Kudu

The idea that you need two Patrols to use the "Patrol Method" is the Troop Method, not the Patrol Method. In the Patrol Method our central concern is building a Patrol that can function independently. In the Troop Method the Patrols are merely subunits, and we focus on stuff like "leadership positions" and "controlled failure." I never split a new Troop of a dozen Scouts into two Patrols. One solid Patrol teaches them how a Patrol actually works. Scoutmasters do indeed make these decisions until a Patrol can camp 300 feet away without him hovering nearby. Until Scouts have experienced what Green Bar Bill calls a "Real" Patrol, they have no business making decisions about the Patrol Method. SPL and ASPL in Troop of less than four Patrols is the Troop Method. ASPL is always a waste of leadership talent unless you use it to park Patrol Leaders who prove to be incompetent: "Why don't you go supervise the Troop Historian and Bugler, Tommy?" Kudu

The two volume BSA masterpiece, Handbook for Scoutmasters, that Eagle92 encourages you to read is available through AddAll for about $15 per volume. See: http://tinyurl.com/29xgbxa William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt's six-month Patrol Leader Training Course, "Intensive Training in the Green Bar Patrol" can be read at: http://kudu.net/patrol/green_bar/index.htm If you have access to a school, you will find that 70% of sixth-graders will sign a list (in front of their peers) to join your Troop if you describe it as dangerous adventure. Of course your outdoor skills have to be up to par to make good on that promise. See: http://kudu.net/adult/recruiting.htm Is the older Scout a natural leader? When I work with a Troop of ten Scouts that young, I keep them together as one Patrol under a Patrol Leader, and skip all the SPL, ASPL nonsense. Separate the Patrol from the adults as far as possible. Start with 50 feet and work up to Baden-Powell's minimum standard of 300 feet. Kudu

Self-conscious actors in the hands of a remarkably dreadful writer/director. I have a copy. I would love to watch it just so I can describe in detail just how remarkably awful it is, but I can't bear more than a couple of minutes at a time. I have skipped around the DVD to find one scene that is not repulsive. Just one. No luck so far. In the meantime here are a couple of reviews from IMDb that confirm my own reaction to the random 20 minutes that I have invested in the movie so far: 7 out of 9 people found the following review useful: I can't believe I watched the whole thing, 26 December 2009 Author: Michael Meehan from United States As a veteran of the terrible Mormon flick Suddenly Unexpected, it was unexpected that any movie could match the atrocity contained within that film. Suddenly, along came Scout Camp. This movie not only holds the title of worst Mormon film in existence; it is also a candidate for worst movie ever made. It seems as though the casting director thought they could distract the audience from the horrendous script and visibly low budget with two leads who were in decent movies in the past (Kirby Heyborne of Saints and Soldiers; Shawn Carter of High School Musical). Of course, for most of the movie Kirby looks ridiculous and very distracting sporting two band-aids over his eyebrows, and Shawn Carter is not a name any one would recognize from the HSM series, so the attempt was in vain. The movie's highest accolade would be that it looks like something made at a Scout Camp by scouts in one week. But then again, that would be insulting to those, like myself, who earned the cinematography merit badge at a scout camp and came away with semi-decent movies. Certain scenes in Scout Camp have unnecessary camera angle changes that make me want to throw up. Did I say certain? I meant all of them. It gives the impression that they made most of the story up as they went along, probably each morning loading the young actors with tons of sugar hoping they'd do something funny in a hyper frenzy. Sorry Scout Camp, but your reputation, much like the Fire Dragons', is ruined. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4 out of 4 people found the following review useful: A disappointing attempt to make a Boy Scout movie, 4 November 2009 Author: schatz5 from United States A story about a scout troop that goes to a camp and encounters supposedly typical summer camp experiences. This movie doesn't work on several levels. There are many mistakes of a Scouting nature (not using two-deep leadership, hazing is shown, the adult leader is portrayed as stupid and ineffectual, camp staff is abusive to adults, the rifle range director stands in front of guns, many examples of not using the buddy system). The plot is very lame. I could not show this to my scout troop nor to adults. While they obviously had scout knowledgeable advice in making the film, the filmmakers only listened to what they wanted to hear. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1288505/

A few people asked about GPS Scout Games in the past. Nobody answered. So I adapted a couple of hundred-year-old Wide Games and they went pretty well: A Treasure Hunt and Man Hunt. This weekend we held our second beginners' "back-woods" campout (backpack about a half-mile from the Troop trailer). I purchased a few GPS units from Ebay and watched a "Bennett Media Presents" instructional DVD. I blundered around my neighborhood as I learned how to mark a series of "Waypoints" (or "Points of Interest" --POI-- depending on the model of the GPS) and then later return to the waypoints. Being old-school, this was my first experience with GPS but it was remarkably easy, even on the older, more "analog" units. TREASURE HUNT Last Wednesday I spent the day marking a series of 25 waypoints in a big circle around the camp in a random zig-zag pattern, with each leg of the hike approximately 600 feet long. On Saturday the Troop's two best leaders (plus a 14 year-old new transfer from another Troop, and a 16 year-old intellectual -- last year he was a monarchist, this year an Ann Rand libertarian) then followed my waypoints to pin little packs of Skittles to the trees with thumbtacks. This was the Troop's first experience with Scout-Led with no adult supervision so I picked four-deep junior-leadership for that. This left two 13 year-olds to supervise setting up the Patrol sites, which I had separated more than a football field apart. Their first experience ever with the Patrol Method was strictly intuitive. It worked just fine, maybe because none of them have yet heard of EDGE :-/ It turned out that I had made a big mistake when I laid out the course. I had one unit in my hand, and an additional three units in my pockets. So when I marked the waypoints with the unit in my hand it was connected to about nine satellites, but when I did the same with the units from my pockets, I never realized that they were connected to only a couple of satellites. The temperature was about 94 degrees, which combined with the humidity proved to be too much for the four Scouts. One of them declined to lead the first group of Scouts on the treasure hunt, and the other three dropped out after that, so the adults had to step up for the second Patrol's turn. On the first Treasure Hunt the Scouts had taken turns with the unit that had been connected to the nine satellites, while the next Scout in line followed along with the second unit. One of the junior leaders had a third unit just to make sure they were headed in the right general direction. I had a fourth unit (a Garmin Colorado 400T) back at camp so that if they ran into trouble they could radio us and we could head to that waypoint. The second Patrol quickly turned it into a contest between the two Scouts with the GPS units. The first one to the tree got the candy. The loser got the GPS that had been fixed on nine satellites. He and the next Scout then dialed up the next waypoint. Therefore the Scout who had a better mastery of the software got a significant head start. Being brand-new to GPS, I was amazed to see that in many cases the four leaders had pinned the candy to the exact same tree at which I had been standing when I set the waypoint the previous Wednesday! MAN HUNT That evening two of the older Scouts took one of the GPS units and headed out to one of the waypoints, about a half-mile away. They communicated by radio with two older Scouts who each had a GPS unit to lead the two Patrols into the general area. The hiding Scouts each had a laser, which could be seen at least 1/4 mile away, even through the trees! The basic strategy was for one of these Scouts to draw the pursers to him with his laser. When a Patrol got a football field away, the other Scout would then reveal his position with his laser, while the first Scout slipped away in the darkness to reposition himself. The radios did not work very well for some reason, but the cell phone coverage was good enough at the top of the hill for the Scouts to all text each other :-/ The three units that I picked up on Ebay were the Magellan "eXplorist 400." One of them failed to communicate with my PC (to update the firmware) even though it still had the protective film over the screen. Because I had purchased map software for each unit from Magellan, they actually allowed me to exchange the defective unit for their newer model, a "Triton 400"! The Scouts love this one because the graphics are more intuitive to electronic game players. As it turns out you can purchase refurbished Triton 400s (a superior unit that comes with a 90 day warranty) for under $90 on Amazon, about the same as I over-paid for the old "legacy" eXplorist 400s on Ebay. The map software is nice, but in Florida where everything is flat I have not yet found a use for it. Next campout we will play GPS Laser Man Hunt on Friday night to tire them out, then GPS "Capture the Flag" on Saturday night. For 84 hundred-year-old Wide Games that you can adapt to electronics, see: http://inquiry.net/outdoor/games/wide/index.htm Yours in the Old School, Kudu

At our most recent staff meeting for Scoutmaster & ASM-Specific Training, I mentioned that Leadership Development had removed the Patrol Leader and any description of a working Patrol from the PATROL METHOD presentation, and replaced them with EDGE. Our training chair and her female assistant told us NOT to add them back in! We did anyway :-/ Online position-specific training will provide Wood Badge "leadership" experts with a direct line to volunteers so that they can deliver the pure EDGE message. This prevents old-timers from adding "old-fashioned" stuff that has no longer has anything to do with the "21st century" PATROL METHOD (like Patrols, Patrol Leaders, and applied Scoutcraft skills) Kudu

Adult-led much? In a Scout-led Troop, a take-charge SPL will want to attend Committee meetings. The SM should run interference for him if necessary, and they should have a way of communicating during the meeting. It is a little hard for a new SPL to understand that the Committee (including his parents and his friends' parents) should be working for the Patrol Leaders and not the other way around. Remember that Troop Committee involvement in any internal matters, along with Boards of Review, Scoutmaster Conferences, Scout Spirit advancement requirements, POR requirements, regular elections, leadership development, classroom Merit Badges, and Blue Cards were ALL invented by American adults to keep Scouting adult-run. None of that existed in B-P's program in the rest of the world. The Patrol Leaders, not the parents, should run the Troop. One of Baden-Powell's rules was that the Court of Honor (PLC) controls the Troop funds. To understand adult-run just follow the money: 234. (ii) The S.M. will, however, delegate as far as possible, to the Court of Honour as in Rule 242 all internal matters of discipline and administration, including the expenditure of Troop funds 242. (i) The Court of Honour is a body composed of the Troop Leader [sPL], if any, and the Patrol Leaders; Seconds may also be members, but their presence is not desirable in cases concerning discipline. The Scouters of the Troop, if present, should act in an advisory capacity only. (ii) The Court of Honour deals with internal matters, including the expenditure of Troop funds See: http://inquiry.net/traditional/por/groups.htm For an example of how these Patrol Leaders run a Troop without an adult Committee, see: http://inquiry.net/patrol/court_honor/coh_session.htm Yours in Scoutcraft, Kudu

The two-volume, third edition of Handbook for Scoutmasters to which Eagle92 refers can be purchased for about $15 per volume through AddAll. See: http://tinyurl.com/29xgbxa William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt's Patrol Leadership course, called "Intensive Training in the Green Bar Patrol" can be found at: http://inquiry.net/patrol/green_bar/index.htm This is intensive outdoor leadership training which teaches the "meat and potatoes" of Scouting: How to organize a Patrol Hike (and then a Patrol Overnight) so that all of a Patrol's outdoor experiences are based on physical distance and are entertaining to adventure-seeking boys. "Intensive Training in the Green Bar Patrol" is the training course to which the "Train them" in Green Bar Bill's famous aphorism refers: "Train 'em, Trust 'em, Let them lead." To that end it is all about how to actually lead a Patrol in the field, rather than learning clever formulas like EDGE (or the older "11 Leadership Skills"). Likewise, the games in this course are focused on fun while passing the miles, and how a Patrol Leader teaches Scoutcraft skills, as opposed to "team-building exercises" that supposedly teach universal "leadership" principles. Hillcourt's formula is: 1. Be a Leader; 2. Be a Friend; 3. Be Ahead. This is not content for a PowerPoint presentation that will help a Patrol Leader fill out a duty roster or work in a corporate office. It is a way to remember the physical experience of participating in the outdoor-based Green Bar Patrol. "Be a Leader" refers to being physically in front of Patrol-based adventure (rather than being a "facilitator of learning"). "Be a Friend" these days might translate to "servant leadership." "Be Ahead" refers to the mastery of applied Scoutcraft: The ability to use outdoor skills for independent Patrol adventure (as opposed to learning advancement skills so that you can check them off a list). This requires hands-on training out in the field. Kudu

The PowerPoint file can be found at the BSA NE Region Youth Staff Development Course Website. See: http://www.nylt-ysdc.org/edge.ppt The presentation includes the Holy Grail of NYLT & Wood Badge Training: the Root Beer Song. This is why Wood Badge courses now offer boxes of tissue. When sung with purpose and meaning, its profound meaning will bring tears to the eyes of all leadership theory enthusiasts. The Wood Badge/NYLT Root Beer Song Dough: The stuff that buys my root beer Ray: The guy that pours my root beer Me: The guy that drinks my root beer Fa: a long way to the john So: Let's have another root beer La: A lotta lotta root beer Tea: No thanks, I'm having root beer And that leaves me with no dough, dough, dough, dough (repeat) Consider a ceremony upon completion of the course in which you present them with the new YLT Under Armour T-shirt. It is hot pink in color and features "Youth Leadership Training!" on the front, and the lyrics to the Root Beer Song on the back. Kudu

I have a good eye for photography and I started buying bulk film and processing it myself in the sixth grade. I "kind of" understand mechanical things like film cameras, but not electronics! Nikon: I didn't know anything about digital cameras so I bought a Nikon "Coolpix 775," figuring Nikon must be the best, right? Ugh! What a mistake! It took three or four seconds from the time I pressed the shutter button until the camera took the picture. That may not sound like a lot of time, but it is with active, fast-moving Scouts. After a while the camera died with the lens open. I Googled the error message and found out that a very high number of Nikon Coolpix cameras from that era died an early death from dust getting into lens gears. So much for Nikon quality. Kodak: I bought a Kodak EasyShare C913 from Amazon after reading some really glowing reviews. What I didn't realize was that digital camera technology had moved past old-fashioned viewfinders. In this camera, you compose the shot by looking at the LCD screen on the back of the camera. Ugh! In the sun I can NOT see anything on that screen. Really. All I can do is point the camera in the general direction and press the shutter. That was not acceptable to me because I like very tight in-camera composition. I bought a Delkin "Pop-Up Shade" but it did not help. On the plus side, the EasyShare cameras are inexpensive and take good pictures. There is very little lag after you press the shutter button. The Kodak batteries are VERY good if you can figure out which ones to buy (not easy on Amazon). I purchased four Kodak Ni-MH KAA2HR "Digital Camera Battery Packs," in case I could not recharge them at summer camp, but that was overkill. They work forever between charges. Nikon: I still needed a digital camera with a traditional viewfinder, so I started reading the reviews for the high-end Nikon Coolpix cameras, figuring that Nikon must have solved the problems with the early Coolpix models by now, and Nikon is the best, right? I started by reading the reviews for the most expensive Coolpix, but one of the reviewers said she had to return it because she bought it to photograph her kids, and the lag after she pressed the shutter button was just too long. The kids were out of the photograph by the time the shutter actually clicked. Ugh! That sounded all too familiar, so I did not give Nikon a second chance. Canon: I ended up with a Canon "PowerShot SX10IS." Fantastic camera! Viewfinder: I needed viewfinder composition, but I did not need (or want) a true SLR (interchangeable lenses). I considered a more expensive model that takes HD videos, but the viewfinder is not as bright and I didn't think I needed HD videos for YouTube. For me it was all about the viewfinder. Lens: The 20X optical zoom lens is remarkable to us old timers. That is the equivalent of a 28mm to 560mm zoom in a 35mm film format! The longest lens I ever owned before was 210mm, and to use a lens that long, I always needed a tripod. Canon's "optical image stabilization" actually cancels out most of that movement after you press the shutter. BUT because 20X is such a long lens, it is hard to keep your subject in the viewfinder when taking a hand-held picture. Consider a Canon "Monopod 100" if you like to take candid long shots from the distance of a football field away. B-P "300 feet between Patrols" approved! The monopod is much easier to use in most Scouting situations than a tripod, and it makes the Scouts less self-conscious when you work from a distance. Video: I have ended up using the video function more than I expected. On the Troop Website I feature still portraits of each Scout, which then hyperlink to YouTube with individual videos of that Scout shooting rifles, shotgun, and archery. These videos are very popular and have helped in our recruiting efforts. ISO: One must-have "killer" feature is the ISO 3200 setting. Have you ever taken a photograph of Scouts sitting in the magical light of a campfire only to be disappointed in the results? 3200 ISO is so bright that even a small two-log campfire bathes the Scouts in the glow of remarkably bright firelight. This is otherwise impossible to capture, especially hand-held! Accessories: Because I did not know what kinds of batteries and SD cards to buy, I made the mistake of buying a package deal (a camera with accessories). Don't do that. The Zeikos battery charger stopped working after a week, and the 2700 mAh batteries only lasted a couple of months. Likewise for the 2900 mAh batteries I purchased from Amazon. Hint: Never buy batteries with the mAh rating (rather than the brand name) featured in large bold numbers on the side :-/ Unfortunately all those Kodak "Digital Camera Battery Packs" that I bought for my EasyShare camera do not fit in my Canon. I purchased Kodak 2500mAh AA batteries and I am very happy with them, even though the rating is less than the number hyped by other brands. I use two or three sets of four on a typical weekend campout or Eagle Project (but I take hundreds of photos and videos -- I actually filled an 8GB SD card this weekend! Pentax Optio: I also bought a Pentax Optio W60 underwater camera, since my Nikon had stopped working after a ocean beach campout and an inner tube float trip. It solves the camera-killing problems of sand and water, but it cost almost as much as my Canon, even though it is basically a point-and-shoot camera. A year later I haven't used it yet! Yours in the Old School, Kudu

13,500 new scouting places have been created this year thanks to 2,871 new adult volunteers - up 3.1% on 2009 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8628871.stm Is there a correlation between an outdoorsman role model and the popularity of Scouting? On 17 May 2009, the The Scout Association announced Bear Grylls would be appointed Chief Scout wikipedia.org/wiki/Bear_Grylls We do Scouting differently in the United States. We think Scoutcraft is "old-fashioned." Scouting's "state-of-the-art" Bear Grylls role model here is the corporate CEO: We recognize the evolving science of leadership. We've had CEOs on our board say they want to send their people to Wood Badge, our adult leader training program, because we use state-of-the-art techniques (Chief Scout Executive Robert Mazzuca). http://www.usatoday.com/money/companies/management/2008-07-20-boy-scouts-advice_N.htm A note to UK readers: In the United States, the term "Wood Badge" means corporate office manager training. In fact the goal of our CEO role model for the year 2010 is to recruit 100,000 boys who hate camping, so that we can teach them office manager "leadership skill growth" instead: Camping is not necessarily a big thing with them, as a matter of fact in some cases it is not big at all. So we need to kind of think about, is it more important that we reach that child with the kind of things we have for children and we have for families in character development and leadership skill growth and all of those things? Or is it more important that we get them in a tent next week? And so I think the answer to that is fairly obvious to us. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032619/#29491940 And we wonder why they leave! This "Leadership Development Method" has been consistently anti-Scoutcraft since its introduction coincided with our sharp decline in membership in 1972: In general, Patrol Leader training should concentrate on leadership skills rather than on Scoutcraft Skills. The Patrol will not rise and fall on the Patrol Leader's ability to cook, follow a map, or do first aid, but it very definitely depends on his leadership skill (Scoutmaster's Handbook [1972], page 155). And we wonder why they leave! The 1916 Scoutcraft methods are mandated by our Congressional Charter, which is an Act of Congress designed to protect children against modernists who want to hijack Scouting and turn it into something else: The purposes of the corporation are to promote, through organization, and cooperation with other agencies, the ability of boys to do things for themselves and others, to train them in scoutcraft, and to teach them patriotism, courage, self-reliance, and kindred virtues, using the methods that were in common use by boy scouts on June 15, 1916. http://www.usscouts.org/aboutbsa/bsacharter.asp When I recruit in the public schools, I present Scoutcraft as an outdoor activity that might be too dangerous for the audience. I find that 70% of sixth grade boys will, in front of their peers, sign a list asking me to call their parents so that they can be a Boy Scout. See: http://inquiry.net/adult/recruiting.htm That 70% additional potential marketshare for the BSA if it switched to Scoutcraft role models does not include the sixth-grade boys who are already in Scouting! For those who are not familiar with "Bear Grylls," the UK's Chief Scout: Grylls hosts a series titled Born Survivor: Bear Grylls for the British Channel 4 and broadcast as Man vs Wild in Australia, Canada and the U.S.A., and as Ultimate Survival on the Discovery Channel in Europe, Asia, and Africa. The series features Grylls dropped into inhospitable places, showing viewers how to survive. The second season premiered in the US on 15 June 2007, the third in November 2007, and the fourth in May 2008. Grylls is currently filming the sixth season in 2010. The show has featured stunts including Grylls climbing cliffs, parachuting from helicopters, balloons, and planes, paragliding, ice climbing, running through a forest fire, wading rapids, eating snakes ... wrestling alligators, field dressing a camel carcass and drinking water from it, eating various "creepy crawlies" [insects], utilizing the corpse of a sheep as a sleeping bag and flotation device, and free climbing waterfalls. Grylls also regales the viewer with tales of adventurers stranded or killed in the wilderness. wikipedia.org/wiki/Bear_Grylls Kudu

You might find Training in Tracking helpful: http://inquiry.net/outdoor/skills/tracking/index.htm Kudu

Al writes: Our ASM isn't even sure we should allow them to sleep shirtless. Adult-led much? What's next, burkas at the waterfront? Kudu

OldGreyEagle writes: Should it not have read: In a boy-run Troop the scouts arrange to haul along 60 individually owned tents because each boy wants to use his own :-/ ? Yeah, I just cut and pasted SR540Beaver's worst-case scenario. Gonzo1 writes: I thought you said that troop owned tents are an example of adult led. Providing Troop tents for those who want them is kind, but forcing Scouts to sleep in them is (of course) adult led. Gonzo1 writes: You would have the troop haul 60 tents if that's what the boys want. Yeah, what's the big deal? Most Scouts want to share a tent. Gonzo1 writes: I like patrol method, in fact, I love it! however, at a recent district event, a Klondike Derby, I saw Ramen noodles for lunch, I think we have to draw lines for boys to operate within. What "lines"? There is nothing wrong with Ramen noodles as a beverage at a Klondike Derby. I'm sure the sodium it is better for them than the chemicals in Kathy's Diet Coke :-/ Otherwise, we would have the inmates running the prison. That is the whole point, isn't it? An adult-run Troop is prison. In Patrol-based Scouting, what you call the "inmates" do run the "prison," especially in matters as trivial as tents and Ramen noodles. Yours in the Old School, Kudu

SR540Beaver writes: What if your boy run troop sees the folly in hauling 60 tents instead of 20, You appear to be the only one who thinks that given the freedom to decide for themselves, every Scout will sleep in his own tent. SR540Beaver writes: sees the value in raising the money to purchase patrol gear to ease the cost on new scouts We had Eureka Timberlines for the socialists. and buddy up for safety's sake? Younger Scouts tend to be afraid of the dark and want to buddy up. Some older Scouts preferred not to. Gonzo1 writes: Loaning out tents hardly teaches the boy to be responsible for his own gear, it's no worse than using troop gear. I don't understand that sentence. Scouts seek Adventure, not lessons on how to be "responsible." I loan out backpacks I find at yard sales, not my own tents. Gonzo1 writes: I hardly think that a troop using troop (patrol) gear is adult led. If adults forbid Scouts to use their own tents, the Troop (Patrol) is adult led. Kudu

In a boy-run Troop you haul along 60 individually owned tents because each boy wants to use his own :-/

Eagle92 writes: I hope you do realize that not all troops that use the same type of tent are adult lead. Of course they are adult-led! If adults tell the Scouts that they can not use their own tents (regardless of the quality of these tents), that is adult-led. Eagle92 writes: I want to say, and Lisa correct me if I'm wrong, but this thread started b/c the troop she is with wouldn't let the scouts use their own equipment and didn't give a reason to the youth as to why they could not use their personal gear...But she did ask what other reasons, and we gave them to her. They are not "reasons," they are excuses. Certainly adults are good at brain-storming excuses. I do set standards for back-packing and canoe trips, but the purpose of regular monthly car-camps is Adventure, and that includes letting the Scouts experiment with gear. If a Scout insists on sleeping in a toy tent and the forecast is for rain, then I make him set up an extra tent "just in case." We have extra sleeping bags if they get wet. For High Adventure I own about a dozen backpacks which I loan out. They can get used boots from the Uniform bank, or sometimes we will spend $5 on a good pair at a thrift shop for a size we do not have. Moving away from the Troop Method is not that difficult if you are the Scoutmaster and you read the third edition of Hillcourt's Handbook for Scoutmasters. Once they are hooked on Outdoor Adventure, it all falls into place as they get older. Kudu

This project will require five months of work just to get started, so if you see me hanging around here again posting anything before 2010, be sure to greet me with: GET BACK TO WORK, KUDU! I did get it started. Thanks for asking, OGE Other projects like Kudu.Net and my recruiting presentation took years as well. Kudu

Socioeconomic theory is bogus. In poor neighborhoods the first thing that relatives buy a new Scout for his birthday or Christmas is a tent. I would prefer that they buy quality hiking boots and a good used backpack, but tents are always on clearance sale in the fall when most boys join Scouts. A poor boy may be ashamed to invite a friend to where his family lives, but a tent is literally his home away from home. Therefore it is unintentionally cruel to tell a Scout that "he can use it when he goes camping with his family or friends, but when it comes to a Scout outing, he uses the tents provided." What better reason to leave Scouts than this kind of adult-led Troop Method? The purpose of the Patrol Method is boy-led Adventure, and a boy's own tent helps provide that. The "responsibility" theory is equally bogus. Nothing teaches "responsibility" quicker than pride of ownership. The Troop Method imposes the pure drudgery of of adult value judgements inflicted to protect communal property, in place of the sheer joy of private ownership. Boys love their toys. Interchangeable parts theory is not necessary on most campouts Rarely will you need to use Troop tents if you allow Scouts to bring their own. On regular campouts, we usually had a pile of extra personal tents stacked up like firewood. On backpacking trips, it does make sense to bring only the best tents. If a part breaks there is usually extra room in a couple of tents on a rainy night, or just sleep under a tarp. The "appearance" theory is a polite way of justifying Adult Peer-Pressure. Nothing screams "Troop Method" louder than a Camporee. That is where adult-led really pays off with all those identical Eureka Timberlines in a nice tight grid, under the glare of bright lanterns like a suburban automobile sales lot. The same thing is true for camping in family campgrounds with hot showers and Internet access: Adults have an excuse to cram the Patrols close together. That sure looks good for families that do not know anything about the Patrol Method, now doesn't it? Adult Peer-Pressure! Baden-Powell coined the term "Parlour Scouting" to refer to this glaring example of adult-run Scouting, because his minimum standard for the Patrol System was 300 feet between Patrols. Likewise the BSA's Patrol Method should be based on real leadership, the kind you need for Patrol Hikes and Patrol Overnights. Believers in the Troop Method tend to reject all of these objective tests of the Patrol Method in favor of identical tents that look good to other adults. Adult Peer-Pressure is why the Troop Method is adult-led. Do you keep indoor Troop Meetings adult-led so that people who do not know anything about Scouting will be impressed by how the Scouts all act the same? Separate those Patrols by 300 feet and nobody will notice that the Scout's tents do not all look the same either :-/ The purpose of the Patrol Method is Adventure. Tents are cheap. They go together. Yours in the Old School, Kudu

So, to summarize: 1) Trained volunteers can not even teach Scouts how to build a fire, a skill that most boys love. 2) We should build on this stunning failure of leadership skills and the "Learning EDGE," and drive boys away from Scouting with schoolwork, which Baden-Powell defined as the exact opposite of Scouting. Our Chief Scout Executive's goal for 2010 is to recruit 100,000 boys who hate camping. Why not learn Spanish and force finance and classroom citizenship on them? Yours in the Old School, Kudu

E-Mtns writes: My son's leaders will remove opportunities for leadership growth if they eliminate the PL positions, two or three in this case. The idea that the purpose of a Patrol is to provide a "POR" is how Leadership Development replaced the Patrol Method with the Troop Method. Before the invention of "opportunities for leadership growth," the purpose of a Patrol was to provide Patrol Adventure. Leadership Development took the necessary specialized training required for Patrol Adventure away from the Patrol Leaders and replaced it with magic formulas like "11 Leadership Skills" and EDGE. Knot Head writes: ...leadership skills if we try the patrol method. This way two or three scouts get to learn responsibility by planning a menu, purchasing the food, working with patrol mates in setting up and cleaning the cooking gear. Um, you forgot "Duty Roster," Knot Head Wood Badge "leadership" experts dab the corners of their eyes with Kleenex when they talk about Duty Rosters, as if they are a significant accomplishment that proves the usefulness of "leadership skills." Oh, and burning the food. Don't forget that either! Leadership experts get all weepy when they pretend that "controlled failures" such as bad cooking teach the importance of magic leadership formulas and Troop Method elections. The point, of course, is that the Troop Method dumbs Scouting down to the Cub Scout level where leadership failure has no real consequences, it is always trivial. Before "leadership skills" were invented, Hillcourt's Patrol Method and B-P's Patrol System required real leadership. A Patrol stuck with its best leader because a Patrol Leader had to hold Patrol Meetings without adults to plan Patrol Adventure: Patrol Hikes without adults. If a Patrol Leader was competent enough to get his Patrol out hiking on a regular basis, then the next step was the Patrol Adventure of Patrol Overnights without adults. Likewise, in B-P's Patrol System the minimum distance between Patrols at a Troop campout was 300 feet (as is still the custom in many Wood Badge courses), so as to approximate the experience of Patrol Adventure in a more controlled environment. By taking Hilcourt's specialized Patrol Leader training away from them, "leadership skills" replaced Patrol Adventure with pretending to use a formula to plan a menu and wash the dishes. News Flash: If you get rid of the Leadership Development Patrol Method, the dishes will still get done! And Scouts can still pretend to use the EDGE theory on square knots! Green Bar Bill was perhaps the most popular man in the history of American Scouting (see the site dedication to him on the right side of your computer screen). Scouts stood in line for hours to meet him. Why was he so popular? Because the purpose of the Patrol Method was to provide adventure on the Patrol level, a unit small enough that it does not require helicopter adults. Boys do not stand in line to shake the hand of a man who teaches magical dish washing formulas. E-Mtns writes: Adult leaders receive training, soon to be required for re-chartering, but that's not the point of this thread. You asked "Where is the handbook for the Troop Method," so training is in fact the point of this thread. According to EDGE theory, your Scoutmaster is doing exactly what the "Patrol Method" session taught him. He is "matching his Adult Leadership Style to the Needs of the Group." Again, the Patrol Method session of Scoutmaster training NEVER mentions a Patrol Leader and it does not describe a working Patrol. E-Mtns writes: His Scoutmaster is giving the boys the responsibility to choose one or the other method too. He has given them a week to decide. He spoke for maybe five minutes about the how each is different. You have not told us how he described the two methods. Nor did you tell us where he heard of the "Troop Method" (which one way or another was from me--so I am to blame!). We can't really suggest a way out of this unless we know what he means by the "Troop Method." E-Mtns writes: He'll have 12 yr. old boys decide which is better, as if they really understand the differences. Most trained adults do not understand the difference either. What is the age distribution of your Troop? A 12-year-old can run a BSA "Real Patrol" (one that hikes and camps without adults, for example one of my 12yo Patrol Leaders featured in Scouter Magazine 12 years ago), but it is very rare. If your Troop is mostly 12-year-olds, then most likely they would be pretend Patrols anyway, as in the Troop Method "New Scout Patrol." The SM has also said he can't wait to do the troop method "so we can have a real democracy where every boy gets a vote". The Scoutmaster is correct. In Hillcourt's Patrol Method the Patrol Leaders run the Troop. That means they select the SPL. Leadership Development took control of the PLC away from the Patrol Leaders and created the Troop popularity contest for SPL on the pretext that the Troop Method is more "democratic." If you look at the blue PLC square on page 37 of the Patrol Leader Handbook, (page 17 in the SMHB), the SPL has almost complete control of the PLC in the Troop Method because he appoints the Troop Method patronage positions (Troop Guide and Troop ASPL). If he and his Troop Guide can influence the weak New Scout Patrol Leader, he picks up an extra vote. Many Troops have two or three ASPLs, so the SPL has five or six votes in the Troop Method. Getting rid of the PLC and switching to referendums completes Leadership Development's historic move to the Troop Method: By definition it is now "a real democracy where every boy gets a vote." Oak Tree writes: All of the quotes above about the importance of the patrol method are good. Um, the FAKE Baden-Powell quote that says the purpose of the Patrol Method is to "run a Troop" is the Troop Method, Oak Tree :-) I've seen troops use the troop method, just as Kudu has. When I was younger I would ask the District Commissioner for a "Troop In Trouble:" a unit with around four Scouts and in need of a Scoutmaster. I would then recruit 15 Scouts from the local school (See http://inquiry.net/adult/recruiting.htm ), figure out who the natural leaders were, and train them using a version of Bill Hillcourt's Patrol Leader Training Course: http://inquiry.net/patrol/green_bar/index.htm The Patrol Method is not rocket science, as long as you space the Patrols as far apart as possible (in proportion to each Patrol Leader's competency). So if you have at least one natural leader around 15 years old, you can switch a dying Troop to the Patrol Method in about two months. When I retired to the rural south I gave that up and just volunteered at the neighborhood Troop (which uses ad hoc Patrols). I joined the District Training Staff and waited for two years before the opportunity presented itself to help our Troop's new Scoutmaster move to a Patrol Method. I would caution E-Mtns against dragging his son to another Troop if this is where all his friends are. A lot of boys drop out within a year of transferring, and most American Troops use the PMINO anyway (Patrol Method In Name Only). Yours in the Old School, Kudu

KnoxDad, Over the years I have had the honor of serving eight self-described atheist Scouts. They all held that position simply because they rejected the existence of supernatural forces. Such Scouts can get around that problem if you teach them how to define their terms. Atheist Scouts tend to be independent thinkers who enjoy debate, so I set aside time for a series of four (4) brief meetings. 1) In the first meeting, I explain that not all religions worship gods, and I describe a couple of those and how they work (Buddhism, for instance). See: http://inquiry.net/ideals/faiths/index.htm 2) In the second meeting, I challenge him to memorize the definition of "Natural Law" as "A law whose content is set by nature and that therefore has validity everywhere." 3) In the third meeting I mention that the man who invented Scouting has been described by some authors as a pantheist. I challenge him to memorize what the great skeptic Carl Sagan described as Einstein's summary of Spinoza's pantheism: "God is the sum-total of all the natural laws in the universe." 4) In the fourth meeting, I make sure he already knows (or now memorizes) the three elements required for combustion: a) Heat (a match), b) Fuel (dead plants), and c) Oxygen (lots of space between the dead plant materials). I then help the Scout to build three fires that try to violate natural law: a) no heat, b) not enough dead plants to keep the fire going, c) no space between the dead plants. Then he builds a fourth successful fire and explains why it obeys natural law. I never try to get an atheist Scout to change his mind, but just to understand (as an atheist debater) the positions outlined above. Oddly, all eight of the atheist Scouts moved on from this phase not to become "pantheists," but to adopt a conventional view of God. The ones brought up by believers all adopted the faith of one, or the other, or both of their parents. Scouts from atheist homes tended to take particular delight in tormenting their atheist parents by picking funny times to put them on the spot--one SPL asked his mother to lead a prayer at a Thanksgiving dinner :-/ The Scouts brought up in atheist homes also seemed to enjoy "Scouts'-Own" religious services more than boys who had been to church before, and approached them as Anthropologists. One SPL always sang louder than everybody else. Baden-Powell based this law of nature aspect of Scouting on his father's book, The Order of Nature, which had earned the elder cleric a mention in Charles Darwin's Origin of the Species, and a charge of heresy from the Anglican Church. See: http://inquiry.net/ideals/beads.htm These are the Scoutcraft Badges which B-P calls the "Religion of the Backwoods," and they were worn on the right side of the Scout Uniform in the rest of the world. See: http://inquiry.net/images/placement.gif Badges worn on the left side of the Scout Uniform were called "Public Service Badges." They represent the skills needed for what Baden-Powell called "Practical Christianity" because Baden-Powell was concerned not with what a Scout believes (as is common in the BSA), but with his actions (he made a special point of referring to the Buddhists in Burma as an example of this "Practical Christianity"). Practical Christianity reflects the plain meaning of Matthew 25:3146, the Parable of the Sheep and the Goats, in which Jesus does not require us to accept him as our "personal savior" as a condition for eternal life, but rather to Help Other People at All Times! Then the righteous will answer Him, Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry and gave you food, or thirsty and gave you something to drink? 38 And when was it that we saw you a stranger and welcomed you, or naked and gave you clothing? 39 And when was it that we saw you sick or in prison and visited you? 40 And the king will answer them, Truly I tell you, just as you did it to one of the least of these who are members of my family, you did it to me. See: http://inquiry.net/ideals/matthew_25_31-46.htm Yours in the Old School, Kudu

E-Mtns writes: My son's troop leadership wants to use the Troop method. I've looked through the SM handbook and the SPL and PL books but can't find the info. I coined the term "Troop Method" in 2004, in the sense of an alternative to the Patrol Method. So your Troop leadership's straight-faced use of the term is a milestone of sorts :-/ Would you please ask them where they heard about it? E-Mtns writes: Where is the handbook for the Troop Method? The textbook example of the Troop Method is the Patrol Method presentation of "Scoutmaster and Assistant Scoutmaster Leader Specific Training." The "Boy Scout Scoutmaster Training Syllabus," is usually available at ScoutStuff.Org for $12.99, See: http://tinyurl.com/y996wpb The entire presentation never mentions a Patrol Leader, never describes a working Patrol, and uses the term "Patrol Method" to describe Adult Association "leadership styles." That is the perfect definition of the Troop Method. "The Patrol Method Time Allowed: 25 minutes Teaching Objectives: 1) Show how to establish an environment that is safe both physically and emotionally in which Scouts can learn, grow, and enjoy Scouting to the fullest [Adult Association]. 2) Explain that listening well is the first step in using appropriate [adult] leadership styles. 3) Show how positive reinforcement is among the most valuable contributions adults can bring to the lives of young people [Adult Association]. 4) Employ various supportive [adult] leadership styles, matching them to the needs of each Scout and to the patrols and troop as a whole. Among the most effective styles are explaining, demonstrating, guiding, and enabling." Kudu http://inquiry.net/patrol/court_honor/index.htm

This week our Training Chair asked me to staff "Scoutmaster and Assistant Scoutmaster Specific Training" again so I asked him to photocopy for me the "Patrol Method" presentation from the 2008 printing. The following observations are strictly limited to the "Patrol Method" presentation on pages 53-61 of the 2008 printing of the course outline for "Scoutmaster and Assistant Scoutmaster Specific Training." When I looked at the "Teaching Objectives" I finally realized what was wrong with the presentation: It uses the term "Patrol Method" to describe "Adult Association." Really! Simple solution: Rename the "Patrol Method presentation" to "Adult Association." Problem solved! This is how Bill Hillcourt once explained the Patrol Method to Scoutmasters: THE PATROL METHOD "The Patrol Method is not ONE method in which Scouting can be carried on. It is the ONLY method!" -Roland Phillips Take any thirty boys, turn them loose in a closed street, a playground, or in a sports field--and you know what happens. Shortly something will be under way. A clatter of many eager voices raised in discussion--and out of the large group will evolve a number of smaller groups, in gangs, ready for game or mischief. Such are boys. The impulse of forming gangs is natural to them. They cannot help themselves. What Constitutes a "Gang"? In its simplest form the gang is merely a group of boys who habitually play together after school or after work. Accidents of various sorts--age, neighborhood, similarity of interests--bring together a somewhat random group. Immediately the boys react on one another. One or more leaders come to the fore. They take their positions naturally, with little form or ceremony. The gang organizes itself, finds or makes its meeting place, begins to do things. Usually it has some particular objective in which it is interested, such as baseball, football, going on trips, or--in bad gangs--stealing. Gang spirit is strengthened by this common pursuit, and gang honor and gang loyalty thrive. The gang develops a collective mind, and sets forth as a unit to carry out schemes and activities which would hardly so much as enter the head of one boy alone. The gang is, in short, a little social organism, with a life of its own, reaching beyond the sum of the lives of its several members. The Gang Becomes the Patrol This gang, this natural unit of boys for boy activities, is the all important unit in Scouting. It changes its name, it is true, from gang to Patrol, but it is a "gang" just the same, a small, permanent group of boys allied by similar interests, working together under the responsible leadership of one of its number--the Patrol Leader. Contrast that Patrol-based description of the Patrol Method with the current "Patrol Method" presentation: The Patrol Method Time Allowed: 25 minutes Teaching Objectives: Show how to establish an environment that is safe both physically and emotionally in which Scouts can learn, grow, and enjoy Scouting to the fullest [Adult Association]. Explain that listening well is the first step in using appropriate [adult] leadership styles. Show how positive reinforcement is among the most valuable contributions adults can bring to the lives of young people. Employ various supportive [adult] leadership styles, matching them to the needs of each Scout and to the patrols and troop as a whole. Among the most effective styles are explaining, demonstrating, guiding, and enabling. It is interesting to note that this "modern" version of explaining the Patrol Method to Scoutmasters borrows the introductory quotation from Bill Hillcourt's version of explaining the Patrol Method to Scoutmasters, but changes it to a fake Baden-Powell quote, presumably to give the new Patrol Method "Adult Leadership Styles" the patina of historical legitimacy. Note also that the new fake quote inserts "Boy Scout troop" into the "Patrol Method" twice! "The patrol method is not a way to operate a Boy Scout troop, it is the only way. Unless the patrol method is in operation you don't really have a Boy Scout troop" --Robert Baden-Powell, the founder of Scouting. One easy way to spot a fake Baden-Powell quote is that Baden-Powell used the term "Patrol System" and never "Patrol Method." In fact some BSA editors have now started to change "Patrol Method" to "Patrol System" in the fake Baden-Powell quotes! Three more things bother me about the "Patrol Method" presentation in "Scoutmaster and Assistant Scoutmaster Specific Training." 1) It does not include ANY mention of a Patrol Leader. How can you explain the Patrol Method without mentioning the Patrol Leader? Well, through the magic of the new Patrol Method "Adult Leadership Styles," of course! This is still true in the 2008 printing. There are NO Patrol Leaders in the "Patrol Method" presentation, pages 53-61. The closest the text comes to mentioning a Patrol Leader in the Patrol Method presentation is on page 56, where the participants are asked to imagine an entire Scout Troop lost in the woods (the Troop Method always works best for bypassing Patrol Leaders). It gives various Patrol Method "Adult Leadership Styles" that could be used: "With some groups, a Scoutmaster may find it best to delegate to the senior patrol leader or other boy leaders..." 2) Gives an example of the Patrol Method as adults telling random Scouts to put out the campfire. OK, this example is still there, but it is not as evil now! In the previous printing, bypassing the Patrol Leader was given as an example of the new Patrol Method Adult Leadership Style of "Directing:" "A Scoutmaster can fill that need through directing-- that is, giving clear guidelines. Telling Scouts, 'Have the members of your patrol use buckets of water to put out the campfire, and then we can remove any traces that it was here.' is one example of directing." In other words, "Of course we use the Patrol Method! We bypass the Patrol Leaders and use the 'Directing Adult Leadership Style' because that best matches the 'Needs of our group'." The same example of bypassing the Patrol Leader is still there in the 2008 printing at the very bottom of page 58, but the previous Patrol Method "Adult Leadership Styles" (Directing, Coaching, Supporting, Delegating) have been replaced by the new "EDGE" Patrol Method "Adult Leadership Styles" (Explaining, Demonstrating, Guiding, Enabling). So in the new printing the Patrol Leader is bypassed so that the adult can "explain" something to the Patrol: "A Scoutmaster can fill that need by explaining--that is giving clear guidelines. He can tell Scouts, 'Have the members of your patrol use buckets of water to put out the campfire, then we can remove any trace that it was here'." In other words, "Of course we use the Patrol Method! We bypass our Patrol Leaders when we need to explain something to their Patrols!" These nifty new Patrol Method Adult Leadership Styles are also used to bypass Patrol Leaders in Chief Scout Executive Robert Mazzuca's current "Reinventing Scouting" media blitz: He dismisses Scoutcraft as "rubbing two sticks together" and says, "Our goal is not to teach someone to rub two sticks together and make a fire. But when you rub two sticks together and make a fire side by side with an adult of good character, you're going to learn about who you are and go on to lead men." and "You can teach a kid about character and leadership using aerospace and computers. The secret is to get them side by side with adults of character." http://www.usatoday.com/money/companies/management/2008-07-20-boy-scouts-advice_N.htm 3) Equates the word "Patrol" with "Troop" as an object upon which "Adult Leadership Skills" act. OK, this has changed in the 2008 Printing. The Patrol Method presentation is still about Adult Association in the Troop Method: The term "troop" is used about 32 times, but the term "patrol" only appears around 9 times. In addition to the three examples cited above, the term "patrol" is used in the following six sentences: Page 55: "In a large group, this activity [adults talking] may be done by patrols" [of adults]. Page 58: "Matching [Adult] Leadership Styles to the Needs of Scouts, Patrols, and Troops" (note the serial comma formulation. Patrols are just one object upon which Adult Leadership Styles act. This is all about Adult Association, not the Patrol Method). Page 58: "a Scoutmaster can get a sense of the style of leadership needed in a given situation by a boy, by a patrol, and by a troop" (Adult Association). Here are three new mentions of a "Patrol" that are introduced with EDGE theory in the 2008 printing: Page 59: "Demonstrating as a[dult] leadership behavior comes when Scouts are still new to a task and are not together as a patrol or team" (bypassing the Patrol Leader). Page 59: "You [as an adult] are not providing feedback on their skill or behavior; you are still showing how to make sure their patrol understands and setting the example" (bypassing the Patrol Leader). Page 59: "As Scouts, patrols, and a Troop are becoming more comfortable with their new roles and activities, a Scoutmaster can begin to step to the sidelines and allow boys to assume more responsibilities" (generic "boys" rather than Patrol Leaders). In conclusion, the above notes are intended for only for those who actually sit down and read the "Patrol Method" presentation on pages 53-61 of the 2008 printing of "Scoutmaster and Assistant Scoutmaster Specific Training." If you believe the Patrol Method and basic adult training are important, why does that not include you? I understand that if nobody actually reads the "Patrol Method presentation" then it is easy to argue that the "context" justifies changing the term "Adult Association" to "Patrol Method." However, for most volunteers this is the only direct, specific, official explanation of the "Patrol Method" they will ever receive. Most volunteers do NOT go to Roundtable, Wood Badge, or read Internet discussion groups. As for references to the Scoutmaster Handbook, I believe that EagleDad once conducted an informal poll and found that only 10% of all Wood Badge participants ever sat down and read the Scoutmaster Handbook. I suspect that the real number is closer to 1%, but I am amazed that Barry's skills convinced 90% of them to tell the truth! No matter how you spin it, when business managers define the "Patrol Method" as "Adult Leadership Styles," it is the exact opposite of Bill Hillcourt's description of that "little social organism, with a life of its own, reaching beyond the sum of the lives of its several members." This will be my last post in 2009, see y'all somewhere down the trail! Kudu

HICO_Eagle writes: I'd like to stay out of the Tahawk/Kudu fight here Me too On the topic of Internet addiction, gwd-scouter once reported that she woke up in the middle of the night to check her Email, only to be struck with wonder at the "Most active recent contributors" list. How do they find the time? Her post led me to realize that I am not a very prolific writer either. It is a lot of fun to unravel Tahawk's logic and then try to counter it, but this will be my last post in this thread. "White Stag Wood Badge killed Patrol Leader Training in 1972: Sorry no more position-specific training for Patrol Leaders." Tahawk writes: The first learning objective for "Junior Leaders" is "State the duties of a patrol leader..." The emphasis on training out-of-doors is not longer the model, and it was not the model where I Scouted by 1957. But it was the NATIONAL model when you Scouted in 1957 and when you became a young adult leader, even though your Troop and district did not follow Hillcourt's Patrol Leader Training course. We hiked and camped without adults when I was a Scout. Maybe it was the exception and not the rule elsewhere, but it was the national "model" and models set the boundaries on imagination and adventure. But it is simply factually incorrect to say the training of PL's, by that title, ceased to exist in 1972. By the title "Patrol Leader Training"? That would surprise me! Hasn't our official, generic, one-size-fits-all manager training been called "Junior Leader Training" or "Troop Leader Training" since 1972? This is my last time around, so I will repeat: Does it pass the BSA Lifeguard test? In Baden-Powell's and Bill Hillcourt's versions of the Patrol Method, the function of a Patrol was to hike and camp without adult supervision. The Patrol Leader (like a Lifeguard) had significant responsibility for the safety of his Patrol members, which is why his training was hands-on, outdoors, and lasted six months. If we had taken this specialized training away from BSA Lifeguards in 1972 like we did to BSA Patrol Leaders, forced them to sit through generic "Position of Responsibility" training where we merely LIST "responsibilities" (only hinting at the water --like we now only hint at the woods-- with a single non-specific mention of "activities"), and limited his training to "team-building exercises" and EDGE theory, then I'm sure that someone would now be saying that Boy Scouts never REALLY swam in water over their heads, and to say they did is to "pine for something that never was." Your claim also assumes that official BSA literature determines what training is, in fact, given. I do agree with that. It neatly sums up the topic of training, doesn't it? Tahawk writes: Bill Hillcourt, not "White Stag," suggested six-month -- OR SHORTER -- terms for PL's in the 4th and 5th Editions of the Scoutmaster's Handbook; "Generally the term of office is about six months, but may be more of less depending on your situation." ("Setting Up the Patrol Method, Term of Office") That is from the 5th edition. Office workers had already begun to take editorial control away from Hillcourt by then: For instance, his iconic capitalization of Scouting elements such as "Patrol," "Troop," "Patrol Leader," etc, was neutered in the 5th edition to "patrol," "troop," "patrol leader," etc. The forth edition clearly states under Term of Office: "As a general rule, a Patrol Leader stays in office as long as he gets results, or until he moves into another leadership position in the Troop." Elections are only a way to "simplify matters where a boy proves a poor Patrol Leader..." To me that is the opposite of the "modern:" "To give more youths the opportunity to lead, most troops elect patrol leaders twice a year." Maybe most people see no significant difference between "a Patrol Leader stays in office as long as he gets results," and "To give more youths the opportunity to lead, most troops elect patrol leaders twice a year," but it is my conviction that the rapid turnover of Patrol Leaders in the POR Modern Manager Mill is the reason that everyone instinctively demonizes Baden-Powell's guideline of 300 feet between Patrols (even though it is still the standard in most Wood Badge courses and is most likely the reason that many participants leave Wood Badge with the feeling that they have experienced the Patrol Method for the first time in their lives). Everyone knows that their six-month Patrol Leaders would be lost 300 feet from the nearest adult. Tahawk writes: The biggest problem for candidates to meet the "fires" requirement for Wilderness Survival MB is that the candidates simply are not skilled is starting fires - any fire. I agree on this point but when you put Scoutcraft into the Advancement box (no matter how interesting you make it), it will ALWAYS be something that you just check off a list. Nobody is going to learn it as if his life depends on it because it doesn't. (Leaving the issue of fire bans aside) I would turn this around 180 degrees and make some form of Wilderness Survival Merit Badge mandatory (required) so that when a Scout learns how to make a campfire, he knows that he will need that skill for an upcoming scary night where he will be "all alone" in the deep dark woods. This final test on an impending solitary real-world adventure was the function of the required BSA "First Class Journey:" "Make a round trip alone (or with another Scout) to a point at least seven miles away (fourteen miles in all), going on foot, or rowing a boat, and write a satisfactory account of the trip and things observed." See: http://inquiry.net/advancement/tf-1st_require_1911.htm The spun thread below will be my last post for a while, but I will still be available by PM. In closing, my "old school" convictions are based on two things that have always amazed me: It is simple to convert to Scouting an auditorium of sixth-graders who initially try to hoot you off the stage, if you spend twenty minutes describing BSA Scouting as the same adventure that appealed to their great-grandfathers when they were 11 years old. No matter what millionaire "youth" marketing experts tell you, 2/3 (66%) of an auditorium of "modern" boys will sign in front of their peers a list asking you to call their parents so they can join Boy Scouts, if you try the following: http://inquiry.net/adult/recruiting.htm The second amazing experience that anyone can enjoy, is to deliver on the "Promise of Adventure" above by simply separating your best Patrols 300' as Baden-Powell advised. I can't say that in 13 years of Internet discussions I have EVER convinced ANYONE to actually try either of these simple but amazing things, but I have just begun a project that will convert my "retail" (one auditorium at at time) presentations into a wider, more direct approach. This project will require five months of work just to get started, so if you see me hanging around here again posting anything before 2010, be sure to greet me with: GET BACK TO WORK, KUDU! See y'all further down the trail, Kudu

How did we lose our message, It happened in 1965 when the BSA millionaires unleashed the Hungarian vampire Bla Bnthy to suck out of Scouting the life-blood of outdoor adventure (Green Bar Bill's Wood Badge and Patrol Leader Training), and replace it with PORs, Leadership Development, and the mission to turn every boy into a leader. http://www.whitestag.org/history/history.html and how do we get it out there again? Look for someone who can make indoor business manager skills sound as exciting to boys as they are to "21st Century" Holders of the Wood Badge: A great hero like Kenneth Blanchard, but who does not charge royalties for his revealed wisdom. Kudu