Kudu

Lisabob writes: "his '100 feet/300 feet' thing gets old, sometimes" Yeah, well what we perceive as "gets old" is an expression of what we do not value. To me the "Mission Statement" gets old. Lisabob writes: "and isn't a panacea," I never said that Baden-Powell's 300 foot rule is a panacea, it only solves 99% of the BSA's problems. By definition, a panacea would solve 100% Lisabob writes: "I frequently find that I agree with his basic point that adults need to get the heck out of the way of the kids and that really utilizing the patrol method is important. " Getting adults out of the way is only a secondary benefit, Lisabob. Separating the Patrols by 300 feet is all about ADVENTURE. Adventure should be only purpose for teaching "leadership" to Boy Scouts: A method of managing risk 300' from the nearest adult. Practical, like training Life Guards. Lisabob writes: "His anti-Wood Badge stuff has no relevance to the original poster's question though." It certainly does. Daddy_O wants for his son the kind of Scouting being promised now in the national media by the Chief Scout Executive, Robert Mazzuca. Basically it is a return to 1972 (the year after Mazzuca was hired by the BSA): replace camping with "character" (which he defines as "sitting side by side with adults") and "leadership" (which he refers to as the "evolving science of leadership...Wood Badge, our adult leader training program, because we use state-of-the-art techniques"). Lisabob writes: "The poster is trying to figure out whether boy scouts is the right program for his kid, not what the politics of Wood Badge are." No, Daddy_O has already decided that Boy Scouts is right program for his kid, he was very specific: "But he loves scouts, and wants to stay. We need an Adult led advancement-oriented troop...thats exactly what we need...How do I find them?" OK, Daddy-O, the following was seriously overdue, but here is that ad hominem assist attack I promised you last night: Yah, I gotta agree with Lisabob, eh? This was not the place for another Kudu Woodbadge rant. Apparently in staying true to his version of traditional Scouting, Kudu forgot the whole Helpful, Friendly, Courteous routine . Note that it is essentially the same "argument against the man" technique. You will see Scout Law used as a weapon many times in Scout discussion forums. "Beavah" is "projecting" on me the qualities of "Helpful, Friendly, Courteous" that he himself was manifesting at that particular moment in time. Call it a "rant" if you want to, but twelve years ago during the "Wood Badge Uniform Wars" I discovered that ad hominem attacks by holders of the Wood Badge are actually a very effective weapon. I always point them out. I realize that this all must be very confusing to you Daddy_O, but the Beavers are superior to all of the other Wood Badge Patrols, so we can hope this episode is over. Kudu

Beavah writes: "Yah, but I see this has now become a Kudu thread. Ah well. That'll be the end of it." Only if you persist in your ad hominem streak, Beavah. Beavah writes: " I assume his point is that the SM's position isn't unreasonable, when looked at from the point of view of the whole scouting movement." No, I look at it from a biological point of view. The physics of moving through 300 miles of backcountry are essentially the same for this Scoutmaster's Scouts as they were for traditional Boy Scouts on June 15, 1916. For Baden-Powell, Scouting values can only be formed by these wilderness experiences, which he called "The Religion of the Backwoods:" Some may object that the religion of the Backwoods is also a religion of the backward; and to some extent it is so. It is going back to the primitive, to the elemental, but at the same time it is to the common ground on which most forms of religion are based --- namely, the appreciation of God and service to one's neighbor. See: http://inquiry.net/ideals/b-p/backwoods.htm Such Scoutcraft is the kind of adventure mandated by our Congressional Charter. Kudu

"Maybe it's time to realize the requirements have changed. Maybe not for the better but they have changed. Continuing to spout old requirements ad nauseum is getting old & actually has no point." I used the terms "standards" and "expectations," as in the Eagle Scouts in that Scoutmaster's Troop rose to the expectation of six 50-Milers. If you see Scouting as the ultimate program for boys, then the standards from the era when every boy wanted to be a Boy Scout are a blueprint for adventure. Kudu

ghermanno writes: "Problem: At the last Roundtable, one of our SM's said 'I require my Eagle candidates to have at least six (6) 50 milers under their belt before they can apply for Eagle'." Hmm, let's see: 6x50 = 300 miles, plus the 2nd Class hike That is a little more ambitious than the "Baden-Powell" Journeys and Expeditions standard was in the rest of the world: Second Class = 8 miles First Class = 15 miles Scout Cord (Star) = 2 days & 1 night Bushman's Cord (Life Scout) = 20 miles King's Scout (Eagle) = 50 miles (200 by horse) See: http://inquiry.net/advancement/traditional/journey_requirements.htm In defense of Scouting's expectations in the rest of the world, the above Journeys and Expeditions were strictly Scout planned and Scout run (no adults allowed on a 12-year-old's 8 mile Journey or a teenager's 200 mile Expedition!) Kudu

Daddy_O writes: "LisaBob,Thanks for the disclaimer. I really (really) did not comprehend Kudu's post. I've been on the sidelines for 5 years." Daddy_O if you have been away for five years, then you should study Lisabob's post carefully because she uses a form of Wood Badge Logic that you will encounter many times in Scouting forums: An ad hominem attack. Look up ad hominem, and you will see that it describes perfectly what Lisabob has done: ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the man", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking the person, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim. The fun thing about Wood Badge Logic is that such personal attacks are ALWAYS a form of "projection." In other words, when a holder of the Wood Badge attacks somebody in a purely personal way as Lisabob has done, they "project" on that person things that they secretly fear about themselves! In other words when Lisabob writes: "you should be aware that some posters have agendas and will use any excuse to push them. Kudu is one of those posters. Kudu, please don't hijack this thread." It means Lisa: 1) Has agendas (and secretly believes that it is wrong for her to have them!). 2) Will use any excuse (such as your thread) to push them. 3) She is one of "those posters." 4) She has just hijacked this thread. If you looked up ad hominem you will recognize Point #4 right away: By attacking me, "The process of proving or disproving the claim is thereby subverted, and the argumentum ad hominem works to change the subject." In other words she hijacked the thread away from your question "We need an Adult led advancement-oriented troop...thats exactly what we need...How do I find them?" and changed the discussion to, um, KUDU! And it worked, didn't it? Usually a Wood Badge attack includes other holders of the Wood Badge swarming into to "defend" the attacker (they are seriously overdue tonight, aren't they?), and soon everybody is talking about Kudu's personality rather than helping you find a nice adult-led Eagle mill, or explaining why that is not such a good idea. If you "really (really) do not comprehend" something, then try following the URLs and other references, or use Google rather than believing that somebody like "Lisabob" understands it any better than you do. So let's review, shall we Daddy_O? 1) So far I am the only one who that actually answered your question. 2) If you click on the URL I provided, you will see that the Chief Scout Executive agrees with you about camping (Basically, he says that Scouting is all about "character" and "leadership" and you learn those by playing soccer or sitting indoors in front of a computer screen "side by side with adults of character"). 3) Learn Robert Mazzuca's name so you can drop it into conversations at Roundtables, and memorize enough of what he is saying so that you can impress any paid BSA employees (or volunteers with silver tabs) that you ask to help you find an Eagle mill. When they try to tell you that "21st century Scouting" is about moldy stuff like camping, try this: "Is Robert Mazzuca's office aware that you do not support his important new national initiative to 'Reinvent Scouting'?" 4) If you memorize the "Mission of Scouting" and spout it every chance you get, you will soon find a nice adult-led Eagle mill that talks passionately about "values," "leadership," and "rules" (always with the Troop rules) but winks at Camping requirements. One final point: My agenda is: Obey the Boy Scouts of America's Congressional Charter. If you think that 1916 is too "old-fashioned," unfair, and not popular enough with "urban youth" and the Hispanic community, try to have the Charter changed in an orderly manner rather than disobey it. In case you missed it: The purposes of the corporation are to promote, through organization, and cooperation with other agencies, the ability of boys to do things for themselves and others, to train them in scoutcraft, and to teach them patriotism, courage, self-reliance, and kindred virtues, using the methods that were in common use by boy scouts on June 15, 1916. Oh, by the way, one more "final point:" You write: "and never caused his WDL (see, I'm learning!)" Be careful about picking up bad habits. Only a holder of the Wood Badge would use an abbreviation without first spelling out the whole term for readers who are not yet familiar with Scouting jargon. Kudu (This message has been edited by kudu)

Daddy_O, The Scoutmaster split up your son and his best friend? The whole point of the Patrol Method is share great adventures with your best friends. The Scoutmaster might actually agree with that. Did you or your son ask him? He might have just assumed that keeping the Dens together was what the new Scouts wanted. Since this Scoutmaster runs this Troop and you like the whole adult-led thing, then you should simply tell him that your son wants to be in the same Patrol as his best friend. Daddy_O writes: "This is a camping troop, and my kid is really not an outdoor type. He wants to be an Eagle Scout, and earn merit badges. But his plate is full. Were not going to have weekends to camp. I understand that some camping is required, but he will certainly do the minimum. Hell do service though, and work like crazy. Hes declined to go to summer camp as it interferes with his highly-select baseball team." "You guys write derisively about such outfits." Yeah, that would include me Most of the people who want to "broaden the appeal of Scouting" by attracting boys who hate Scoutcraft (camping), are not as honest about it as you are, Daddy_O! They usually justify their actions by citing the "Mission Statement" which was written by office managers who hate Scoutcraft enough to defy an Act of Congress--and then talk piously about the importance of "values" like "obedience." According to our Charter, The purposes of the corporation are to promote, through organization, and cooperation with other agencies, the ability of boys to do things for themselves and others, to train them in scoutcraft, and to teach them patriotism, courage, self-reliance, and kindred virtues, using the methods that were in common use by boy scouts on June 15, 1916. So in an organization that openly disobeys an Act of Congress it should be very easy to find a Troop that offers camping but does not really require it for Eagle. I know a Troop that signs off on "signs of wildlife" for pictures of a puppy, a kitten, a tiger, a bear, and a monkey downloaded from the Internet. The Troop is wildly popular, parents drive past local Troops in their own towns to get to there because they prefer an adult-run advancement Troop that stresses the "Mission of Scouting." Perfect, huh? Daddy_O writes: "We need an Adult led advancement-oriented troop....How do I find them?" Here is how you do it, Daddy_O: First watch the video at the end of this post. Then go to Roundtable and ask the District Executives and/or Commissioners in your Council if they are as excited as you are about the "brave new 21st century" direction that the Chief Scout Executive is taking the Boy Scouts of America. Quote the Chief Scout Executive's reference to camping as "rubbing two sticks together" and snicker. Then ask them if they agree with Robert Mazzuca that your son can learn about character and leadership using aerospace and computers while sitting indoors side by side with adults of character. Most importantly, tell him that you want your son to learn how to do what billionaire CEOs have done to this country with their state of the art "leadership" techniques. Then ask him if he knows of such a "21st century" Troop in your area: You can teach a kid about character and leadership using aerospace and computers. The secret is to get them side by side with adults of character. We run the risk of becoming irrelevant if we don't adapt to things that attract kids today. We recognize the evolving science of leadership. We've had CEOs on our board say they want to send their people to Wood Badge, our adult leader training program, because we use state-of-the-art techniques (Chief Scout Executive Robert Mazzuca, USA Today, 7/20/2008). Tell him or her what you told us, that camping is not necessarily a big thing with you, as a matter of fact it is not big at all. Tell him you are far more interested in what the BSA has for families regarding character development and leadership skill growth. Tell him it is not important to get your son into a tent, and that the reason should be fairly obvious. Tell him how it makes you feel when a Troop says they want to take your ten-year-old son camping but grandma and baby sis can't come! A modern Scout Troop should engage the entire family! The BSA should recognize your issues accommodate them. Tell him that your son would rather play soccer than go camping. Camping is not necessarily a big thing with them, as a matter of fact in some cases it is not big at all. So we need to kind of think about, is it more important that we reach that child with the kind of things we have for children and we have for families in character development and leadership skill growth and all of those things? Or is it more important that we get them in a tent next week? And so I think the answer to that is fairly obvious to us. The other is that marvelous passion for family in the Hispanic world and when we say 'we want to take your twelve-year-old son but you can't come' we're making a mistake there. We have to engage an entire family. We need to reach out and do those sorts of things that recognize their cultural issues and accommodate them. For example one of our pilot programs over the last recent years has been Scouting and soccer, using the attraction of the soccer game to gather Hispanic families around.... (Chief Scout Executive Robert Mazzuca, MSNBC, below). Yes, we write derisively about your needs now, Daddy_O, but when Robert Mazzuca is done with the BSA, Boy Scouts will play soccer. Loyal holders of the Wood Badge will get all weepy and proclaim "Wood Badge has always been about coaching!" http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032619/#29491940 Kudu

GoldFox writes: "Maybe I misunderstood, but I never saw scouting as a religious organization." In the United States, Congress established the BSA as the Boy Scout corporate winner. The BSA uses that government establishment to define "Scouting" as a religious organization, See: http://inquiry.net/ideals/bsa_religious_organization.htm GoldFox writes: "It has a minor part in the Mission and Vision of the BSA as it relates to the Scout Oath and Law. However, I always saw this program as much more about helping to guide young people into being better citizens - not preparing them for a religious ministry." In return for its monopoly on Scouting, the BSA agreed to obey its real "mission statement," the "Purpose" defined by the Congressional Charter: "Sec. 30902. Purposes The purposes of the corporation are to promote, through organization, and cooperation with other agencies, the ability of boys to do things for themselves and others, to train them in scoutcraft, and to teach them patriotism, courage, self-reliance, and kindred virtues, using the methods that were in common use by boy scouts on June 15, 1916." 99% of the BSA's problems could be solved by following Baden-Powell's admonition to keep Patrols separated by at least 100 yards. But compare that kind of Scoutcraft thinking to the BSA's usual justification for moving away from the "old-fashioned" ideas that establish its monopoly: "Mission Statement: The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law." John-in-KC writes: "I like the old-1911 explanation of the 12th point of the Scout Law (yes, Rick, thank you for your comparison page)." You are welcome, John. The Scout Law explanation comparison page can be found at: http://inquiry.net/ideals/scout_law/chart.htm BadenP writes: "I still say without the 12 point of the scout law and the DRP you would even see a large increase in membership." As you can see in the above URL, Baden-Powell originally wrote nine Scout Laws. When the BSA reduced them to single-word laws, it added Brave, Clean, and Reverent. B-P then added "A Scout is clean in thought, word, and deed," but passed on Brave and Reverent. He did say that there was an "unwritten" 11th Scout Law: "A Scout is not a fool." Eagledad writes: "And, if you really think that stepping away from the religious context of scouting would increases the numbers, you only need to look at the recent history of the Canadian scouts, Girl Scouts and Camp Fire Kids. Loses from political activism are minimal compared to loses resulting from even suggesting lowering the bar on the program's moral values, which is how it would be interpreted." I'm not a statistics person, but I have always attributed the decline of Scouts Canada to their abandonment of the Traditional Scout program following the Advance Party Report in 1966. Traditional Scouting advocates in Canada envy the BSA's comparatively intact Tenderfoot through First Class Advancement Method, despite the BSA's desire to be all things to all people: In 1972, "We can be popular with 'urban youth' if we just get rid of all the camping requirements (Those people don't like camping, right?)" And now in 2009 "We can be popular with Hispanics if we just turn Scouting into soccer (Those people don't like camping, right?)" Likewise the Girl Scouts and Camp Fire Kids don't offer real Scouting either. It should be noted that when American religious liberals (Unitarian congregations, at least) think about ways to pass their values on to the next generation, camping once a month is not an option. This is NOT a chicken or the egg thing concerning the BSA's controversial policies, as religious liberals claim. It has always been that way in the United States. In fact UUA membership in the BSA spiked only one time in the last century, the year after the BSA destroyed its Traditional Scouting program in 1972. This anti-get-your-knees-dirty value system is exactly the opposite of countries like Germany, where the many competing Scouting associations are mostly all religious liberals. I have tried to understand that cultural difference for ten years and I still do not have a clue. Kudu

BadenP writes: "Kudu As you know I usually agree with you about many skill sets that the scouting program has lost over the years, however in this case I am sure someone added that line. The wording, "at the whim..." sounds amateurish and unprofessional and I am sure this is an individual trying to inject his own beliefs into the training." The document can be found at: http://inquiry.net/adult/whim.htm As you can see, it appears to have been copied from a copy of a copy, reminiscent of the days before desktop publishing. Apparently it was not something that someone produced for this year's WB course. If fact one of our Troop's Committee Members attending the Roundtable asked me if I wanted her to "type out a fresh copy for the boys." As Neil points out, the term that they were probably looking for was "serves at the pleasure of." As I noted in my initial post, the thing that caught my eye was the mixing of two different editorial styles, the lower case patrol "leader," and the capitalization of "Senior Patrol Leader." The later is in the style introduced by Green Bar Bill which has not been used by the BSA since the end of the golden era of Hillcourt's Patrol Method. This document came down from the highest local level. The last meeting got too heated, but the next time I attend Roundtable I will casually ask him if he knows from where it originally came. Kudu

GopherJudy writes: "I know that in my other post, someone posted a link from Kudu's site but it was hard for me to see the hiking staves as the pictures were small for my eyes that are getting older." I re-scanned the smaller image using greyscale this time. Let me know if you can see that better. I also added another collection of uses for a Hiking Staff. See: http://www.inquiry.net/outdoor/skills/staff_use.htm It is possible that your browser is automatically re-sizing the images so that the whole picture fits on your sreen. On my browser I can restore the bigger size by clicking on the image. You can turn this setting off in the Internet Explorer browser by unchecking "Enable automatic image resizing" under Tools -> Internet Options -> Advanced -> Multimedia Kudu

"As intelligence officer for the Mediterranean area, Baden-Powell was in charge of gathering and submitting to the War Office information on the disposition of troops and ships of the different countries, their armament and other items of military value. "He first turned his eyes south and decided to go 'snipe hunting' in Tunis and Algeria. On his first trip to these North African countries, both of them French regencies, Baden-Powell focused his attention on Bizerta.... "B-P took a room in Bizerta overlooking the canal and the lake and spent several days roaming the town and the surrounding area, ostensibly looking for birds in the snipe bogs. When he had gathered all the data he considered pertinent he went inland with a guide, an interpreter, and a couple of beaters, for an honest-to-goodness snipe shoot at a farm owned by a British settler, near Mateur.... "On other trips to North Africa, the inquisitive Baden-Powell covered the area from Nemours in French Algeria to Tripoli, the capital of Turkish Tripoli, by sea, by railway, by diligence, on horseback and on foot. He visited Oran and Algiers, Constantine and Biskra, Tunis and Kairouan, Sousse and Gabes. He went 'snipe shooting' and snipe shooting, watched the maneuvers of Spahis and Chasseurs d'Afrique, witnessed the obvious growth of the harbour of Bizerta into a major French naval base -- and sent reams of reports and scores of sketches and maps off to England." When it came time for B-P to resign as military secretary and return to his regiment in time to take part in the spring training, the Governor sent B-P's resignation to London. "The War Office's telegram accepting B-P's resignation contained a bouquet for his work as Intelligence Officer in the form of a grant of 40 [English Pounds] for a side trip on the way home, for 'snipe hunting' in Algeria" (Baden Powell: The Two Lives of a Hero, William Hillcourt, Pages 96-101). It is not unreasonable to assume that there may have been early Scouting games based on B-P's snipe hunt subterfuge. Many of the games that appear in Baden-Powell's book, Scouting Games http://inquiry.net/outdoor/games/b-p/index.htm are based on stalking, cunning, stealth, and spying. Most likely early "snipe hunts" would have been tests of vigilance by Patrols "scouting" the Troop or other Patrols. These sort of activities date back to the Brownsea Campout and B-P himself, "The boys on sentry duty during night picket took their jobs seriously -- and well they might: there were 'enemies' about. "One night, for instance, the van Raalte's young son and daughter decided to 'invade' the camp. They were 'arrested' and sent on their way home. Another night, a party of ladies and gentlemen -- visitors at Brownsea Castle -- were intercepted during a twilight stroll. "Even Baden-Powell himself became the victim of a night picket sentry on one of this attempts to 'scout' a patrol. He was spotted by his nephew, Donald, hanging on for dear life to a tree limb overhead" (Baden-Powell: The Two Lives of a Hero, Page 271). Kudu

CA_Scouter writes: "Would it help if we keep the participants 300 feet apart?" Yes, that will solve everything. Baden-Powell's suggestion that Patrols be kept a minimum of 100 yards apart on multi-Patrol campouts is the closest most "21st century" Troops can come to meeting William Hillcourt's BSA definition of a "Real Patrol" (one that hikes and camps without adult supervision). If you read "What is Expected of Me" on page 8 of The Patrol Leader Handbook you will see that all 12 points are concerned with being a business manager and a good boy. There is no hint of adventure! (Only "activities," which the Chief Scout Executive defines as "sitting side by side with adults of character"). 300 feet is all about inexpensive adventure on a monthly basis. It might not seem like much to you, but to boys it is something special, especially after dark. It requires real leadership, not the six-month-wonder TLT skills that replaced "Patrol Leader Training." William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt was not able to overturn the BSA's YMCA legacy of boring schoolwork Merit Badges and adult-run Boards of Review, but through the force of the office of James West he did temporarily return to America a "lite" version of Baden-Powell's Patrol System, which the YMCA had stamped out in 1910 and business nerds stamped out again in 1965 and 1972 with their introduction of six-month POR requirements in 1965 (the year of GBB's retirement), and the invention of "Leadership Development" seven years later. The 300' "Real" Patrol Method puts everything into a more boy-friendly perspective and naturally orders adult priorities. Yes, and 99% of the BSA's popularity problems can be solved by moving the Patrols 100 yards apart. Everything else follows from that single physical reality. Kudu

You can always tell a bad idea in Scouting by how quickly someone quotes the "rules." The irony is that the BSA is the only Scouting association on earth that tries to keep their rules away from their volunteers. The only actual BSA rules that most of us have ever read are the occasional passages that appear in bold print in publications such as the Guide to Safe Scouting. How many of you "obey the secret rules" advocates teach your Scouts to follow your personal example and sign things they do not bother to read? Boards of Review are a bad idea looking for a new purpose. Currently that purpose is to: 1) Provide "feedback" to a bunch of adults called a "Troop Committee." 2) Turn Scouting into business school by subjecting boys to job interviews. 3) Keep Scouting adult-run (in conjunction with other anti-Patrol Method practices such as Scoutmaster Conferences, Blue Cards, six-month PORs, and the ultimate adult-run wild card called "Scout Spirit" requirements). 4) Maintain the "Troop Method" (which is why Scouts serving on Boards of Review is just another bad idea looking for a new purpose). The original purpose of Boards of Review (at the time called "Courts of Honor" in the BSA) was to take the power of advancement away from the individual Patrol Leaders (collectively what Baden-Powell at the time called the "Court of Honor") and turn Scouting into school (yet another YMCA-inspired direct violation of B-P's most fundamental principles of Scouting) Courts of Honor in the BSA were a nightmare of written and oral examinations conducted by the local Council (The Scout Masters' Handbook, first edition, page 64). See: http://inquiry.net/adult/methods/1st/064-Scout_Exams.htm If a Scout did poorly in his written exams, his entire Patrol was penalized by a point system maintained by the local Council (ibid, page 67). Courts of Honor were based on the premise that a Scout is not really Trustworthy. According to the BSA theories that established BORs, the Scoutmaster (not the Patrol Leader) was the "real leader" (In fact that was one of the official BSA six methods of Scouting at the time ("The Scout Master as a Real Leader"): "Care should be taken by the Scout Master that the patrol leaders do not have too great authority in the supervision of their patrols. The success of the troop affairs and supervision of patrol progress is, in the last analysis, the responsibility of the Scout Master and not that of the patrol leader...The activities of the patrol should not be left to the judgment of any patrol leader..." (ibid, page 85), See: http://inquiry.net/adult/methods/1st/index.htm But "Scout Masters" could not be trusted to sign off on their own Scouts either! So in areas without local Council offices to administer school examinations, the "rules" (that everyone loved so much at the time) required Scoutmasters to find another local Troop to conduct these batteries of written and oral examinations (ibid, page 64). So Scouts helping conduct BORs or not: When you put lipstick on a pig, it is still a pig. My unit-based solution? Turn the BOR into a scavenger hunt in which a Scout is required to identify three Committee Members and collect their signatures in his handbook. The only rule is that when challenged, a Committee Member must acknowledge his position and sign the Scout's handbook immediately. If that adult is not a dult, he or she should be able to use the opportunity to strike up a productive conversation with the Scout. If not, then why institutionalize their incompetency by giving them power over that Scout? For those who insist that a Board of Review should teach job skills, the "Board of Review Scavenger Hunt" has obvious transferable skills in the exciting field of process serving! As far as "rules" go, maybe Beavah or anyone with a copy of the elusive BSA rules & regulations, can check to see if the so-called "Advancement Policies" are actual rules? Unless they appear in bold print in the uncensored publications, they are probably just the opinions of some national advancement committee. The "Centennial Uniform" proves that we can always find loopholes to get around these anti-real-Scouting old men who serve on national Scouting committees. Kudu(This message has been edited by kudu)

I have a goldmine for you, although most of it concerns the Boy Scout program rather than Cubs. When the District Commissioner asked me to become Scoutmaster for his son's Troop, I asked the former Scoutmaster why he was leaving. He actually sat down and wrote me a list of 86 reasons! See: http://inquiry.net/adult/burnout.htm Our Council asked me to take the page down (which I did) ... but since I have now left the north forever I will put it back up until someone else complains (which they will). Everyone will find some things with which they agree, and some with which they disagree with some anger. He stayed on as an Assistant Scoutmaster during the transition, so reasons #32, #74, and #76 were aimed very specifically at me! #74 may come as a surprise to some folks Kudu

* Take a leading role in planning and conducting patrol meetings and activities. * Encourage patrol members to fully participate in the Wood Badge Course and achieve all they can. * Represent the Patrol at the Patrol Leaders Council (PLC) * Set a good example by living the Scout Oath and Law. * Practice using the leadership and team skills being presented during Wood Badge presentations. * Ensure that the daily patrol self-assessments are carried out in a timely, effective manner. * Provide patrol members with the resources and information they need to succeed. * Empower the patrol to become a high-performance team. * See that the patrol is prepared for all course presentations and activities. * Patrol leaders serve at the whim of the Senior Patrol Leader Role and Responsibilities of the Assistant Patrol Leader...(etc.) Eamonn, The list that was handed out last night is identical, except for the additions in bold above. The additions appear in the same type font as the rest of the page. The suggested wording for the Gilwell Gazette must come from somewhere. Again, the page number appears to be "I-17-A" Kudu

Last night at Roundtable we were given a copy of "Roles and Responsibilities," extras from the Wood Badge course last weekend. We were told "Your boys might find this useful." Under "Role and Responsibilities of the Patrol Leader" it lists the usual "attend meetings and set a good example" stuff that passes for the "Patrol Method" these days. When I got to the last item I thought that perhaps this was some kind of test, so I read it out-loud twice: "Patrol leaders serve at the whim of the Senior Patrol Leader" [capitalization as in the original, btw]. "Patrol leaders serve at the whim of the Senior Patrol Leader?" I repeated laughing, "That can not be right!" Well the presenter mumbled something to the effect of "Yes that is correct," but with a hurt tone in his voice so I did not follow up. Is that REALLY what Wood Badge is teaching these days? The page number is "I-17-A" or maybe "1-17-A." Kudu

"In my troop Patrol leaders are only responsible for their patrols so troop meetings are organized by the SPL and ASPLs." Yes, the Troop Method The invention of "Leadership Development" moved SPL selection away from the PLC and replaced it with Troop-wide elections. In the Patrol Method, the SPL reports to the PLC (the Patrol Leaders who selected him). The Troop Method reverses that: The Patrol Leaders report to the SPL. In the Patrol Method, the Handbook for Patrol Leaders is a 400 page adventure book. In the Troop Method the Patrol Leader Handbook is a 130 page pamphlet featuring only 8 pages of practical outdoor adventure information (pages 73-81). The rest is mostly business manager filler such as Troop-level "Organizational Charts" (with a Scoutmaster-->SPL-->PL hierarchy, of course), Troop-level job descriptions, photographs of Troop-level POR patches, and tips on how to attend a Troop-level business meeting. "That would be severe burnout on the part of the SPL if he didn't have help as every meeting is different. There's a main theme/skill/demo as well as a game...So our ASPLs are busy." In the Patrol Method the main theme is selected by the PLC and the skill demo is produced by the "Program Patrol" of the week or month. Each Patrol takes its turn as Program Patrol and then "Service Patrol" (setting up the meeting room before the meeting, and cleaning up afterwards), thus avoiding burnout and keeping Scouting Patrol-based rather than Troop-based. See: http://inquiry.net/patrol/troop/01_ingredients.htm The Patrol Method keeps the best talent as Patrol Leaders rather than as ASPL Troop administrators. Kudu

"they have 2 scouts and 5 leaders...they can get one more scout, but not 3 for another 10 months..." How do they know they can't get 3 more Scouts? And why 10 months? If you can find access to a local school during school hours and if you offer old school, down and dirty Scouting (rather than "ethical choices" and business management hyped as "leadership"), 2/3 of sixth-graders will sign up. In turn, 1/3 of them will register as Scouts. See: http://inquiry.net/adult/recruiting.htm The last month of sixth grade is a good time to offer summer camping to boys because most of them are now 12 years old and noticeably more adaptable to the Patrol Method than they were in September. Kudu

Lisabob writes: "Other than stepping in for the SPL in the event of his absence,..." Yeah, and the wisdom of placing an appointed ASPL in charge of elected Patrol Leaders in the SPL's absence is highly questionable. The current middle-management ASPL theory (supervising appointed PORs) is just the latest evolution of a bad idea looking for a legitimate new purpose. We used the ASPL position for the application of the Peter Principle: A face-saving place to which an incompetent Patrol Leader can be promoted once the Patrol and the SPL have agreed on his replacement. Good ASPLs are a waste of talent. There is no reason why the SPL can't keep track of the Scouts he appoints. A good Patrol Leader can always act as SPL in his absence (or in small Troops that do not waste talent on an SPL position either). Yours in the Old School, Kudu

Do what I did: Just volunteer to staff all the courses that you need to be officially "re-Trained." Be sure to carefully read the Patrol Method session of the Scoutmaster-specific training course outline (you will probably be the first Staffer in your Council who has). See if you find ANY mention of what was once known as the Patrol Method :-/ Kudu

At the very first Boy Scout campfire ever, on Brownsea Island, Baden-Powell introduced "The Scout's Chorus" (Eengonyama). The hypnotic beat is drummed out with Scout Staves as a Scout jumps into the circle of campfire light, mimes out his part in a hunting exploit or Patrol battle, then jumps back to be replaced by another Scout, and then another. I've always thought that would be the perfect place for drums. See B-P's detailed "Scout War Dance" description: http://inquiry.net/outdoor/campfire/songs/war_songs.htm Kudu

"Mute" can also mean "I don't WANT to talk." When deaf kids try to speak, the reactions of kids who don't know them can be mortifying. "I don't think you'll be able to sit down with a scout's mom and have her teach you all the bad words her boy may know." Now there is a priceless image No matter how seriously you study all those "naughty words" you can't keep boys from being boys: 1) You can't "overhear" sign, if you follow them around they will merely turn a certain way to block your view. 2) In deaf schools where adults sign as well or better than the students, the kids merely develop their own group shorthand (sign slang) for when teachers are looking straight at them. It is like Indian smoke signals, where everyone can see but the meaning is secret. Kudu

1) Boys have a natural curiosity about mystery, secrecy, and all things beyond common comprehension, such as "secret" codes and languages. Consider purchasing a couple copies of Martin Sternberg's "American Sign Language Dictionary." These are VERY popular with Scouts because they soon discover that natural bodily functions are not censored As result our deaf and hearing Scouts became passionate researchers, giddy from signing the same jokes with minor variations over and over and over for hours and hours and hours under the noses of we clueless adults, silent except for laughter as they gleaned new signs from the dictionary. Used copies cost less than $10 each, see: http://tinyurl.com/djn7ny 2) At one time this universal boy fascination with codes was reflected in the BSA First Class Signalling requirement that could be earned with "Deaf Mute" Sign Language (ASL), Indian Sign Language, Morse code, or semaphore. Depending on Troop culture, some hearing Scouts prefer to learn a neutral signing system such as Indian Sign Language, which requires the deaf Scouts to start out on the same level. See the Online Indian Sign Language Dictionary: http://inquiry.net/outdoor/native/sign/index.htm Some of these activities can be used or adapted for Troop use and for Camporees. A Indian Sign Language Troop Meeting can be found at: http://inquiry.net/outdoor/native/sign/vitalizing.htm Sign Language Council Fire: http://inquiry.net/outdoor/native/sign/council_fire.htm Silent Camp Weekend: http://inquiry.net/outdoor/native/sign/camp_ideas.htm My favorite, the song "Taps" in Sign: http://inquiry.net/outdoor/native/sign/taps.htm 3) The BSA publishes a pamphlet with the Scout Law and Scout Oath in ASL. We used these at the opening of every Troop meeting, and then volunteered our services for opening and closing ceremonies at Camporees, Roundtables, OA, and other Council meetings. 4) Our deaf Scouts loved slap stick campfire skits, the more "violent" the better. We spent a few minutes at every meeting adding ASL to campfire skits as an interesting novelty at Camporees. 5) Carrying small pocket notebooks can help adults who are not a quick study at ASL to communicate with deaf Scouts. Kudu

The original Second Class Journey in England was designed to test a Tenderfoot Scout's mastery of his Second Class skills by sending him (and a buddy) out on an eight (8) mile trek without the supervision, aid, or guidance of any adults or older Scouts: "Your Patrol Leader will set your route, and a specific objective will be given. Make an oral report from notes to your Patrol Leader immediately upon your return. Your Scoutmaster must know your hiking route, and must approve your plan in advance. If additional Scouts are taking the test, each will report independently." This was jolly good preparation for the similar unsupervised First Class Journey of 15 miles in England, or 14 miles in the United States. Note that the current BSA wording does not rule out such a remarkably memorable Journey: "b. Using a compass and a map together, take a 5-mile hike (or 10 miles by bike) approved by your adult leader and your parent or guardian." Kudu (This message has been edited by kudu)

Eamonn writes: "But if we are going to try and get young people to learn how to make ethical choices? I can't think of a better way then allowing them to camp for a weekend alone away from the adults." I agree, even if these days "allowing them to camp for a weekend alone away from the adults" means only 300' away from the other Patrols as Baden-Powell suggested for whole-Troop campouts. Kudu

The purposes of the corporation are to promote, through organization, and cooperation with other agencies, the ability of boys to do things for themselves and others, to train them in scoutcraft, and to teach them patriotism, courage, self-reliance, and kindred virtues, using the methods that were in common use by boy scouts on June 15, 1916. According to the BSA's REAL "mission statement" we are ABSOLUTELY a CAMPING CLUB! As you can see, the so-called "Three Aims of Scouting" and the upstart "Leadership Development Method" are ONLY A THEORY! The BSA's REAL "three aims" are to use the methods in common use by Boy Scouts on June 15, 1916 to: 1) To promote the ability of boys to do things for themselves and others. 2) To train them in Scoutcraft 3) To teach them patriotism, self-reliance, and kindred virtues Most problems in Scouting today come from the limitations of the current Aims & Methods theory. A much better "Aims" theory can be found on page 13 of the 2nd edition of "The Handbook for Scoutmasters." It has TWO SETS OF AIMS, one for the Adults, and one for the Scouts. In this model, Scouting is a "train" that runs on "railroad tracks" that NEVER intersect: -----------------------------ADULT AIMS (Character & Citizenship)---------------------------------> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Scouting~~~> -----------------------------BOY AIMS (Pleasure & Interest)-----------------------------------------> "Only can the adult hope to effect his aims as he does so through the boy's interests. The 'train' of the adult program must 'run' on the 'tracks' of the boy's interests pulled by the boy's enthusiasm." The idea that Scouting is NOT a "camping club" comes from Adults who promote manager theory, which (hyped as "leadership") has become an "Adult Aim" for them. Mafaking, if you teach your natural leaders the Scoutcraft they need for the Scout Aim of OUTDOOR ADVENTURE, your adult Aims will take care of themselves. Boy Scouts can learn all they need to know about "Citizenship in the Nation" by reading the Congressional Charter and then watching their Scoutmaster try to teach them EDGE theory Kudu