NJCubScouter

What to do with I&P is a perennial subject, including among the Moderators who have to deal with some of foolishness that goes on here. My attitude is that (as long as the owner of this forum wants to keep it), if you don't like I&P, you don't have to read it. That is exactly what it was set up for - to separate the hotly-debated issues from the everyday-Scouting stuff so that those who just want to read the everyday-Scouting stuff can do so unimpeded by the highly charged topics in another section. There is a big sign on it, written by Terry I assume (it was there when I got here in 2002), that says as much. I find it ironic that some people are arguing for the abolition of I&P, in I&P. Hello? McFly? And if anybody is arguing that I&P should go in order to save them from themselves (stop me before I post again!), that's not the business we're in here. If anyone is "addicted" to this forum, or anything else, there are places you can go for help with that. (Hi, my name is NJCubScouter... Hi, NJCubScouter! - or I guess it would just be NJCub, no last names.) Now, should there be an effort to calm things down in I&P, get people to tone down their posts, etc.? Couldn't hurt, but it's a difficult thing to achieve - partly because nobody ever thinks it is their posts that need to be toned down. The moderators do what we can.

You have obviously mistaken me (for reasons that I suppose I can understand) for a person who believes that "cultural appropriation" is a "thing." (Or as we would have said back in my day, a "real thing.") But I am not. If I was, I would be complaining that people who are not Jewish, but who use words like klutz, glitch, chutzpah, bagel and nudnik (from which we get beatnik, peace-nik, no-good-nik and all the other -nik's), and many other words (some of which I won't mention here because this is a family forum), "stole" them from "my culture," specifically from the Yiddish language spoken by my grandparents and their ancestors and all the other Jewish people who immigrated here from 1880-1920 (ish) from Eastern Europe. But I don't. I don't care. Use all the Yiddish words you want. Have a bagel. Have a blintz. Have some kreplach (a dumpling by any other name would taste as good.) And I don't think the Italians mind if you have some lasagna, or the Chinese if you have some wontons (see kreplach) or the Hungarians if you have any of those dishes that I can't pronounce or spell that my wife makes for us now and then. That does not mean that I think it's a bad idea to move away from some of the uses of depictions of Native Americans. I view it in terms of respect. Does the usage respect the culture that it is depicting? And I guess what goes into that is, Is it accurate? Is it reasonably dignified? And I suppose that the wishes of the group being depicted are part of the mix in determining whether it is respectful, as well. Chief Wahoo is not respectful, and he's on his way out. What about the OA? Are all of the lodges in the country respectful of the culture they are depicting? I don't really know enough to say. The last time I was even peripherally involved with OA was 1976, although I could have re-upped my membership when I came back to Scouting. But from what I have read in this forum over the years, it's probably a mixed bag. That being the case, if I had a vote on the subject, it would probably to try to find some other symbology for the OA.

As will I, but I wonder whether it might be better to allow up to two posts per user. But Eagledad, it's your experiment.

Without commenting on the overall issue, I would note that imitating a horn and imitating the behavior of other people are two very different things.

I don't think the GSUSA will ever accept boys as members. I don't think it's even an issue within that organization. As for "homosexuals," they dropped their policy of excluding "homosexuals" long before the BSA did. Not that I'm an expert on GSUSA. Both my daughters quit the Girl Scouts more than 20 years ago. But that's what I've read.

I'm not sure. Our troop did not allow it, but then I read something somewhere (Bryan's Blog maybe) that said it was permitted. I am not sure whether I have heard of a policy of our council or not.

I think it depends largely on what name they come up with for the new girls-only program. I don't think it is going to be any of the names that have been suggested in this forum for the past few months, including ones suggested mostly-jokingly by me. Hopefully they will come up with something brilliant.

Yes, and the terminology seems awkward and/or incorrect throughout the article.

That sounds like the right move. If you have the leadership and facilities for a pack with 100 Cubs, have a pack with 100 Cubs. It sounds like your DE is just looking to create another unit, if only on paper.

I don't see any hatchet jobs in that news clip. As RS said, I see a child who wants to be a Cub Scout. (And, interestingly, the reporter says the girl is also a Girl Scout and the implication is that she is staying in Girl Scouts while also being a Cub Scout.) As for "the collapse of traditional values," I did not realize that being male was a "traditional value."

Welcome to Scouter.com Alex!

Evidently I skimmed too fast. I can understand why they are requiring that for the girl dens. There's no denying that it isn't the same as for boy dens. I guess each person is going to have a different opinion about whether that's a problem, and how big of a problem.

Since I am at work I really just sped through the video with the sound off. I saw some slides about leadership requirements but I didn't see what you are talking about. At what time in the video was that? (Or did one of the speakers say it without the words being on the screen, in which case I wouldn't have heard it since I had the sound off.)

Great! Congrats!

Is Sydney Ireland really talking about "tearing down" the program? I doubt it. I am sure she thinks of herself as trying to build it up.

A decision on what? To start the girl-den pilot project?

Cellophane flowers of yellow and green? The woman in the middle of that picture looks like a cardboard cutout.

I agree with you and, no, I don't think that is a major factor in these activities being so popular. At least it was my observation, based on the activities that I saw, that the kids were participating primarily because they genuinely enjoyed those activities.) There are probably some kids participating in some activities partly due to scholarship opportunities. I know that FIRST Robotics promotes its programs as (among other things) a way to qualify for scholarships at many schools. (I heard that speech many, many times while my son was participating.) But that's different from just checking a "participation box" for an application. There also are kids participating in certain activities because they want to (or may want to) go into those fields professionally. The Robotics team had many kids who were either considering or had already decided to go into engineering or computer science. Many debaters eventually become lawyers (as I did.) But this too is different from just checking a box.

What say you, @Cambridgeskip and @ianwilkins? Do British Scouts get dressed up as Saxon hordes or Norman conquerors or anything like that? You have more "legend and lore" to choose from than we do. (Added: I found a good illustration of some Saxon raiders doing their thing, but I did not post it because it was slightly gruesome. What I noticed that is somewhat relevant to today is that the guys were carrying... sheath knives! Very large ones, too.)

Aw, give him a break, he had to refer to something with a "mill" in it, and what else is there, really? And by the way, Don, just so you know, you seem to be tilting.

I'm not convinced that the electronic devices are that much to blame. Somehow it seems that between looking at their screens and playing video games, youth (in general) are involved in more activities than ever. Sports and athletics (both school and rec/AAU/etc. leagues, and both boys and girls) are bigger than ever. A very large number of kids are involved in robotics and not just in the technical areas but also in marketing, administration, etc. The other night at a school board meeting I heard that the local high school's speech and debate team has more than 150 members. Back in my days on the debating team, a school of similar size would probably have at most, about 25-30 kids involved. Marching band and other performing groups attract more students than ever. And on and on. And I think it is THAT - the availability and popularity of other activities for youth - that is one of the main culprits in the decline in interest in Scouting.

Actually the Senate uses its own rules, which are largely the same as Robert's Rules but with some important differences, most notably (at least in the past couple of weeks) the rules that allow for filibusters on legislation. Robert's Rules limits speeches to two (per day, if it's a multi-day meeting) per motion per member and the speeches are limited to 10 minutes each, so even if someone was trying to delay a vote, eventually everybody's right to speak would be exhausted and the vote would be taken automatically. Unlike in the Senate where the length of speeches is not limited and it takes 60 votes to end debate. As for the using the stick rather than the rules, this was an unofficial meeting of about 20+ Senators in one of their offices. (They must have large offices.) So the rules would not apply unless they wanted them to, but I think they were trying to keep this meeting somewhat informal and "light" which was tough to do in the super-tense atmosphere of a government shutdown. I also think the stick was kind of a "gimmick" to remind the Senators that they should speak one at a time rather than trying to talk (or shout) over each other. And the meeting did result in a deal, so maybe in future situations like that they also will use a stick, though they need to remember to get all breakable items off the shelves first.

I have never seen the BSA or any unit try to restrict the non-BSA activities of its members or leaders. As EmberMike pointed out, there are people who are members of both BSA and BPSA, which are directly competing organizations. The same could theoretically be true for Trail Life, though I don't know whether there is anyone who actually is a member of both.

You mean “perceived,” I think.