me on a few hikes in both RMNP and Arapaho. He's not a fan of backpacking, but one day I think we'll get it together. Personally, I find an insertion into the Wild Basin from near Allenspark very appealing. But not having done any of this with scouts, I'll not give any specific advice. Just, some general points on planning: First: required reading for you and your scouts: https://www.nps.gov/romo/planyourvisit/wilderness-camping.htm Second, you need plans A, B, and C for any of this. Third, just like Philmont, start your boys on the hike-a-month club so that they are comfortable with all their gear by departure.

I think mine was something like that as well. But, the bulk of the time was spent on the Eagle award (including some guest speakers). Being in the spring, there were not a lot of rank advancements. There still was a cookie table c/o some church ladies whose husbands were on the committee (including mom, who was gonna make sure there was a decent stack of pizzelles for the boys). We were eating off of my project (refinished tables ... saving the church purchasing newer, inferior looking, ones). There is push-back from some boys about ceremonies being blown out of proportion. I attribute that to the increasing average age of attainment. So, we do have more Eagles leaving town by the time a ceremony can be scheduled. Some young men have already mentally "moved on". But this article from a few years back http://settumanque.org/2013/04/our-new-eagle-scouts-wont-do-a-court-of-honor-help-26-mar-13/points to a generally depressed national mood as part of the problem. It also gives some suggestions as to how to restore some balance so that boys don't dread the process.

@@CalicoPenn, file it under "you just don't get U.S." Because, really, what scoutmaster wants to have a full course meal that includes rolled grape leaves, stuffed cabbage, and baklava? And cake in Western PA without a cookie table (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/16/dining/16cookies.html?_r=0)? You don't have to understand. Just accept. But, I figure this tradition started when some big sister was at her brother's ECoH in the 50's, they all went to the back of the hall for cookies and punch, and she thought in whatever ethnic dialect her family thought such thoughts, "My wedding would be so much more fun, if only ..."