John-in-KC

SP, Listen to the attorney (Beavah). He's telling you the consequences of the contract. He's learned contract law, more than once. When Beavah, or the judge, starts talking the stuff of law, I stop and listen.

Which leads us right back to my reply of January 2009. We have young women serving our Council Scout Reservations during the season. These women do more for the ethic of Cheerful Service than 75% of the Boy Scout youth members. These young women are foreclosed from membership in our Order. They are not many (maybe 1,000 Nationwide), but they deserve far better.

I have sworn off Doritos forever...

Lisa, quite rightly said: "...but intentionally building personal relationships across units could." That is the ultimate point. This is all about people. People working together. People working together, --- in units, --- in their Chartered Partners overall vision --- in their Districts and Councils. 90%+ of Scouting is volunteer. We do this because we want to. It has to be personally rewarding at a fairly high level, because we all can easily fill the time we give to Scouting with other activity. Lisa, you're right, I may well be mis-interpreting lack of communication for malice and forethought. The result is the same, units do not play nice together. The good thing about lack of communication is a little, just a little, low-level effort solves the problem. Units not playing nice from malice and forethought need adult supervision. My thoughts.

I've spent a lot of time these past several years reading Lisa, and she I. Her post describes something pretty good: Two units, under the same partner, who work through the differences. What I see in the OP's message is different, from a perception: I do not see leaders in the units able to play nice with each other anymore Beavah's model of adult as agent, though, has a point of breakdown as well: If the units are running well, then each has an agency obligation to the other. If the units are operating poorly, then there are other problems needing fixing before folks can expect the units to work together. Kamelian, have you assessed your Troop? How does it support the Aims and Methods of Boy Scouting?

Kamelian, Thanks. First, Scouting in a chartered partner should be synergistic: The Troop provides reach back support to the Pack, the Pack provides arms and legs for certain service projects (and training opportunities) to the Troop. I first suggest a business cup of coffee with your IH and COR. Ask your IH to put it together. To me, your goal is to have a COR who wants to care about all the Scouting your Partner buys into. If your COR does not want to be supportive of the total Scouting of the Partner, offer to the IH to take on that job. Next, as you stated, make sure the Troop is running well. Use all the resources available to you to make that happen: Training, roundtables, commissioner visits. If you Troop isn't running well, you don't have a leg to stand on to assert any privilege of claiming the Cubs. Get yourself ready to deploy Den Chiefs, to provide an ASM whose role is program liaison to the CM/DLs/Pack Committee (and he co-registers as a MC in the Pack), and to provide reach-back support. Now, when your Troop is executing a good program, then it's time to have the COR call a meeting between the two CCs, the two CMs, and the Web I/II DL. At this meeting the COR lays down expectations. The chartered partner is the franchisee of record to the Council. If there are objections (and there will be some), it's time to get them on the table. Some will be valid; it's your job to fix those in the Troop. Some will be bogus: It's the COR's job to say "that's not acceptable." If there is flat out refusal by any leader, the COR can (not necessarily should) say "Thank you for your past services. You are no longer a part of Pack/Troop XXX." It'd be really nice if the two sets of leaders did not need an IH/COR laying down the law, but what you have described is two units under the same partner not playing nice to each other. Now, one last thing: Go look at the other Troops in the area. Objectively, assess how your Troop uses the Aims, Methods, and program materials compared to them. If they are the better Troop, of course families are going to want to join them. It's then your job to improve. If, however, you're doing the good things, make it be known. I wish you good hunting.

Since I counsel the PRAY program, both in my own parish and in the District I serve, let me ask one question: God and Family is about how the boy interacts with the Lord within the family! Can you honestly tell me that what the Cub does in creating his pizza box allows him time to interact with his family in 2 sessions a week? That to me is a pretty huge dropaway.

Scoutbox: Check out National Stock Number 7530-00-656-0612: Plotting sheet, 1000 meter grid square, 47" long, 35" wide, issued in BOXES of 50. Your US Army Materiel Command: Supporting the Soldier. You asked for a box of grid squares.

Kamelian, May I ask your registered Scouting position in the Troop, please? I would hope you are the CC or the SM.

I tend to agree with BadenP. That said: - Does the Troop have a healthy program, using the Aims and Methods of Boy Scouting? - Does the Pack have a healthy program, using the Aims and Methods of Cub Scouting? Those two questions are simply the 50,000 foot view for looking at units. - Are there personality conflicts between the two sets of leaders? This is where the COR can assert the Chartered Partner's ownership of the units. Frankly, the best units I've seen, even sharing a Chartered Partner, get their recruits because they have great program for the youth. Parents, (and hopefully their kids) have complete freedom of choice in evaluating the next unit in the Scouting cycle. They'll see through smokescreens and bovine scatology if its there. So, if the partnership is not working naturally, it's time to ask "Why?" ... which takes us back to what BadenP stated: IH/COR have a heart to heart talk with the Pack and Troop leadership.

Actually, I am. Someone I know who has a cancer was admitted to an area ICU last night for 2d order of magnitude complications of treatment. Not in my intimate circle, but in the next ring out...

Pack, It would not have bothered me if it had been posted on April Fools' Day. As it was, it was originally posted in I&P, and I make make a face value ruling on stuff there that the OP knows it's a) serious and b) contentious.

http://www.cgc.maricopa.edu/academic-affairs/library/mags-journals/Pages/hoaxes.aspx Googling on pacific northwest tree octopus "scientific+american" yields hundreds of articles in that august magazine not one bloody word. OGE: May we close this attempt at an online snipe hunt please?

This stuff!!! http://www.ghirardelli.com/products/cocoa_sweet.aspx Ghirardelli Sweet Ground Chocolate & Cocoa In heated milk! (I say heated because you do not want to scorch the milk and ruin its taste). Of course, I grew up a Southern Californian (along with Trevorum), so I might be a tiny bit hugely biased.

Mike, The time to start selling parents is Bear year, by deploying Den Chiefs and furnishing appropriate program support downward to the Pack. Scouting For Food, other service projects, and even camping events go better when Cub Scouts see Boy Scouts in action! If parents see Boy Scouts as a natural part of the life of a Cub Scout Pack, they're more likely to continue the trail themselves. That's all the more true when you deploy an experienced Scout to be Den Chief, who is articulate and trusted/empowered by his Den Leader.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

I have to agree with both you guys. There is a need for a few things to be committed to paper. Most of them are operational. They're more like aids than business practices. The Chartered Partner may declare how certain practices will happen. Those are different. They have the force of the franchisee. They should be at the front of any set of operating practices, and they are business practices. One example might be: "Capital expenditures over $5,000 require advance approval of the IH and the COR." Most of the time, though, the object of the exercise is to build an adult team that believes in "cooperate and graduate". This kind of team, program folks and support folks alike, helps keep the drama low and the program delivery high.

My two cents: Advancement is but one of the methods. Even so, part of the learning of Cub Scouting comes through undertaking the advancement program. If there's no advancement going on, if there's no plan to move into Boy Scouting (another of the methods), then there may be deeper problems. I'd have a friendly cup of coffee with your Committee Chair, COR, and Commssioner: It's time to figure out how the Pack is going to handle this Den as they head to the exits. You'll get better advice locally most likely from other folks who know the local ground. As far as ceremonies go, if they are as apathetic as the OP described, I'd be equally apathetic as they hit the exits. At whatever the last Pack meeting is where they'll be around, simply say "This is the final meeting for the following Cubs of Webelos II Den #: We wish you Godspeed."

If you think this is real, cite a current scientific journal ... one that publishes in hardcopy. www.zapato.com : Zapato Productions: Serving The Paranoid Since 1997 Your Source For Conspiracies & Other Diversions

jhankins, All the unit has to say is we will start a Scout unit again at some point in the future. Voila! The stuff is theirs. It's supposed to be in trust for future Scouting, but it's theirs. Of course, as the Hizzoner the Judge has told us, your States property laws govern the terms of the franchise charter agreement.

APRIL FOOL's DAY is 1 APRIL, not 2 February. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Northwest_tree_octopus HOAX.

So very cool, Lisa Here's to him and his patrol having a weeklong blast!

Nike, If the divorce is between reasonably mature people, yes. Sadly, too many divorces are between immature people, mine included.

I'm a divorced Dad, albeit local. I was also the non-residential parent. Our divorce and relationship post-divorce was nasty. My son did not go to Scout Camp his first year in the program. She refused to concede the time. The next several years, I asked for my summer parenting period the week after our camp draw. I'll leave the rest of the story on the table. The only advice I can offer to unit serving Scouters is: Do whatever you can, whatever you must to get a Scout to summer camp. The kid needs it. If necessary, get with your District Chairman. Somewhere in your District there's a volunteer who is an attorney. While he/she won't enter the case, he/she may be able to either tell you some of the landmines you'll be walking in, or if you're really blessed, make a phone call or two (attorney-attorney) and lower the drama. ETA: Yes, I went to camp with my son. Now, I did work to stay where I could see him, but not necessarily be directly with him, especially as he got 15 and older. OTOH, the last several summers when he as a camp staffer, I was serving the same program as a campsite commish. He had his tasks, I had mine. We'd see each other at mealtimes, but usually he ate with the youth staff, and I ate with my campsite or the adult staff.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Congratulations. I would say a simple, handwritten, "thank you" card would be more than enough. Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather have your thanks than your goods.

From the BSA Charter Agreement: Provide adequate facilities for the Scouting unit(s) to meet on a regular schedule with time and place reserved. Get your Unit Commissioner and your District Executive involved, today. It's time for a business meeting between the IH, COR, CC, SM, DE, and UC. Notice I said business meeting, not friendly cup of coffee. ETA: I see the part about your DE avoiding. Call your District Commissioner. Tell him to get the DE off his 4th point of contact. As Stosh says, it's right for a Chartered Partner to ask for service from its units. It's right to ask for events which dovetail into the program. Asking for rent/utilities, IMO, is outside that set of right and proper requests.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)