John-in-KC

Scoutldr, I am not an attorney, nor do I play one on TV. I am, however, in one of my other lives, a public policy student. Sadly, illegal immigration is NOT a violation of the CRIMINAL STATUTES of the US Code, rather the CIVIL STATUTES. 8 USC 1182 simply provides that an illegal entrant to the US is ineligible for legal admission to the US. The sanction is simply deportation after administrative law proceedings. Rightly or wrongly, this is one reason the House bill seeks to criminalize presence in the US after illegal entry. Returning to the topic at hand, I tend to agree with Lisa'bob. If the National Anthem expresses the same message in Spanish as currently transliterated, I'm ok with it. OTOH, I also have a point of agreement with gwd-scouter. Why are illegal entrants protesting with the US Color upside down and the Mexican flag in visible showing? Seems to me their goal should be to work through existing Hispanic coalitions to regularize their status. This debate is just the tip of the iceberg, the whole range of labor law debate and standards of living debate come into play. There's a reason we have a huge balance of trade deficit, and it's not just oil: Others make the goods (and more than a few of the services) we Americans want and need at far less expensive prices.

Our chapter also has its meeting on RT night. For moxieman, there is an option in the RT training curriculum, called HUDDLE. As it was taught to me at Commisioner's College, it's designed to support the isolated unit by bringing tailored support from the district to the "far travelled" destination. You might ask your Key 3.

Agree and disagree. On one hand, at the 3d and 4th tier of these awards, there is recognizable difference between the Catholic Committee on Scouting materials and the PRAY generic protestant materials. OTOH, if the PARENTS sit down on the front end, look at the curriculum, and concur as a group that God and Me or its Roman equivalent are acceptable in their understandings of Christian doctrine, then maybe it's worth ADDING time to the Den schedule (such as Sunday afternoon faith meeting) to do this. In my Council, the Relationships Committee, through its operating Protestant Committee on Scouting, annually teaches all four PRAY Protestant curricula. A Scouter Pastor provides sponsorship for those youth who are unchurched or for those whose own pastors will not buy in. We do the eight meetings of the curriculum across a five month window. Additionally, our Catholic Committee on Scouting is starting a parallel program with its curricula.

It was about 10 miles, but we outgrew that facility. Our current facility is about six miles away. We're also a relatively small district, only two counties. The furthest away is not quite 30 miles from the site.

No, it's not all about money, but there comes a point where parental budgets hit the far end of the stretch. Do we, as unit serving Scouters, - look at what we CAN do? - or do we let the youth have license, and then... - the parents pull them because they are spending too much time raising money for their activities? - or the family budget has reached the breaking point? I've already made a substantial choice in my personal and scouting life, given my budget!!!

Mr emb021, Thanks. This didn't sound right to me either.

I'm at the point where I'm not going to restaurants anymore, and the library has replaced Barnes and Noble. Gas is $2.80 a gallon here in Flyover Country. To go to our Scout Reservation, the distance is 140 miles OW from the parking lot of the chartered partner to the parking lot of the Reservation. My jeep gets 19.1 miles to the gallon. I use ~~7.32 gallons of gas one way. That's $20.50 for a one way trip, or $41 for the RT. At $1.80 (where gas was at Christmas), that same RT refill cost is $26.18. My jeep has four passenger seatbelts. That means the shared cost is $8 per person. Contrast this with two camps that are but 40 miles away. I use 2.09 gallons of gas OW, or 4.18 for the RT. It's $5.85 for fuel OW, or 11.70 for the RT. We do have to teach stewardship to our young men. To me, going closer in for most trips is better stewarship of natural resources (less gas used), better stewardship of their own resources (less of their money used), and, in planning carloads carefully, better stewardship of both fuel and money!! We've got these young men earning money for annual summer camp ($200 a head for 10 days here), money for HA, money for their dues, money for their personal equipment and uniforms. We need to teach making good choices as well YIS

FScouter's comment is true, but it assumes your Scoutmaster and his ASMs are indeed trained!!! If they are not, may I suggest training!!!!???

Local BSA Supply Corporation Scout Shop says the Physician patch is still in production. Blue border, white background! Agree with others... use the right pocket body for an EMT patch as a "temporary patch."

Boy led does not necessarily mean "boys have license." Freedom implies responsibility and stewardship, not license. As a Committee Chair, I told my SPL at the Committee meeting before the Annual troop program planning meeting that "Freedom implies responsibility and stewardship, not license." When they came back to us with a request for a 300 mile weekend campout, with no special attraction at the far end, we put the PLC on appetite supressants. Amazing what happens when we said they could not ask their parents for gas money for that trip, and that our fuel budget would be $35 per car. They got the message. There ARE close-in spots for camping and hiking to virtually everywhere in the Nation. Use those first. (This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Mr or Ms Berlin, Welcome to the Campfire. Pull up a log. Set a spell. First and foremost: UNIFORM IS NOT a method of the Venturing program. In fact, here are the Methods of the Venturing Program which in turn reinforce the Aims of the Boy Scouting Movement (Character Development, Citizenship Training, and Personal Fitness): - Recognition - Group Activities - Leadership - High Adventure - Ideals - Teaching Others - Adult Association The uniform is SOLELY the choice of the Crew. Eamonn's crew is finding Naval uniforms for his Sea Scout ship. I know another crew that uses non-BSA sprice green shirts. My Crew uses either blue jeans or Cabela's grey cargo pants/shorts (lots cheaper than Supply Corporation). There are times the Crew may want to be dressy. What's wrong with blazers and a dress shirt? NOTHING. Let the youth members make a choice. Ask anyone who advocates otherwise to show their card as a member of the Uniform Police. Then send them to New Leader Essentials Venturing Specific Training!!!

Speaking as a COR, A Chartered Partner does need to care about its units. This is even more true at start-up. Yes, the founding families of a unit do end up buying lots of things for the future. Been there, done that, as a Scout, as a parent, as a Scouter. Even so, if a Chartered Partner is going to commit to Scouting as part of its overall program, it should be willing to help during the formation and nurturing phase. Now, with all that said, I would ask your DE to be listening for units closing up ... they do happen. Chartered Partners closing up Scouting operations have two choices: They can release property for redistribution to other units (like yours), or they can retain it in trust for reactivation of the unit at a later date.

Kristi, Your family and job have to come first. You did the right thing ... as a leader and as an academic professional. If the parents in your Pack did not understand you work in that building, then they are truly disconnected from their childrens' universe. I know the tears, but know you did what had to be done

Two comments: Talking with my friend who is on our District Training Committee as a Cub trainer, and who is also on Cub RT staff, the cutoff is the academic elevation by the school to the next grade. No more ninth birthday. That's his reading of CS requirements and policy. That said, he also made one other comment: "As long as the date on the advancement report for Wolf is before the date for Bear, who is going to care down at the Registrar's office?"

My Dad went with me on the High Adventure trips we did when I was a Scout. The first year, we used a tube tent together ... a couple of times. Then, we went to just sleeping under the stars (California in 1969-71 did not have nearly the bear challenges Philmont seems to these days). The second and third trails? We were all in the same circle, but Dad was a few folk away. On ordainary campouts? I slept with my friends. My son? The closest he's ever come to sleeping with me was last year, where he was ad hoc SPL for an OA overnight troop supporting inductions during the summer camping season. He was two tents away in leader country.

My Council is also getting internet advancement. Look at it this way: Direct access to ScoutNet, and OWNERSHIP of data entry in your unit!!! If your clerks are like my clerks, there are errors galore in the advancement databases at Council. Bottom Line: I TELL COUNCIL what a Scouts' record looks like when he achieves Eagle. They take my word.

Frankly, I'd start with my own needs assessment. Visit the units. Talk with the SMs, CMs, and CCs. Get a gut feel for what's happening in the District. How is NLE working? What about the outdoor curriculum? THEN ... Look at all the curricula. Figure out what the bite sizes of your elephant are, and have fun. In my District, the Training Committee runs the following trainings EVERY MONTH AT ROUNDTABLE: - CS/BS Youth protection. (Venturing YP is a more complex package) - New Leader Essentials Common Core. - Merit Badge Counselor. Let us know how we can help you

Welcome to our campfire. Pull up a log. Enjoy. Houston, we have a problem!!!! Leadership in ANY scout unit should never be done by "election." The Chartered Partner of the unit (the OWNERS!!) recruit leaders, train them, and formally select them for their jobs. There is a person who can tell the "old" pack committee "goodbye." That person is the Chartered Organization Representative. HE OR SHE, ALONE, is entitle to make "hire" and "fire" decisions, particularly for a unit committee chair and the program officer (cubmaster, scoutmaster, Advisor). If the COR says they stay, the election is null and void. Those are the leaders he chooses. As always, we don't know the full facts here. Our advice is based on our understanding of Scouting policy and practice coupled to the challenge as you present it to us.

Ed, Follow the procedure (Scoutldr wrote it word for word from Requirements). Get his physician's evaluation on what the Scout CAN do. If he can hike or bike ride, expand on those. Yes, they are already requirements, but when I was a Tenderfoot, I had to do THREE five milers for 2d Class (1969 or so). Let us know how the process works

Barry, Having read carefully what you wrote, I would have no problem (in any way, shape, or form) with the Scribe maintaining an old fashioned wall chart. I can even say "that should be the first data point of record :)" Once we get to electrons, the capacity of the current databases is such that I have to ensure the membership/advancement coordinator respects the privacy of parents in the unit. As one example, in my current state of Missouri (or was that Confusion ) the legal age of majority and emancipation is 21. I can give my son a checkbook, but if he writes a bad check, I'm legally accountable. Ditto data theft. As a COR, one of my duties is to minimize the risk to volunteers. Additionally, advancement management is, by the Committee Manual, a support function, not a program function. We're seeing the same challenge from two different perspectives. Neither is 100% right, neither is 100% wrong. I'll tell you what: As we migrate to later editions of TM and have PW protection over privacy fields, we may be able to get to where you are. BTW, had a great time at Scout camp. Work crews, working with state conservation folks, developed a habitat for fish near an overnight campsite out from the main camp. I was on the cook crew; we made lunch for 60. YIS

Here we sit like birds in the wilderness, birds in the wilderness, birds in the wilderness ... Here we sit like birds in the wilderness, Waiting for the Bobwhites Patrol ... Waiting for the Bobwhite Patrol... Waiting for the Bobwhite Patrol... Here we sit like birds in the wilderness, birds in the wilderness, birds in the wilderness ... Here we sit like birds in the wilderness, Waiting for the Bobwhite Patrol. To my fellow Owls, I'm off to maintenance day at the Scout Camp, I'll be back Saturday night late ... y'all keep watch over them Foxes, OK?

Let's feed in some POLICY from the Guide to Safe Scouting... Family camping: an outdoor camping experience, other than resident camping, that involves Cub Scouting, Boy Scouting, or Venturing program elements in overnight settings with two or more family members, including at least one BSA member of that family. Parents are responsible for the supervision of their children, and Youth Protection guidelines apply. I read that as saying a family camping experience requires 1 parent to 1 child. Should Mom or Dad have more than 1 child in the Pack, I believe the ratio is one parent to his/her children. Pack Overnighters These are pack-organized overnight events involving more than one family from a single pack, focused on age-appropriate Cub Scout activities and conducted at council-approved locations (councils use Park Approval Form, No. 13-508). If nonmembers (siblings) participate, the event must be structured accordingly to accommodate them. BSA health and safety and youth protection guidelines apply. In most cases, each youth participant is responsible to a specific adult. Adults giving leadership to a pack overnighter must complete Basic Adult Leader Outdoor Orientation (BALOO, No. 34162) training to properly understand the importance of program intent, youth protection guidelines, health and safety, site selection, age-appropriate activities, and sufficient adult participation. Permits for campouts shall be issued locally. Packs use Local Tour Permit Application, No. 34426. So, BALOO is a requirement, standard YP practices are a requirement, 1:1 ratio (or 1:his/her children) is required, and the Tour Permit process is required. Have fun planning this trip!!!

Understood, since I'm doing the Night Owl routine myself... John A Good Old Owl Too C-40-05 working my ticket

Douglass, Even if the challenge is training, the COR is THE PERSON who can issue tasks to a unit in the name of the Chartered Partner. In a perfect world, gentle reminders work great. On these forums, I generally propose the baseball bat solution, because it gives the reader the far option, and he can then think of shorter options. Further, we never here have the whole story on the table... it's just part of being on a message board. YIS

Barry, (Wearing my COR hat) ... in the current legal environment I am loathe to let a minor child within arms distance of other people's privacy related information. This includes Social Security Numbers, insurance information, and adult Medical information. Not that our Scouts are not Trustworthy ... but that someone who gets upset will use *any* excuse to fish a legal action against the unit, its leaders, the Chartered Partner, or the local Council. As a COR, one of my duties (or so the man said at TRAINING!) is to constantly evaluate operations against the best interests of both BSA and the Chartered Partner. Hence... a Scribe should feed to the Advancement/Membership coordinator, but not have direct access to data entry or report output. My considered thoughts. YIS