John-in-KC

let's start with httP://www.topozone.com Your local backpacking store may have some. More importantly, the USGS works with local business partners to sell true 1:24K and 1:62,500 scale quads. http://rockyweb.cr.usgs.gov/acis-bin/choosebylocation.pl?statechoice=none There used to be a USGS pamphlet on how to read a topo map, but I'm not quite sure where it is anymore. You might want to check the Boy Scout Handbook or the Orienteering MB pam, or maybe someone else will post that link for you. Have fun teaching this to your Cubs!!!

Back in the day, we were supposed to keep our status in the Arrow to "amongst us Arrowmen." Now, we have miniature sashes ... but we can't belt our sash anymore. Some Lodges have coup thongs that are to be worn at all Scouting events ... but do we really concentrate on cheerful service? We have folks advocating National software hopefully compatible with ScoutNet... but their credibility is suspect because they set a speed record at "sod surfing" of 45MPH. We also have a sworn member of the Uniform Police, who cannot keep his nose, WHEN HE IS SERVING AS A UNIT LEADER, out of other units' uniforms. Mr CalicoPenn, I'm sorry. If there be a vigil knot at all, it should only be for those YOUNG MEN who earned the Honor while serving as a youth member. Let's remember why we adults are in the Order: To provide advice and support to the YOUTH MEMBERS. BTW, Mr CalicoPenn, the shot three paragraphs above is aimed at your fellow vigil, not you.

I'm not necessarily a Luddite, but I really, really like having the info on one PC, with a backup on someone elses' machine. The man or woman entrusted with pack or troop records management has social security numbers, drivers licenses, details on the youth members, ... need I continue? We've seen in the past three years several major targets of privacy hacking. I am just not willing to accept the risk of pushing databases out to someone elses' host. I don't think BSA has had to contend with an information liability suit ... yet.

I use the text file feature of TM a lot. Bring the file into Word, a little bit of formatting, and voila! I have a product I can email the SM or CC as needed.

Two comments: First, if we adults ARE going to set an example, then we need to act under certain rules of Scouting when we go to the field: 1) First call on equipment is to the youth. If there is a need for more equipment for the adults, guess what? Adults need to pull together the bux for themselves. No bucks, no Buck Rodgers. 2) In the field, we need to operate to some degree as patrols. That means cells of 8 people doing common cooking and cleanup. We've got a lot to show these young men about "cooperate and graduate" as well as how to cook some really fantastic food in the field for not a lot of $$$. 3) In the field, adults need to show a certain level of deference to the SPL. It helps the younger men when we respect whoever the leader is, without regard to age or experience. That may well (and properly should) mean we Scouters don't get the best tent sites in the camp. First call on those should be to the youth. My thoughts here. YIS

YH, ... and here is something very close to a root level problem. You said: "It's difficult to make it fun with no help (snip)" First, you are never supposed to be on your own! 8-10 year old boys are by their very nature "on task, off task, next task", and without lots of support, it's difficult to supervise at a 8:1 ratio! That's why Scouting has positions for assistant den leaders, Den Chiefs, and even "Beth, please, can you come in this week and help with our game" for parents. Second, (edited per FScouters comments below) Den Chiefs are great in extending the capability of adult leaders!!! It's a Position of Responsibility for Star-Eagle, and older boys do like to play with younger boys. Please, though, remember that since Den Chiefs are youth program members in their own right, they cannot count for 2-deep leadership. I strongly recommend you have an early discussion with your Cubmaster, Pack Trainer, and Committee Chair about getting additional adult support. Otherwise, read through, critically and carefully, LisaBob's posts in this forum (and other forums). She's cracked a lot of the code on making the cub program work in the real world! YIS John(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Echoing Ed on Troopmaster. One caution: Ask your DE for a ScoutNet download, in hard copy, if you are moving from paper records to software, OR if you are a new Troop. WHY? ScoutNet has very specific formats, and apparently keys on names, not necessarily BSA membership numbers. You can save yourself agony by having identical data between your Troop "database of record" and ScoutNet's "database of record." Finally, once you have your database up and running, reconcile the records at least once a year. Hopefully Internet advancement will reduce this problem, but data entry in my Councils' registrar shop has at times been a creative art.

I see in a couple more recent postings a lot of HAMMER and not a lot of KISMIF! WHO IS AKELA?? The Den Leader is Akela The Den Chief is Akela Mom and Dad are Akela Leverage the fact that Mom and Dad are Akela. Do not let your Den become a branch of BSA (Baby-Sitters of America). Folks really need to critically read Lisa'Bob's approach to this. She has truly cracked the code. I do like yellow hammer's carrot, though

Duplicate post...(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Eagle90 described Camp Whitsett "back in the day"... www.whitsett.org (back in the day was 1968 or so)... and "back in the day" only does not apply to food service anymore. Where I am now, swimming is from a pool, small craft are at the lakefront.

I understand that we grown-ups like to keep playing the grand game. If there are 20 adults and the adult patrol box supports 8, say: Here's the deal: The first 8 adults who sign up get to use the equipment. After that, maybe we adults have to have a work day or two, get a tent or four bought, and build a second adult leader patrol! I agree with Beavah, though: The Troop policy is: We want you as Scouters, trained and capable of supporting an array of duties wiht our Troop.

We used to do it, then Good Turn for America made the concept of service projects a bureaucratic hassle. The Pack, Troop and Crew I'm a COR for still do a variety of service and conservation projects, but no one worries about the accounting anymore. I make sure each unit has done something at recharter time, so the IH can sign off his part of the various apps, including quality unit.

What Beavah said. Additionally, have you considered split meetings? Divide your roster into smaller chunks, each chunk meets less frequently (or just as frequently but maybe not at the primary meeting site) but when they do you get more effort out of them. There's a reason the Army and Marines operate in squads and platoons, and the Navy and Coast Guard divide the work into departments and watches: Span of leadership. B-P called it the patrol method. He approached it from a Cavalrayman's perspective. The name doesn't matter, subdividing the leadership and the numbers is what will help you and the other leaders.

If you catch her "in the act" again, very quietly pick up the cell phone and call the police. Give them a tag number, where she's departing, and ultimate destination. Letting police know she is driving minor children will get their undivided attention. Someone will make a traffic stop.

Thank you. Beavah: We are looking at some specific skillsets he has, that even his peers clearly acknowledge expertise and leadership.

Two comments: Twelve boys is well beyond the reasonable Den size. Seems to me there's a need to split this Den, so the DL can spend more time, in the meeting context, working with each Webelo directly. 8 Cubs to a Den, 8 boys to a Patrol. It's a number Baden-Powell knew well, based on proven in blood leadership in field practice. Second, and another reason for the smaller Den size: Given that "do the requirement" is a reasonable standard, is there a family reason your Webelos are missing meetings? What have your phone calls to parents yielded? Remember: Even apathy can have a deeper root cause. YIS(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Who here can give me an authoritative citation, please? The Troop within my Chartered Partner's cluster of units has a newly minted ASM. The young man recently had his 18th birthday, and is now a "transitional" Scouter (that's a term of my own, because 18-21 year olds have limits on the Scoutering assignments they can hold). We are working his adult leader training package (YP, Fast Start, NLE common core, SM specific). So... is one of those assignments an 18 year old is eligible for, by age, that of a Merit Badge Counselor? Thanks

Our Council camp is more hotel than camp for housing... Tents are on platforms, there are cots. I do not think the Reservation Director would look kindly on a Troop striking the council tents.

Looking at Kudu's list, there is only one skillset of Hillcourt's that needs fundamental change for the 21st Century: Signalling. I no of NO ONE who uses flag signalling anymore, and that includes a couple of Fourth World threat nations. The amount of traffic that passes through keyed Morse is steadily going down. It's a bandwidth management method that even in the Fourth World is moving the way of the passenger pigeon. Now, those said, are there things we can do to teach signalling to our youth? Yes. Sign languages for the deaf, which reinforces sensitivity to special needs. Ditto Braille. Being able to make a survival signal for when you're lost in the backwoods. Ditto a survival fire. Now, that is way beyond the aims and methods. I've shifted down into techniques and specific tools. Those CAN be modernized, to keep what we do near the state of the art in outdoor practice. Since the Scouting movement uses outdoorsmanship as the delivery medium, we really do have to stay near best practices going forward. Kudu, thank you for your insights. They were much more than worth the time spent reading them.

Thanks all for sharing. Ok, are we talking uniform Method in the Cub and Boy program? Yes, it is a Method, and it has good and true purposes in being a Method. In a mature, well run unit program, it provides a tool in the box for the leader, be he/she a DL or a SM/ASM. In a startup program, the unit may not be able to get there from here just yet, as we saw in a different thread. Then, imo, work to the ideal, but have a vision, set goals, and be a bit pragmatic about the how you get there. Are the uniforms as furnished by Supply Division perfect? Heck, no. I won't go there today, you all can read my views in other threads. As to Vigil-hiker, I'll say this: I commend your Pack for being well-uniformed . Now, my two cents on Cub pants FWIW, my brother turns 56 in May. He, like me, was a Cub. He had a Blue shirt, but his Pack wore blue jeans as the common pants. This was 1958 in rural America. My honest opinion? It's time and past time for Supply Division to cut to the chase, particularly on Cub uniforms, and make blue jeans the approved trousers. It's only been a fairly common practice in the field for 50 years now Of course, both he and I wore our yellow neckerchiefs from Bobcat to AOL... now, they nickel and dime units with neckerchiefs...

Some of the things I learned as a Boy Scout are now antithetical to Scouting, let alone good human health: "A tan is the sign of a healthy, active boy. No boy should ever want to have the sickly white of an indoor child." That's a paraphrase of a comment in the 1965 edition of the Boy Scout Handbook. 40 years later, we know tans lead to skin cancer with exposure down the years... Trench fires... Building a "stream chiller" (digging a hole in the stream and lining it with rocks. ... Browse beds... Cutting saplings for pioneering projects... Outdoorsmanship has advanced by orders of magnitude. Competition for use of outdoor space has advanced by orders of magnitude as the population in America grows, and as leisure time increases. Further, what young people do has changed over time!! I had a live blade as a Cub Scout (1965), try doing that now!!! IMO, the program has to leverage best practices in outdoor skills. It has to have sufficient "zing" to attract and retain young men. Want to know something? A good Scoutmaster with a well-run PLC can get to that zing!

Welcome to the campfire. Pull up a log and put a foil dinner in the coals As the Cubmaster, you have ownership over program events. This includes decisionmaking (with input and feedback from the Committee) on Pack outings. One way to help train others to follow in your path is to ask an Assistant Cubmaster to be your "point person" for outings, coordinating the program needs for each outing. Then, he/she or you can turn those needs over to the Committee and say "these are the things we need for this activity to be successful. Can you get folks to provide the various eaches?" Another way is for you to ask "Please, would you make the phone calls to plan the potluck at our Pack pool party and raingutter regatta?""Please, would you make the phone calls and ensure the pool knows we're coming and what the cost of lifeguards are?" The more you can spread the labor for an outing into bite-size chunks, the more will share in the labor, and the more will have a degree of ownership over the results. BTW, I can make a case for this being on both the program (CM) and the support (CC) sides of the Pack (This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Our Lodge uses a coup necklace with a wooden arrow... blank for Ordeal, the two stripes of the Brotherhood, and... well you get the point. On the subject of Uniform Police: There are rare times when a Unit Commissioner should talk directly with a Scout. It's called a Uniform Inspection, and ideally the SM invited the UC. Outside of a scheculed inspection, Heaven Help a UC if they correct a Scout directly. As a COR, I will ensure they are never again welcome in a unit of my Chartered Partner. Yes, a UC can and should make a comment to the Scoutmaster or the CC. They have no business, unless we specifically invited them for an inspection, to be commenting directly to the youth of the program.

Chapters should be running their own election teams at a bare minimum. Chapters should also have some "fun" things to do. There is nothing that says a chapter activity cannot be an evening bowling, a visit to a local comedy club, or a service project. Our chapter has done all these. It comes down to how much imagination the chapter chief and the chapter adviser have One way to encourage Chapter meeting attendance is for the Chapter Chief to give feedback to Scoutmasters on whether OATRs are attending, and thus meeting the duties of their POR.

Thank you all for the feedback Allow me to clarify. Yes, I live in a suburban, bordering rural, district. There are different challenges for urban as well as rural districts. In our neck of the woods, Boy Scout troops typically meet on Monday or Tuesday nights, Venturing Crews on Sunday or Tuesday nights, and Cub Scout Packs on 2d-4th Thursdays of the month. Our District RT is first Thursday. Yes, the Commissioner's Service sponsors RT. Our District has a Cub RT COmmish, a Boy RT COmmish, and a Venturing RT Commish. Each has a staff, Cub and Boy being larger than Venturing. I do physical arrangements in support of all 3 programs. We also have made RT night "District Unit Service Night." The District Committee Operating Committees below have activities: - Advancement: Eagle Project Review, MB Counselor Training. - Training: NLE Common Core; position specific sign-ups. - Activities: Sponsorship of various events, from Day Camp to Camporee. GTFA advocacy. - Camping: OA Chapter meeting. - Membership and Relationships: Membership service table (we'll drive to Council for you); RED Team display and sign-ups. - Commissioners and Professional Service: Need to bend the DE's ear? He's there! - RT staff: Unit mailboxes for STUFF from Council and various activity sponsors. Typically, I set seats for 80 in the Cub plenary session, Boy Scout headcount runs 125, and there are 15-20 Venturers and Venturing Scouters on hand. Roundtable is not "just for the Scoutmaster and the Chairman." It is a place to learn and grow, to touch base (yes, Lisa, I've leveraged the network!), to prep the program for the coming months, and in our District, "one stop unit service." My Districts' RT website, run privately, is: http://www.kaiserklan.com/roundtable/ The webmaster does it as a huge labor of love. So, if I'm looking for an external person to counsel a young man in a merit badge, I AM going to network among Scouters I know, and one of the places I know Scouters from is Roundtable. YIS John A Good Old Owl Too