Kudu

OldGreyEagle writes: Can you substantiate your claim "95% of the holders of the Wood Badge do not read about Scouting" In the preceding sentences I defined Wood Badge "functional illiteracy" as not having read the Scoutmaster Handbook. The point is that holders of the Wood Badge who do not at a bare minimum even read the skimpy 179 page Scoutmaster Handbook (let alone Bill Hillcourt's 1,166 page Handbook for Scoutmasters, the most comprehensive Scouter "how-to" book ever written -> a good alternative to Wood Badge) will react to criticisms of Wood Badge with their EMOTIONS: "When I sing 'Back to Gilwell' I KNOW IN MY HEART that Wood Badge has always been about corporate team-building theory." OldGreyEagle writes: or is that like the supposition that you can't Criticize Wood Badge on this site? That was a warning to 2eagles that if she continues to question the new business manager Wood Badge, then she will be subject to personal attacks like: "I do know that continually harassing those of us who did not have the opportunity to take the old course is not Helpful, Friendly, Courteous or Kind." You do not seem to have picked up on my comparison of it to a prohibition against unauthorized use of a time machine. I have always said that 99% of all of the BSA's shortcomings would eventually be corrected if we simply required that all Boy Scout Patrols be separated by Baden-Powell's minimum of 100 yards, but that the remaining 1% are insolvable, due to poor reading comprehension Eagledad writes: "300 feet coming from someone who sounds angry at the world will go nowhere" Personal attacks are always an indication of some form of projection. I thought you were over your anger issues, Barry. Kudu

If you can't argue the facts, argue the law; if you can't argue the law, argue character.

Eagledad writes: "Ive done a poll and I can say with confidence that probably only 5% of Wood Badge trained SMs have read the whole SM Handbook." Count your blessings, Barry. The fact that 95% of Wood Badge trained Scoutmasters are functionally illiterate (can read but choose not to) is what makes Wood Badge such a powerful force in the destruction of Bill Hillcourt's Traditional BSA Patrol Method. 95% of the holders of the Wood Badge do not read about Scouting, so they defend Wood Badge from their EMOTIONS: Loyalty to the people they met at Wood Badge, for instance. Eagledad writes: "I dont know if that says more about the book or the program..." If it is any consolation, the 5% literacy rate appears to have been true in 1972 as well. This is why nobody noticed that ALL OF THE FAKE Baden-Powell quotes in post-1972 official BSA publications were actually created (or collected) by Hillcourt and featured prominently in his BSA Scoutmaster handbooks. If ANY BSA millionaire or Wood Badge volunteer working at the Regional and National level had thumbed through the literature before writing the new materials for the "Leadership Development Method" invented in 1972, he or she would NOT have attributed to Baden-Powell all the stuff that "kind of sounded familiar." Eagledad writes: "Kudu is way off base, in many ways I guess, but if he were really serious about adults get misaligned with running a boy run troop, its more at the specific leaders training levels like SM Specific." It is not just Wood Badge that has been dumbed-down to the Cub Scout level, Barry. The "Patrol Method" session of SM Specific training: 1) NEVER mentions the Patrol Method (except for the FAKE Baden-Powell quote at the beginning). 2) NEVER mentions a "Patrol" without asserting that a Patrol is NO DIFFERENT from a "troop" or any other "group." 3) NEVER mentions a Patrol Leader. The Patrol Method session is NOT about the Patrol Method. It even includes one memorable example of the Patrol Method in which an adult tells random Scouts when to put out the campfire. What team-building expert do you suppose wrote the Patrol Method session of Scoutmaster specific training, Barry? A Wood Badge course director working at the Regional or National level maybe? Even the most "adult-directed leadership style" Webelos 3 Troop in the world can work through a Patrol Leader, but the Patrol Method session NEVER MENTIONS A PATROL LEADER, does it? Be thankful that the Wood Badge functional illiteracy rate is 95%, or someone would notice. Eagledad writes: "I do have one question for Kudu. His behavior in the forum to me is so counter to scout like behavior that I wonder if this isn't on purpose." All personal attacks include some form of projection. Maybe you should worry less about branding me. Eagledad writes: "What I want to know Kudu is: are you acheiving your goal in this forum?" Yes, thank you. The way that 2eagles and Narraticong replied to me is far more thought-provoking than the moralizing of the three Wood Badge promoters who use Scout Law to defend bad training. Kudu

Brent writes: "The current Wood Badge course includes the Patrol Hike and the Patrol Overnighter, as well as the skill instruction that goes along with those events." The obvious question is "Why don't holders of the Wood Badge bring Patrol Hikes and Patrol Overnighters home to their Troops?" Would you tell us more about the skill instruction? Brent writes: "While I admire your passion for the 300' camping rule, please point out to me where it was ever included in a Scoutmaster Handbook, even those written by Bill Hillcourt." Baden-Powell first wrote about it in October 1909, in an article titled "Object of Camping": So it results that Scouts' camps should be small -- not more than one Troop camped together; and even then each Patrol should have its own separate tent at some distance (at least 100 yards) from the others. This latter is with a view to developing the responsibility of the Patrol Leader for his distinct unit. As you know, Bill Hillcourt's Scoutmaster and Patrol Leader handbooks concentrate on training Patrol Leaders to lead Patrol Hikes and Patrol Overnighters without adult supervision. That is what the Traditional Patrol Method means! It is the DEFINITION of what the BSA called a "Real Patrol." In fact the Handbook for Patrol Leaders even includes a chapter on how to conduct a Patrol summer camp without adults, "The Standing Camp being a matter of one to several weeks..." I think Baden-Powell's 300 foot guideline (still used in many Wood Badge courses) provides a reasonable Troop campout compromise for adults who seldom (if ever) allow Patrols to organize their own camping trips without adult supervision, don't you? Brent writes: "And Patrol and Team are synonymous. Scouting is a game. What do we call a group playing a game? Usually, we call them a team." The problem is that after 1972, "team-building" theory (blindfold exercises, etc.) replaced specialized Patrol Leader Training. See "Intensive Training in the Green Bar Patrol": http://inquiry.net/patrol/green_bar/index.htm "Teamwork" is one of the three aims of Little League. Would you use the abstract FORMING, STORMING, NORMING, PERFORMING team development theory that replaced Patrol Leader Training to train a Little League pitcher? Would you use the abstract SMART Goals (Specific, Measurable, Attainable, Relevant, Timely) to help a Little League batter to "set goals that keep him tight and focused," as we do with Patrol Leaders? Brent, I know that you are working on a Traditional Patrol Method in your unit, and I look forward to hearing about your progress. Kudu

2eagles writes: "Kudu I personally prefer the old course (wasn't able to finish my ticket due to move) -- More so now because the team building is received in the business end by most adults anyway. I was very disappointed in the new course -- in fact after the new course my husband went and taught the same darn thing for his company. Now we need the adults to practice camping and outdoor skills even more. I haven't met an old course woodbadger that doesn't get it -- but I have met several from the new course (including those on staff) who haven't got a clue" Oops! Admitting that Wood Badge is just a corporate business manager course is against the rules here, 2eagles. Now you are guilty of "continual harassment," the gross violation of Scout Law, and unauthorized use of a time machine! The solution is to "Just Say 'NO'!" to Wood Badge until we offer a Boy Scout version for Scoutmasters and Assistant Scoutmasters that teaches adults to train Patrol Leaders THEIR PRIMARY JOB: to plan and lead Patrol Hikes and Patrol Overnights (if only in the context of monthly Troop campouts). When I took Wood Badge it still included the Patrol Hike and Patrol Overnight, but because these Traditional Patrol functions did not fit into the "modern" abstract leadership formula of the day, these activities (as well as the spacing of the Wood Badge Patrols Baden-Powell's distance of 300 feet apart) were never explained. This is why holders of the Wood Badge did not bring the Traditional Patrol Method home during the White Stag era. So it would be helpful to bring back the PHYSICAL STRUCTURE of "the old course" while it is still in living memory, but all of the Leadership Development "team-building" theory should be transferred somewhere else. Wood Badge should teach PATROL BUILDING not "team building." In addition I would clearly label the "Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills" course as an Advancement Method checklist course, and then reintroduce to Wood Badge the bottom line of Boy Scouting, OUTDOOR SKILLS ARE LEADERSHIP SKILLS. The best theory for re-inventing Wood Badge is William Hillcourt's three Patrol Leader skills: 1. Be a Leader 2. Be a Friend 3. Be Ahead That and the related "Patrol Leader's Creed" is all the "theory" any Patrol Leader needs. http://www.inquiry.net/patrol/leaders_creed.htm Kudu

2eagles writes: "WHOA kudu on the mommies." That was the term our Scouts used when they organized a 100% boycott of ALL future campouts that would include "anybody's mommy." However, they greatly admired the outdoor women who taught them technical climbing, white water canoeing, winter backpacking, etc. 2eagles writes: "My experience (specifically) during the last 6 years has been the wimpy macho men. "Trained" Men I would not let take a group into any unstructured setting." Yeah, I agree: Welcome to the new business manager Wood Badge! I suspect that male obesity is THE primary force supporting the "re-invention of Boy Scouts." Kudu

OldGreyEagle writes: "Well, like I said [personal attack deleted] what are you talking about?" In a nutshell, the only "re-invention" Boy Scouts needs is to get back to its pre-1972 Traditional roots: 1) When Scouting is presented the way Baden-Powell did 100 years ago, 66% of sixth-grade boys sign up (in front of their peers) to be Boy Scouts. 2) That 66% does NOT include the boys who do not sign up because they ALREADY are Boy Scouts! Now YOU tell ME what market-share that adds up to. 3) When Boy Scouting is presented the way Baden-Powell did 100 years ago Latin boys are just as likely to sign up as whites, and they are MORE likely than whites to recruit their brothers and cousins. Kudu

OldGreyEagle writes: "B-P talks about Scouting as being a School of Charactor... In the three minute or so speech he mentions camping once." I don't know the Latin term for this fallacy, but I call it "Wood Badge Logic" because it is what Wood Badge does so very well. In essence you have reverse-engineered Baden-Powell's description of the BENEFITS of his game of camping and public service to justify any "delivery system" that merely mentions one of these benefits, even if it is what Baden-Powell so clearly defined as the very opposite of Scouting: Parlour Scouting. The same Wood Badge Logic is used to reverse-engineer the BENEFITS we call the "Aims of Scouting" to mean ANYTHING that mentions Character, like luring boys indoors to sit in front of computer screens "side by side with adults of character." The same Wood Badge Logic is also used to justify luring boys indoors to please their parents by sitting in a classroom to learn Citizenship in indoor Citizenship Merit Badge classes. But remember, you cannot give them character through ordinary classroom methods. You have to use other means. 66% of the boys are eager to join in a jolly game of fellowship, with its healthy camp life and handy pioneer training. OldGreyEagle writes: "If he was around today, I am sure he would want to still produce men of Charactor who were healthy (Physcially fit) and good citizens, but I don't know as he would use the present delivery system." Um, the BSA settled on indoor things like school pull-ups, without which you can't get past Tenderfoot. "Delivery system"? You use the same terminology to kill Scouting as millionaire tobacco executives use to kill with cigarettes. Baden-Powell could never have anticipated that adults would work so very hard to remove camping from his game of camping and public service. Unfortunately, Green Bar Bill DID live long enough to see this horror, which millionaire executives began less than two months after his retirement! I DO know what Baden-Powell would do if he was alive today! He would use the word "camping" in every sentence to avoid having the BENEFITS of the game of camping quoted out of the context of the GAME OF CAMPING OldGreyEagle writes: "So before we talk to 60 boys and end up with 25% and consider that a fine days recruiting, what would B-P think of us throwing away the other 45 because they or their family do not fit the mold?" This is another fallacy that defines Wood Badge Logic. 45 of the 60 boys WANT to join Scouting when I define it as the outdoor adventure "delivery system" that Wood Badge teaches YOU is expendable. Those 45 boys do NOT include the boys in the audience who are ALREADY in Scouting (presumably because Cub Scouts was not boring enough to drive them away). So let us examine your logic, OldGreyEagle! If you do not consider 25% to be "a fine day's recruiting," exactly what percentage does YOUR vision aim for? If dumbing Scouting down to the Cub Scout level was working ONLY AS WELL as my Baden-Powell approach (15 boys), then that would mean that ALL of the remaining 15 boys who did not sign up are ALREADY IN SCOUTING! Right? So that would mean that 100% of all sixth-grade boys EITHER want Baden-Powell's brand of rugged outdoor Scouting (66.6%), OR (best case scenario) are perfectly happy with scissors and paste or sitting in Citizenship Merit Badge classrooms side by side with adults of character (33.3%). According to Wood Badge Logic, if we could only redouble our efforts to figure out what their MOMMIES want Boy Scouts to be, then more of them would say "yes" (btw, 100% of the parents on my sign up sheets who say "no" are mothers). If dumbing down Boy Scouts was the answer to making Boy Scouting more attractive to mommies, then they would have forced their sons to stay in Cub Scouts, which is second only to ballet classes in delivering what 66% of boys dread more than death My theory is that this talk of "reinventing Boy Scouts" is NOT aimed at improving the recruiting rate OR retention rate. It is all about making the Cub Scout parents who do cross over with their sons more comfortable by making Boy Scouts more like Cub Scouts. Pretending that the "Mission" of Scouting is to teach boys how to make "ethical choices" is to pull a bait and switch with the REAL MISSION of the BSA as MANDATED in the BSA's Congressional Charter: "to promote ... the ability of boys to do things for themselves and others, to train them in scoutcraft ... using the methods that were in common use by boy scouts on June 15, 1916." Allowing the BSA to abuse this, the legal mandate that defines their monopoly, is like allowing the Water Department to substitute "making ethical choices" for the 100 year-old "delivery system" of pipes because when the utility's founder listed the benefits of plumbing, he only mentioned "water" once. Kudu

I oppose stupid ideas like "re-inventing Boy Scouts." If anyone feels that I have attacked him or her personally, then perhaps he or she is too closely associated with a very stupid idea I am saying that the BSA Mission Statement is exactly what you say it is, OGE: "in times of change you can stay true to your mission ... while changing the delivery of the program." In other words, it is a tool than enables greed for a larger market share than what millionaire BSA executives believe they can get by following the rules that govern their monopoly on "Scouting" as set forth in the Congressional Charter. The TRUE mission statement is this Congressional Charter which specifies "the delivery of the program" (i.e. "to train them in scoutcraft ... using the methods that were in common use by boy scouts on June 15, 1916"). Therefore the idea that Scouting is anything that teaches "ethical choices" (like sitting in front of a computer screen side by side with adults of character) is fundamentally dishonest because this bait and switch scam is by its very nature based on unethical choices. The call of the wild excites 2/3 of all sixth-grade boys if you just stand up and witness "The Promise of Scouting." Boys look to men for adventure. Men who ask what "modern boys really want" are brown-nosed followers of fashion unworthy of any boy's respect. "You can teach a kid about character and leadership using aerospace and computers. The secret is to get them side by side with adults of character...We've had CEOs on our board say they want to send their people to Wood Badge, our adult leader training program, because we use state-of-the-art techniques" (Robert Mazzuca, BSA Chief Scout Executive and author of re-inventing Boy Scouts).

"Sone folks here sincerely believe that every boy worth anything still wants exactly what Baden Powell provided 100 years ago. Some do." 2/3 do. Where are you located? Arrange for me to address an assembly of sixth-grade boys in your neighborhood school with you standing next to me. You will see with your own eyes that when I challenge them with EXACTLY what Baden-Powell provided 100 years ago -- bears, rattlesnakes, matches, knives, guns, arrows, Patrol camping, and learning first aid skills to be a hero -- 2/3 of them will sign up (45 out of 60). See: http://inquiry.net/adult/recruiting.htm Yes, that afternoon when we call all 45 parents, about 30 of them will not allow their sons to join. But 15 will. And those 15 parents will NOT be the hover-type that come with attracting Cub Scout parents with indoor Eagle on their son's resumes. This is where OGE's "Mission Statement" comes in: Greed and dishonesty to increase market-share. Pretending that the "Mission" of Scouting is to teach boys how to make "ethical choices" allows millionaire executives to pull a bait and switch with the REAL MISSION of the BSA as MANDATED in their Congressional Charter: "to promote ... the ability of boys to do things for themselves and others, to train them in scoutcraft ... using the methods that were in common use by boy scouts on June 15, 1916." The idea of "re-inventing" Boy Scouts is that if you get your brown nose far enough up the passive side of popular culture, you will discover "what modern boys really want." News flash to the obese: red-blooded American boys want what American boys have ALWAYS wanted: bears, rattlesnakes, matches, knives, guns, arrows, Patrol camping with their buddies, and learning first aid skills to be a hero. The problem is that most recruiters do not stand up for that. "Ethical Choices" is an oxymoron: It is not "Ethical" to dumb-down the Congressional Charter's mandate, and chasing after the whims of popular culture NEVER makes Scouting one of most boy's "Choices." Kudu (This message has been edited by kudu)

In 1996 I created a page of close-up photographs on our Troop Website that compared alternatives to official Scout pants. Our Troop switched from olive-drab BDUs to these olive-drab nylon zip-off cargo pants in 1997. This became the very first page of The Kudu Net! See: http://kudu.net/uniforms/bdu.htm As you can imagine the local Wood Badge Uniform Police swarmed down on me like angry hornets, but when I started wearing to National training courses my own version of what the BSA uniform should look like (our "Switchbacks" plus a REI breathable nylon shirt with all my BSA patches sewn on), it provoked interesting conversations with some of the BSA's highest "Gold Tabs." One of them told me that he and other highly-placed BSA executives had (in 1997) already tried to introduce them as an official outdoor BSA uniform, but they had been blocked (presumably by the national uniform committee. This is why the "Centennial Uniform" is mix and match with the older butt-ugly dress-designer version--it is officially NOT a "new" uniform, which would have required the uniform committee's approval). Kudu

The very first Boy Scout campfire song (first sung by Scouts at Baden-Powell's Brownsea Island experiment on August 1, 1907) is "The Scout's Chorus" (Eengonyama). This is a chant that the African Zulus used to sing to their Chief. It may be shouted on the march, used as applause at games and meetings and camp fires, or as a war dance that encircles the campfire, as described in the article. The best way to teach the song is to work with a few Scouts that already like to sing. Then you or the Scout with the strongest voice teaches the Troop the chorus part first: "Invooboo. Ya-Boh! Ya-Boh! Invooboo!" Then he sings the solo "Eengonyamagonyama" and uses his arms to bring everyone in for the chorus. He sings the solo for a few rounds, then another Scout who likes to sing takes over the solo, and so forth. To send a chill down everyone's spine, have a younger Scout with a piercing high soprano voice take the solo after a couple of older Scouts with deeper voices. I find the sopranos by asking the younger Scouts "Who likes to scream real loud?" The Scout's Chorus is very impressive when your Troop chants it marching to flag ceremonies at summer camp or Camporees, especially if they keep the beat with Scout Staves. In the olden days I taught it to my Beaver Patrol as soon as I got to Wood Badge so that we in turn could teach it to the whole Troop. The Scout's Chorus has opened more than a few doors for me over the years. See The Kudu Net: http://kudu.net/outdoor/campfire/songs/war_songs.htm Kudu

Buffalo Skipper writes "I sure hope I can instill in our scouts the leadership and responsibility to handle patrol outings like the ones you described." Remember that when Patrol Camping was THE goal of Patrol Leader Training, leadership and responsibility were NOT viewed as qualities that could be taught directly. They were the indirect RESULT of Patrol outings, which was the whole point of Scouting being "a game, not a science." The best Patrol Leader was the Scout who best displayed those qualities before being elected. If you build up to this slowly by encouraging your best Patrol to backpack 300 feet from the other Patrols every month as Baden-Powell recommended, these qualities of leadership and responsibility will emerge as a natural result of the outdoor program. If they picked the wrong Patrol Leader (as often happens with forced Patrol elections), it will become self-evident on these monthly "backpacking" trips. kraut-60 writes: "The parents are/will be the toughest to convince of this practice." Only if Patrol Outings are perceived as something radically new and different. If so, I would agree with them. The thing to change is monthly campouts. If the parents are alarmed at your most mature Patrol backpacking 300 feet every month, then start with 50 feet. kraut-60 writes: "Possibly the best way to achieve this is to be a trained and active SM who leads by example and develops youth leaders to be responsible." William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt, the father of the BSA Patrol Method, designed a Patrol Leader Training Course in which the Scoutmaster leads by example and develops Patrol Leaders (not "youth leaders") to be responsible. The course is called "Intensive Training in the Green Bar Patrol," see: http://inquiry.net/patrol/green_bar/index.htm Note that the Scoutmaster "leads by example" not by displaying responsibility from a distance, but by ACTUALLY LEADING this Green Bar Patrol. He is the Patrol Leader. The SPL is his Assistant Patrol Leader, and all of the Patrol Leaders are members of his Patrol. This is "leading by example" OLD SCHOOL. Course Outline: Intensive Training in the Green Bar Patrol How to Lead a Patrol Meeting by actually holding Patrol Meetings --> How to use a Patrol Meeting to plan a Patrol Hike by actually planning a real hike in a real Patrol Meeting --> How to conduct a Patrol Hike by actually leading the Green Bar Patrol on a hike --> How to use a Patrol Meeting to plan a Patrol Campout by actually planning a real Patrol Campout in a real Patrol Meeting --> How to conduct a Patrol Campout by actually taking the Green Bar Patrol on a Patrol Campout. Note that in this training scheme, Patrol Hikes prepare the Patrol for Patrol Campouts. A Patrol Overnight is really just an extended Patrol Hike. You can do the same thing on monthly campouts at Scout camps, and you can do the same thing in National Forests, etc: Use Patrol Hikes to prepare for Patrol Overnights. Every Patrol Hike should include at LEAST one meal. Start with "Sandwich Hikes" (a hike on which you don't want to be tied down by fire making and cooking). Then advance to "Chop Hikes," (a hike where fire building and/or cooking on a backpacking stove have a prominent place in the program). The Green Bar Patrol Hike that YOU lead should be a Chop Hike, see: http://inquiry.net/patrol/green_bar/3rd.htm kraut-60 writes: "I have told my patrols that having all patrol members earn First Class rank will help me decide if they are capable of this increased level of trust...the patrol on its own." Note that in Old School Scouting, First Class skills plus abstract indoor leadership training does not train a Patrol Leader how to manage risky behavior, in the same way that First Class swimming requirements plus abstract classroom leadership training does not train a BSA Lifeguard how to manage risky behavior. Both require SPECIFIC training and extensive practice under direct supervision. As Ronald Reagan said "Trust but verify!" The best way to verify is to be the Patrol Leader of your Patrol Leaders: PHYSICALLY demonstrate what a Patrol Leader does by leading two Patrol outings (a hike and an overnight) IN THE FLESH. Then see what they can do more than 50 feet away during monthly campouts. Even if you NEVER get to the point where your most mature Patrol backpacks more than a football field away from the nearest adult, this in itself (plus Patrol Hikes that include at least one meal) will add an element of adventure to your Troop's outdoor program beyond anything that the Scouts in most units can now imagine. Kudu (This message has been edited by Kudu)

Buffalo Skipper writes: "How far can this be taken as a patrol activity?" How FAR? The furthest away one of our Patrols camped on a regular basis was 330 miles. The Patrol Leader was the son of the District Commissioner, and they often drove to the Adirondacks to backpack in the High Peaks, after I first got them addicted on a simple Troop backpacking trip there. When I was in Scouts, my Patrol did the same thing every school vacation, but the High Peaks were only 190 miles away. In both situations (and in less ambitious Patrol outings like those of our Troop's "Redskins" Patrol featured in Scouter.Com's print journal ten years ago) the Patrol also included friends who were not registered Scouts, and the boys got permission from their parents. It was not arranged through the Troop. But LONG BEFORE they have a driver's license, we START Patrol backpacking on monthly camping trips at Scout camps with a mature Patrol camping Baden-Powell's distance of 300 feet. Weak Patrols are proportionally closer to the adults. Patrol Camping is all about the leadership skills that come from INDEPENDENCE, not distance. 300 feet can be high adventure, especially after dark. EVERY Scout Camp has room for that, because if they backpack 300 feet away, the Patrol carries everything on its back and only the adults need to camp in an automobile accessible "basecamp" with the weak Patrols. If you are on good terms with the Camp Ranger, ask him for suggestions on where to camp. If you are NOT on good terms with the Camp Ranger, then GET on good terms with the Camp Ranger Obviously, successful monthly Patrol backpacking trips of 300 feet can lead to 400 feet, then 1000 feet, then even a mile or two in some Scout camps as the Troop prepares for a "real" backpacking trip in a National Forest where the older Scout Patrol will split off from the basecamp. Again, Patrol Camping is all about INDEPENDENCE, not distance. Oh, and we call it "lightweight camping" or "wilderness camping" NOT backpacking Kudu

pinkflame writes: "It seems the thread is a little derailed." The thread is perfectly on point. It is inherently racist to "reinvent Scouting" to target Hispanic youth. The last time white BSA millionaires reinvented Scouting (in 1972) so as to dumb it down to what they perceived to be the minority level, the BSA went into a sharp decline from which the article admits the BSA has never recovered: The group remains the largest youth organization in the United States, with 2.8 million children, nearly all of them boys. But that is about half of its peak membership, which was reached in 1972. The Baby-Boomer's parents did not suddenly stop reproducing in 1961 so as to cause the sharp decline in 1972 as indoor modernists insist. When you start with the racist premise that Latin boys are different (strong family connections and relaxed individual achievement, for instance), then you end up with holders of the Wood Badge getting all weepy about "inclusiveness" and "making ethical choices" while family camping with grandma and baby sis. Last summer I was taken on a tour of a pilot project at Camp Thunder, GA that seeks to move Scouting in this direction. They have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars building upscale family camping centers in the Scout camp, including wide platform porches complete with family rocking chairs! And why not? Many Councils have spent that much on summer school cafeterias to lure boys indoors away from the Patrol Method. When I recruit in the public schools, I talk about bears, rattlesnakes, matches, knives, guns, arrows, Patrol camping, Patrol hiking, and learning how to be a hero in an emergency. I get the same percentage of Latins as are in the school population. These are real boys, not Wood Badge "modern boys." Do you want to know what Latin "family connections" means if you recruit to get ALL BOYS rather than targeting "Hispanic" boys? It means Latin boys come back with their brothers and sometimes a couple cousins, and it means you don't split them up into different Patrols. The only "reinvention" that Scouting needs is to reinvent its Mission Statement, give up passive brown nose sniffing at the wrong end of popular culture, and RECRUIT with the MISSION to get back to Scouting's TRADITIONAL OUTDOOR ROOTS. See: http://inquiry.net/adult/recruiting.htm Kudu

SSScout writes: "No adult leaders. Six boys. 2000 miles." At the time the BSA trained Scouts to how to hike without adults. Note the similarity between the BSA's First Class Journey and Baden-Powell's: (5) Make a round trip alone (or with another Scout) to a point at least seven miles away (fourteen miles in all), going on foot, or rowing a boat, and write a satisfactory account of the trip and things observed. Kudu

back in school and Scouting, he says the boys found they had to live up to newly acquired reputations. His older brother, Mandel, recently recalled that his sibling had lacked the self-confidence needed to be a leader. But, "after the hike, that fear seemed to have vanished," Max Gordon remembers. "Other boys and girls turned to me for leadership. The hike had given me 'status', and it was respected by the teachers. It was a very good feeling." That is a good example of boys learning leadership SOLELY from the SELF-CONFIDENCE that comes from undertaking challenging outdoor JOURNEYS, rather than the obesity business formulas that we have taught since Scouting's sharp decline in popularity in 1972. When Scouting takes place outdoors, OUTDOOR SKILLS ARE LEADERSHIP SKILLS! This is why Baden-Powell's game requires "Scout Journeys" or "Expeditions" through unfamiliar territory: Required Scout Journeys 2nd Class = 8 miles 1st Class = 15 miles Life = 20 miles (Bushman's Cord Venturer Proficiency Badge) Traditionally, Scouts also participate in the following Optional Scout Journeys Star = 2 days, 1 night (Scout Cord Explorer Proficiency Badge) Life = 10 miles + 10 miles (overnights) + 30 miles (2 nights) (Bushman's Cord Hiker Proficiency Badge ["Hiker" = "Backpacker"]) Eagle = 50 miles on foot or water, or 120 miles horseback (Queen's Scout Senior Explorer Proficiency Badge) See: http://www.inquiry.net/outdoor/activities/scout_journeys.htm(This message has been edited by Kudu)

Thanks Brent! Substitute "citizenship" for "patriotism" in the last sentence, and you have Baden-Powell's definition of Scouting in a nutshell: "I know a man whose school could never teach him patriotism, but who acquired that virtue when he felt in his bones the vastness of his land, and the greatness of those who founded it."

What do you expect, Purple Fox? Popularity contests are the natural result of regular elections, which are designed to "give everybody his turn" to "learn how to be a leader." Without the addition of "Position of Responsibility" (POR) advancement requirements, the Leadership Development Method invented in 1972 would have been just as harmless as the 1972 "Personal Growth" Method Before POR requirements, Patrols held elections only when they needed a new Patrol Leader. The Scoutmaster's job was to head off poor choices through diplomatic methods explained in the Handbook for Scoutmasters, and to encourage a Patrol to vote for its most talented natural leader. In turn it was THESE strongest leaders, the Patrol Leaders in Council, who voted for the SPL that they wanted to coordinate their efforts. "Boy led" in THOSE days meant Patrols that hiked and camped without hovering adults. The BSA called them "Real Patrols." "Boy led" THESE days means adults "keep hands off" regular six month elections so that they can teach business manager formulas to the greatest number of Scouts. And then make wisdom noise about how Scouts "learn important lessons" about democracy through the consequences of their poor choices. And what difference does it make? The Patrol Leader's Training course that taught Scouts how to run "Real Patrols" was replaced in 1972 with "Junior Leader Training" that replaced specific outdoor Patrol Leader skills with generic group theory. So the Scouts are correct. Regular elections are a joke, so why NOT elect the LEAST talented popular boy to be SPL? What difference does it make? Six months from now some other kid will take his place. Regular elections give every boy a chance to learn abstract "leadership" formulas and how to make "ethical choices." Leadership Development "experts" (AKA business manager nerds) are very proud of that. They boast that what makes Scouting different from popular things like sports is that since its sharp decline in 1972 Scouting is no longer led by the most talented natural boy leaders. As a Committee Member it is not up to you to change Troop culture, but any Scoutmaster can fix the problems caused by Leadership Development if he or she wants to: 1. Stop Regular Elections: The BSA does NOT mandate regular elections. 2. Figure Out Which Scouts are the Best Leaders: Before 1972 this was an important adult skill. My own criteria are: a) Above average IQ and verbal skills; b) A natural sense of fair play, especially when adults are not looking (see Scout Law for specifics); c) An absolute love of outdoor adventure which once a month places Troop campouts above sports or a weekend job; d) A bearing that discourages anarchy when the adults aren't looking. A real leader MUST have control. 3. Talk to the Best Boy Leaders and Ask Them to Serve: There are reasons why your best leaders don't run again after they get POR credit. Find out why and empower the PLC to fix it. Offer the best boy leaders suggestions on how to get elected--leadership as service is to "help other people at all times," and it is more noble that stepping aside for an unqualified Scout. 4. Meet with a Patrol Before It Holds an Election: A Patrol should hold an election on its own schedule ONLY when it NEEDS a new leader. As the Handbook for Scoutmasters suggested before 1972, talk to the Patrol about what qualities make the best leaders. The fact that you consider their choice important enough to meet with them will usually lead them to make what you consider to be the obvious choice. At a certain point the older Scouts will start holding Patrol elections without informing the adults. 5. Move SPL Candidate Selection to the PLC: In 1972 the BSA moved SPL elections from the PLC to the whole Troop. However there are NO rules that govern the criteria (or lack there-of) a Troop uses to decide who is qualified to run! So simply move this qualifying process back to a frank dialogue between the Patrol Leaders and the Scouters behind closed doors, as both Baden-Powell and William Hillcourt suggested. 6. Make the Patrol Method Real: Philmont is nice, but Patrol hiking and Patrol camping should provide the primary SENSE OF ADVENTURE all year 'round. The least risky way is to allow your best Patrols to camp the furthest from the adults. If you are on good terms with the camp ranger, ask him for his advice on how to spread out your mature Patrols. Every Boy Scout camp has enough space somewhere. Physical independence from "sitting side by side with adults of character" is the only thing that makes a Patrol's selection of their best leader real-world IMPORTANT. Oh, and welcome to the forum, MEpurpleWBfox! Kudu

SR540Beaver writes: "The content has always dealt with leadership training since day one." You will know that the BSA is gearing up for a "Wood Badge for the Second Decade of the 21st Century" to move us from the profound secrets of business management into the era of soccer for Latinos, when SR540Beaver starts substituting the word "referee" for "leadership" and boldly asserts that "Wood Badge has always dealt with sportsmanship training since day one." The idea that Scouting "leadership" exists separately from Patrol Outdoor Skills was invented in 1972, NOT "day one" BobWhite writes: "A fact which has been explained to Kudu in the past and yet he continues to spout this nonsense." For those who slept through Wood Badge and do not understand its goals, simply volunteer to staff the Patrol Method session of Scoutmaster and Assistant Scoutmaster Specific Training. If you actually read the course outline you will understand its plain meaning. BobWhite writes: "the drivel claimed by Kudu...absolute gibberish" BobWhite, recently you claimed that only one person has made it to your "Ignore" list. How exactly can the rest of us earn that much-coveted status? Brent Allen writes: "Kudu, Happy New Year!" And a Happy New Year to you, my neighbor to the north. I hear Dunwoody will bring in the New Year at 27 F tonight. That is 5 degrees below FREEZING! bbbbrrrrrrrrrr how can you live so close to the north pole? Brent Allen writes: "I'm wondering how things work in your unit when you go camping. In the interest of full disclosure I live in the south now, in a one-Troop town with 50 Scouts and a Troop trailer full of heavy Patrol boxes However, a year after leaving I am still listed as Scoutmaster of my old Troop up north because they can not find a new one, so I suppose I can still say "my unit" Brent Allen writes: "Is it a Troop rule that patrols must camp at least 300' apart?" Understand that once Scouts have camped a football field away from the nearest adult, it becomes something that they WANT to do, as long as the weight of their gear is not too much to lug. So the proper question is "Is there a Troop rule that governs which Patrols are ALLOWED to camp 300' away?" I admire your use of the Patrol Method including Patrol cooking at summer camp, but it sounds like you haven't tried this yet. If not, then why not let your strongest Patrol camp a little further away just as an experiment? I think you and your most mature Scouts will find it very rewarding. Brent Allen writes: "Is this enforced by the SM? No, a "football field apart" is the ideal, but at night that distance can vary greatly depending on the conditions. It is a personality thing not a strict "rule"! If the strongest boy-leader is a Patrol Leader, then his Patrol gets to camp the furthest away from the adults. The weaker the leader, the closer I want him to me, but I don't micro-manage a good Patrol Leader unless he spaced out on the previous campout. A Patrol only holds an election when they need a new Patrol Leader, so the strongest, most committed boy in the Patrol is almost always the Patrol Leader for as long as he continues to go camping. If the strongest boy-leader is the SPL (as it was when I left), then I leave the spacing up to him after we discuss it. A strong SPL does not always follow my advice, but he hears about it when he is wrong Brent Allen writes: "What happens if two patrols wish to camp closer to each other? Are they allowed to do that, or are they over-ruled by the SM?" No problem, they just have to set up nearer to the adults, Cub Scout style, like in most BSA Troops these days. As Mike F points out, letting two Patrols camp close together without adult supervision can be a serious mistake. Be careful with that. Kudu

Bob White writes: This is where comparing everything to B-Ps original program and original intent is so flawed. The original program was written for teenagers in Victorian England." SR540Beaver writes: "Scouting began in Victorian England. It appealed to the boys of that era for a variety of reasons. But times have changed." The original program was written to get teenagers OUT of Victorian parlors after the chestnut-hued Boers (Dutch for "farmers") handed the pasty indoor English boys so many humiliating defeats in the Boer War. Camping was already "old fashioned" in Victorian England. Scouting made a game out of it. Real Scouting has ALWAYS been an outdoor cure for the negative effects of modernization. Both the industrial revolution and the current technological revolution create market forces that profit from moving boys indoors. And now American Scouting wants to follow the money. Wood Badge (the bridge between corporate interests and volunteer training) promotes the idea that Scouting is all about abstract things like the "Aims of Scouting" or the "Mission Statement," so it is a quick bait and switch to declare that camping is "old fashioned" and that "values" can be just as easily taught to teenagers indoors or on a small Cub Scout campsite "sitting side by side with adults of character." "Even Baden-Powell changed his vision of scouting during his life time, perhaps its time others did as well." Baden-Powell's outdoor program became more challenging, not less. He required constant retesting and a major backwoods expedition for every award in Scouting. "When the BSA changed to allow women as Scoutmasters some leaders quit, others took their place. When the uniform changed some leaders quit, others took their place. When the inner city handbook came out some leaders quit, others took their place. If the changes that develop from this new marketing strategy are not to your liking no one will make you be a scout leader...others will take your place." This is what happens when Congress picks corporate winners. If you are protected from market forces, then why NOT hire a dress designer to impose his fashion statement on uniforms for adolescent boys? Why NOT take the outing out of Scouting? Why NOT play soccer instead of camping? The Congressional Charter protects the BSA from a healthy free market so that the BSA never has to play to its own base. As Bob White points out with a finger in your eye, where else are you going to go? Without the Charter, competing associations that take pride in being "old fashioned" would be free to provide Americans with Traditional Scouting based on Baden-Powell's outdoor program. BUT, in return for the nanny-state's protection, the BSA agreed to the TERMS of this Congressional Charter which mandate that the PURPOSE of this artificial protected monopoly is to build "the ability of boys to do things for themselves and others, to train them in scoutcraft...using the methods that were in common use by boy scouts on June 15, 1916." It is only the fancy theories that shift the "purpose" of Scouting away from the legal mandate to be "old fashioned" (1916-style) that encourage holders of the Wood Badge to heap scorn on Baden-Powell. In this new era of public backlash against corporate CEOs who violate the public trust, who hold the plain meaning of federal law in contempt, and who use fancy Mission Statements and obscure business theories to substitute "values" for a tangible product of TRUE value, we should all write to Congress and ask them to free us from those old-fashioned Victorian "methods that were in common use by boy scouts on June 15, 1916." I'm sure that the new Congress would let us swap corporate business theory and "values" for old-fashioned Patrol camping, since that is what we have been doing since 1972 anyways. Certainly we can negotiate a better deal now than we could back in 1916! If millionaire CEOs and Wood Badge experts really believe that outdoor Patrols are "old fashioned" and "Victorian," let's all put pen to paper and free our fearless leaders from the nanny state! Little League gets along fine without a monopoly on the word "baseball." I'm sure that millionaire Scouting executives and their Wood Badge experts could combine their state-of-the-art "contemporary leadership concepts utilized in the corporate world and leading government organizations" with their awesome insight into "what modern boys really want" to compete in a free market without that old-fashioned Congressional Charter. Nothing focuses the mind like competition! Kudu

Dan Beard offers plans for a folding "Umbrella Canoe" that can be thrown over your shoulder. It is made out of canvas and ash poles: "Five yards of canvas is all you need. The deck can be made of drilling, which comes about twenty-eight inches wide. Five yards of this will be plenty. Fit your canvas over the frame, stretch it tightly, and tack it securely to the two top ribs only. Fasten the deck on in the same manner. "With ordinary care the umbrella canoe will last for years, and is a good boat for paddling on inland streams and small bodies of water; and when you are through with it for the night all that is necessary is to remove the stretchers by springing the poles from the notches in the spreaders, roll up the canvas around the poles, put it on your shoulder, and carry it home or to camp, as shown in Fig. 219." See The Inquiry Net: http://inquiry.net/outdoor/summer/boats/umbrella_canoe.htm For a collection of boat plans Dan Beard designed for boys to build without adult supervision, see: http://inquiry.net/outdoor/summer/boats/index.htm Kudu

"I really do hope the initiative succeeds. It can only strengthen Scouting." All of this racial sensitivity crap can only HARM Scouting. Or, more precisely, what little is left of Scouting after the last great inclusiveness "re-invention" of Boy Scouts in 1972 when we added rats and cockroaches to "signs of wildlife" so that we could eliminate camping as a requirement for Scouting's highest award and (more importantly) for Patrol leadership. That is NOT an exaggeration. To appeal to the indoor white business executive's idea of how to expand into the urban "market-share," any "modern boy" could earn Eagle Scout and (MORE IMPORTANTLY!) be a Patrol Leader without EVER having camped in the woods in his entire life. To this day any modern couch potato can STILL earn Eagle Scout without EVER paddling a canoe or walking into the woods with a pack on his back! Outdoor skills are now even more segregated from the "modern" CEO model of leadership by defining them as "Advancement." Look at page 8 of The Patrol Leader Handbook, the job description is all about office manager skills. But before the 1972 BSA cultural revolution, Patrol leadership was ALL about the ability to lead a Patrol into the woods for the day or overnight without "adults of character" hovering side by side to improve your character. Were serious about this, said Rob Mazzuca, chief executive of the Scouts. This is a reinventing of the Boy Scouts of America. Remember that this Rob Mazzuca, hired the year after the BSA removed any required "outing" from "Scouting," is the guy whose vision statement of the future is to lure boys indoors so they can sit in front of computer screens "side by side with adults of character:" "You can teach a kid about character and leadership using aerospace and computers. The secret is to get them side by side with adults of character...We recognize the evolving science of leadership. We've had CEOs on our board say they want to send their people to Wood Badge, our adult leader training program, because we use state-of-the-art techniques." Who needs Patrol Leaders when you have the "Adult Association" state-of-the-art Wood Badge science so loved by the millionaire CEO golden parachute crowd? Does anyone wonder why in 1972 the indoor office managers removed "The Scout Way: A Game, NOT a Science" from the official Aims & Methods of Scouting? Hal writes: "How will an influx of Latino scouts play out at a camporee or summer camp?" Up north my Troop was at times about half Latino and black. We never had problems with white Troops, but sometimes there was friction with staff over the Cub Scout "Make it Fun" mentality that substitutes infantile distractions for the pre-1972 Patrol-based outdoor adventure that we stressed in our own Troop. For instance one year at summer camp the new Scouts who picked the first year program wanted to drop out after the first day. This was a rugged Boy Scout summer camp in the Adirondacks with Patrol cooking (no Cub Scout dinning hall or Wood Badge salad bar contractors)! I caught up them on the trail on the second day. All of the first year participants except for our Scouts were covered in mud from an obstacle course that had been flooded with water to make it fun. Our Scouts were all clean. It turned out that our Scouts had refused to participate in the "Make it Fun" activities as soon as the staff had started to alternate a game of "Duck, Duck, Goose" with each advancement requirement checked off the list. So we pulled our Scouts out of the first year program and set up our own skills instruction for those who were interested (I encourage first year Scouts to take Swimming, Canoe, and First Aid Merit Badges and not to think about Advancement, but water-based activities are not popular with many black Scouts). The mud obstacle course looked like fun to me, but it was simply beneath the dignity of our "Scouts of color." They were too cool for that, which in turn tended to influence our white Scouts. We had the same problem with Camporees until the Scouts simply vetoed them at the yearly planning meetings. "Inclusiveness" is just an excuse for the Wood Badge CEO agenda to dumb Scouting down to the Cub Scout level. If you ignore race and get back to offering ALL boys the rugged adventure of the traditional Patrol-based BSA outdoor program, you won't have to brainstorm Den Leader ideas to "Make it Fun!" Kudu

SR540Beaver writes: "If all the units in my council followed the excellent example set at our 21st Century Wood Badge courses, they would have their patrols in different campsites spread across the whole camp.....because that is what we've done both weekends." Yeah, that excellent example is probably the very last vestige of Baden-Powell's Wood Badge, isn't it? The question is: "Why do so very few holders of the Wood Badge take the Wood Badge Patrol Method home to their own Troops?" Wood Badge teaches participants to receive Boy Scout Patrols as opportunities to practice Leadership Development theory. Therefore, the more elections the better because a higher turnover of Patrol Leaders and other "Positions of Responsibility" (POR) means a higher number of Scouts can learn Leadership Development theory. What would happen if we encouraged the same rate of turnover in BSA Lifeguards, or Little League pitchers? You would see the depth of the water or the distance between bases shrink in proportion to the actual competency of the POR, just as the distance between Patrols shrinks when the purpose of the Patrol Method is to practice "leadership" theory. If the purpose of the Patrol Method was still ADVENTURE (and membership retention) as it was before the invention of Leadership Development, then the distance between Wood Badge Patrols would be part of the theory taught at Wood Badge. When participants returned to their home Troops, they would routinely post to Scouter.Com and other forums for practical suggestions as to how to actually spread out the Patrols in their unit as they learned in Wood Badge. Most of the objections to bringing the practice home are excuses NOT reasons: they are the kind theoretical gloom and doom that skeptics howled not so very long ago when they brainstormed "reasons" why it was "impossible" for the BSA to sell an outdoor Uniform Kudu (This message has been edited by Kudu)

In the 1920s the BSA model of Scouting included two different sets of Aims: ADULT AIMS (Character, Citizenship), and "BOY AIMS" (Pleasure, Interest). From the Scout's perspective the "Purpose" of spreading those Patrols out is ADVENTURE.