John-in-KC

funscout... Same advice. Get involved in cub leader training in your district. When you own responsibility for the product, you have a the chance to improve the product's quality!!!

Let's go back and re-look Ms sunsetandshadow's problem. New unit! Rural! Low income rural! These young Scouts are back to bedrolls vice ANY sleeping bag. Look at their tentage (improvised from plastic sheeting). Look at the food they are buying for campouts (hot dogs). What was it we get taught in Wood Badge? Determine your vision, set goals, and build a realistic path to get from where you are to where you want to be. Ms sunsetandshadow, from her writings, understands the Uniform method. She has a vision, it's constrained by reality, so she's asking for help in both goals and a realistic path. Expecting this troop of Scouts to get from "no uniforms at all" to "full uniformed instantly" is an absolute pipe dream. From what I read here, IT'S JUST NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. Concentrating on money-earning and fundraising (a Scout is Thrifty) will get this unit uniformed ... in due time. Not now, maybe not next year, but reasonably surely in five years. There's also the small matter of raising the money for Scout Camps, for weekend campouts, for gear that will take these young men into deep winter, and on and on. At the end of the day, the local unit leaders and the families concerned are the ones setting priorities. A METHOD of Scouting is a tool in the box. For Ms sunsetandshadow, how she implements the Uniform Method may be part of the success or failure of this Troop in its first year. I honestly evaluate Eagle 74's approach as fitting these particular circumstances as best as can be done, today. Tomorrow will bring changed circumstances, and the approach can change over time. Further, in another thread Lisa'bob proposed the possibility of asking for support as a ScoutReach unit. This is worth a phone call from Ms sunsetandshadow to her DE, DC, or SE!!! My two cents. Others will disagree. It's their right.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Trevorum, I went back and re-read your comment at the beginning of this thread. Funny, the awesomeness of the Godhead and of his heavenly creations was part of a substantial discussion at Bible study Sunday: "Gern, I have never understood the ritual of bowing one's head. During prayer, my way is to turn my face up towards the heavens, not down and away. I'm going to point you to three places in Scripture. First is Exodus 28. As sinful man, our direct contact with God in OT times was likely to be deadly! Equally, consider the angel's greetings to Zechariah and Mary in Luke 1: "Do not be afraid." Finally, consider what the angel told John the Evangelist in Revelation 22:8-9 : "I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I had heard and seen them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who had been showing them to me. But he said to me, "Do not do it! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers the prophets and of all who keep the words of this book. Worship God!" Now, as to this thread overall, I believe SSScout's post of B-P's quote in 1919 gets to the heart of the matter. The specifics of your individual belief in a Godhead(s) are yours to make. THAT YOU CONFESS a Godhead(s) is essential to Scouting and truly not optional. I will confess my faith as a Christian. Away from Scouting, I will share the Good News, in part because I believe Christianity is just so efficient as a faith (God did it all!). Within Scouting, my task is to ensure the youth in my charge are doing something about a faith.

There is a test: It's called hands-on service. It's pass-fail. If you do not get and maintain the confidence of your parents (since you are a Cub leader), you will fail, because the parents will pull their boys. Likewise, if you do not get and maintain a sense of fun and adventure amongst your Cub Scouts, you will fail, because they will tell their parents ... "we didn't do anything" and after a while, they will pull their boys. The one best way for you to help improve Scouting training is to get involved ... in your Pack, in your District, at Council, and Lord willing, eventually at Regional and National. From your comments, it sounds like training is a true hot button. If it is, then you owe it to yourself to get involved, and work to the goal of being an agent of change.

As a Scouter and a divorced dad (but not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV)... I think Mark S's last comment is where this thread needs to go: Ladyleader, I strongly recommend you contact your local Council office. Most, if not all Councils have an attorney volunteer to be their General Counsel. He's the right person to be giving you guidance on what you can and cannot do IN YOUR STATE!! Unfortunately, your first job ... delivering a great Cub Scouting program to 6-8 young men is colliding with the required administration of being a Den Leader. You will burn out too soon if dealing with adults prevents you from having fun by being a mentor to some great young men. At the same time, you cannot (literally) afford the time, energy, and effort that would come if a divorced parent decides to take YOU to court because you are interfering with a contractual parenting plan. Sadly, you cannot be the arbiter of the child's best interests. When parents have joint legal custody, that's a combined job. If they disagree, they have alternatives ranging from mediation to going back to the Court for more guidance. You, however, have to stay inside the lines of any decision set by the judge. So, I say again: Call your Council office. Ask who holds the post of General Counsel. Visit with him, or someone who he recommends. You'll meet a new Scouting friend, and you'll also find a path that stays in the bounds of the law.

Two comments: First, if you are contemplating the profession of Arms, it is indeed a good idea to have a plan B besides the Academies. You will be competing for less than 4000 slots Nationwide in all of them, and some of those slots you may not be eligible to use. ROTC is, in fact, the way most 2d Lieutenants and Ensigns enter the Services. As to your essay, it's yours. I'll endorse what Lisa said. I will say that in an essay on senior leadership I wrote for an Army grad school, MISSION (the task at hand) received at least token mention. Keep us informed!

There are two issues here. The first one is access to training. No one has to stay inside "my district" to take training. If, because of where the lines are drawn, it makes more sense to go to another District or even Council's classes, by all means do!!! The second issue I see is quality of training. This is a "pet rock" of mine (read through my posts in this thread) but there is a way you can help. Send feedback (it's a gift ) to your District Chairman and the head of your District training team. If they have a clue, you'll soon be invited to join the training staff. One way to improve the quality of training is to take ownership of it!!! In the meantime, work your position, attend Roundtable, and learn by sharing ... it really is one of the best ways Scouters learn! Knowledge IS power ... but only when you share it with others!

I counsel a few merit badges. When I work a Scouts' card, I put down the "hard" requirements (do this, do all these). I also leave space for the "soft" requirements (do two from this list of seven, or do one of these). Is there a requirement to annotate passage of each requirement? Not sure. Someone out there has the advancement procedures guide and will state. Is it certainly "settled custom" to initial each requirement or set of requirements? Heck, yes. Now, when I'm counseling (as Lisa'Bob is going to) 20-50 Scouts in a merit badge college environment, I may link the top and bottom requirements with initials and a "line-through." I do not want to steal time from being with the youth for administration!!!

Ahhhh.... The "Trained" strip is only part of the process. It doesn't mean you are experienced ... That's what the various knots do... they indicate not only that you've been "trained" but that you've been there and done the job, hands on, for 2-3 years!!! When you complete the classes, your trainers should have given you a qualification card towards earning the adult knot as "insert position" Scouter in a Pack.

Lisa, I do believe Trevorum is talking about the Merit Badge Card (aka Blue Card). If your SM does not have enough in bulk supply, PM me offlist, someone did a adobe acrobat "clone" of the BSA form, and I will email it to you. The paperwork he's talking about is writing down the list of requirements and popping in the date these young men passed muster on the requirement and your initials. It takes a minute or two per card, so 60-70 young men means an hour or two hours working the paper. BTW, for requirement 9: Look for sales people, political science teachers , attorneys, and even architects or general contractors. All have jobs which require extensive communications skills

I find Eagle 74's answer perhaps the most pragmatic. I'd far rather see your Troop learning skills of good camp cookery and camping than worrying about uniforms for the moment. Hot dogs can be expensive; they can learn a lot from 99 cent a pound chicken leg quarters!!! Make a plan, be flexible in implementing it, but set a target goal. BTW, I still have my youth neckerchief. Our Troop didn't use BSA official either, and this was in the 60s, so that idea has been around a while

It's not a registered position... Assistant cook at one of our Council camps for maintenance workdays, or at our other Council camp for OA inductions. There's something about making sausage gravy in the morning and seeing folks gobble it up

A Scout is Courteous. If I recall correctly, Arrowmen are Scouts and Scouters! If there's legitimate reason, and the Chapter made good faith effort to contact the SM/OATR, then work through it. If, however, the election team goofed or "blew it off", it is the obligation of the Chapter to make the recovery, with minimum inconvenience to the Troop, IMO. At a minimum, the OATR should get a "let's fix this pronto from the Chapter Chief. If an apology is due the Troop from the Chapter, then the OATR should get it and "we'll (the chapter) fix this pronto!" from the Chapter Chief. If the OATR gets "dead air" from the Chapter Chief, it's time for the SM to drop a comment at the feet of the Chapter Adviser, asking for support, now, please. If neither the youth nor the advisers are willing to support, SM has options of - Asking UC/ADC/DC for support as a PROGRAM issue - Asking COR to request support from the District Chairman (the Chapter Adviser works for the Chairman on the District Camping Committee ex officio). There's more than one Scoutmaster and Adviser minutes inside Trevorum's little conundrum... flexibility, courteousness, getting the job done, ad infinitum...

Couple of thoughts here... First, your IH/COR/CC/SM ... he really, truly needs to divide the labor. That he said he was going to be SM but not be there does not help the kids. THE SCOUTMASTER'S BIGGEST SINGLE JOB IS MENTOR TO THE YOUTH!!! Yes, I yelled that At a minimum, whoever is going to be the adult responsible for the program should get the honor, the fun, and yes the responsibility of being the Scoutmaster. I endorse much of what's been said here, especially about training. The program wasn't what it was 10 years ago, and it certainly isn't what it was 20-30 years ago. The aims are still the same, and the methods are probably the same (I've never drilled into how methods evolved over time), but the actual techniques change. I also endorse what Lisa said about contacting your Council office and asking about Scoutreach. Desireable adult training package: Fast Start Youth Protection New LEader Essentials "common core" SM Fundamentals and/or Troop COmmittee Challenge Outdoor Leader (whatever it's called this month). Keep us informed; we'll be glad to help however we can.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

What Beavah and Lisa'bob said. Additionally, since the young man HAS a record, I'd have two adult leaders and two elder youth shake down his gear upon arrival at the camp site. In addition to the UC and/or DC, I believe the District Special Needs folks should be in the loop, as should whoever the resident friendly attorney for the District/Council and the resident law enforcement officer. All are resource folks for the Troop leadership. Finally, this is one that has to be discussed between the SM/CC and the IH of the Chartered Partner. The Chartered Partner has to be willing to assume some risk here, and it's the SM/CC's job to do the selling.

Kahuna, Counselor, I think using WWII and pre-war Japan as a example of a nation that values human life is a crock of excrement, and it stinks. In 1942, the US Government, through our Swiss Embassy, received a note from the Imperial Japanese Government. It was regarding treatment of prisoners of war during what was then "the present war." Short version: Japan was not a signatory to the Conventions, honored the code of Bushido, and would treat captured soldiers as dishonored folk. Dad, a young Corporal of the 59th Coast Artillery Regiment, was fighting on Caballo Is (Fort Frank) in the Manila Bay coastal defenses at the time. He had just turned 20. He went from about 160 lbs just before the war to a low ebb of about 100lbs in mid 1944. Bottom line: Respectfully, what Japan did before Sept 1945 has zero weight with me. The bedrock moral code of a Nation, imo, has to have a buck that STOPS somewhere. It can be whatever you can point to in Buddhism, the 10 Commandments, or the Code of Hammurabi for all I care. I do dislike that our Nation has free-floated its moral code in the same way it has free-floated the currency. My thoughts. Thanks for letting me give feedback and why. YIS

I am a Christian. I am also something of an amateur historian, especially as regards the Colonial period, the Revolution, the Articles of Confederation, and the Constitution. Our Colonial period is, from what I can tell, a Judeo-Christian escape of multiple denominations from Europe. Jews to Puritans to Lutherans, we had a bunch!! Our Revolutionary and articles of Confederation period used the Enlightenment and the premises of Judeo-Christian law. Our Constitutional Convention, and the Federalist Papers, all wanted no direct link between an organized denomination and government. That said, FREEDOM TO WORSHIP was a central premise. The framers had a presumption that a Godhead mattered to people's lives!!! They didn't want the Bishop preaching from the legislator's desk! They did want the Bishop participating in the public square. Only in the mid-century past did the Supreme Court come up with the notion that MAN could legislate any/all morality, and did not need any Godhead with an absolute law. When you drop the benchmark, the rest goes to mush.

Without going into safeguarded information, different actors (and let's face it, the four C-Team principals are young Thespians in action) bring different perspectives on the same script. It's interesting to process that information, and see what comes out as important, based on what they say, HOW they say it, and how they act out their part in the ceremony ring.

What Greying Beaver said. Additionally, IMO any Troop that cannot coordinate a BOR almost "on demand" has its adult leaders' heads where the sun does not shine. As a CC, I had a week's lead from my SM on Scoutmaster conferences for advancement. While I expected the Scout to ask me for a BOR, I usually had one already on deck for the night he wanted it. Now, as a COR, I sit on them because a Scouts' feedback helps me make policy-level inputs to the CC and SM on where the Chartered Partner wants the Troop to go!

Twenty-seven years a soldier, active and reserve. Military analyst supporting a major defense contractor in simulations based training pays the bills. Volunteering as a parent with sons HS band keeps me busy when Scouting doesn't...

Space, the final frontier. These are the voyages of the website Scouter...

Let's be clear here: The Scouting knot recognizing an earned age-appropriate Religious Emblem IS A LIFETIME AWARD. Now, I know some Troops, who, because they want their youth to earn the denomination-specific confirmation age award, ask youth not to wear their knot again until that award is earned. Push come to shove, those Troops would find themselves being told, No, the Scout can wear the knot. The right person to ask is the District Relationships Committee Chairman/woman or the District RED Team coordinator!

No, my thoughts are consistent. The poster is a Cubmaster. She has the right, nay, the duty to talk to her Program Officer partner, the Scoutmaster. She can report what the youth saw. She can lay out her expectations as a program officer. Remember, feedback is a gift. They told me that for two weekends in Woodbadge. The SM ought to listen carefully. Whether his adults were imbibing or not is immaterial. Youth saw someting, and that something is a perception. They reported. If our Cubmaster gets blown off the Scoutmaster, the answer is simple: She can, on her own authority as CM, lock the doors to that Troop. I trust that as she would result to that she would let her CC and her COR know. Especially the COR. His comments at a District Committee meeting might motivate some folks. To me, doing nothing is the equivalent of letting "sod surfing" happen. Am I sending a clear message?

To mbscoutmom... I was one of those Lions who found himself in the rollout of the Webelos program. We count, but as a program graduate, my question is not so much "Is this the right name?" as "are we stretching the envelope to bring 6 year olds into the fold?" SSSScout, in the post immediately above this, hits a sad point: Families are not willing to commit to quality time with their children. Too many want a "turnkey" operation while they go do the weeks shopping. My thoughts

A State Supreme Court is not necessarily the end of the story. If there is a significant Constitutional issue, the US Supreme Court will hear an appeal from a State level "court of last resort" by granting certiorari. If there is not one, then it's pony up the bucks time. The decisionmakers will be the folks at the local Council and the folks in Irving. Give this a few months and we will see which way the chips fall, one side or the other.