John-in-KC

Lisa, Lest we forget, IIRC the port of Long Beach, CA is run by the a "firm" wholly owned in the People's Republic of China. I agree with all you say. For others: He is The President of The United States of America. The last time I checked, there was not a Democratic United States of America and a Republican United States of America. We are a UNION. We can disagree, and have plenty of conversation. We are a UNION. Backpacker: If you truly believe President Bush is as far outside the law as you state in your posts, then I trust you are advocating your Congresscritter to introduce a Bill of Impeachment into the House.

Three comments: First, in the game "battle of the budget" I honestly believe three agencies need to be funded to their requirements: Coast Guard. US Customs Service FEMA Second, I buy into Lisa's political analysis of what happened. This is the kind of decision you consult on with the leadership on both sides in the Congress, as well as the: - H/S Foreign Relations Committee - H/S Commerce Committee - H/S Intelligence Committee. The current political polarization in the "DC Bubble" is the very antithesis of "cooperate and graduate." I see in in Democratic/Republican relationships, as well as Executive/Legislative relationships. Last, loyalty is a virtue ... it's the second point of the Scout law. TOO MUCH loyalty is not necessarily a good thing: It seems to me that too many career staffers in the Executive branch are being told to "just say yes."

Lisa, Active listening and feedback. Are they or are they not gifts? On actual political events, I'm just not sure. ... The Scouting movement has a reputation of God, Country, and Family. (I was going to say Baseball, Hot Dogs, Apple Pie and Chevrolet ). In some ways, I want all our politicians to buy into God, Country, and Family. I want to send Scouts to just about any political event, in uniform, in part to learn and in part to show the values represented by Scouing. Unfortunately, what I perceive as your POV feels equally valid. The cynical part of me says too many politicians no longer represent God, Country and Family, and participating in the event is mere windowdressing for them, besmudging Scouting as well as the Pack, Troop, Crew, or Ship. At the end of the day, it comes down to the individual unit leader making a call: Is the event worthy of Scouting, does it add value to the young men in the unit, and are the young men being taken away from school or sleep time for the event (this last question I hope the leader answers with a resounding NO)...? Thanks for your feedback! John

As I recall, there is guidance either in the Uniform book or Requirements on how to correctly wear palms beyond 1st Silver. As far as the advancement program goes, the Scout can earn palms until he's within 3 months of his eighteenth birthday ... then he runs out of youth time!

I have one edit to my earlier post: The age appropriate curriculum for a Fifth Grader is God and Family!!! I apologize for not looking before I hit the send key. John

Lisa, Yes, Ma'am, over the RIGHT shoulder, just like CP said! Two comments: If your family tends to the tall side later on, go ahead and get him the tall boys sash. One benefit is it has more space for more badges. If you offset the first row of badges from the top crease by about one MB diameter, you'll find they fall in such a way as they're easily seen by others. As I write this, I have my almost 40 year old MB sash on my puter desk. Make sure you or your son keep this when his Scouting time is done, it's a treasured memento of places been and adventures had!!!(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

CONGRATULATIONS!!!! Mine cannot be done before this summer, since two of my ticket items involve serving as a volunteer commissioner at Scout Camps in our Council. That said, it will be done! Hoot Hoot!!! John A Good Old Owl Too

Many comments here: For all: The Pledge of Allegiance is actually the weakest of the five Oaths or pledges available to Nationals and Citizens of the United States. The other oaths are: The Oath of Office of the President of the United States ... the ONLY one in the Constitution. The Oath of Office for Officers of the United States ... in the Armed Forces, in the Congress, in the Courts, and in the Civil Service. "I do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States, against all enemies foreign and domestic, that I take this obligation freely, without mental reservation or purpose of evasion, and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter SO HELP ME GOD." The Oath of Enlistment for Soldiers of the Armed Forces, which unlike the officers oath, also binds them to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. The Oath of Naturalization. Only then do we get down to the Pledge of Allegiance. I tend to drop requests for a constitutional amendment on the Pledge in my spam box for just that reason: It's weak and wimpy. For Wyomingi: Yup. Gotta agree with you. BTW, that same task should also apply to a plethora of radio commentators, from Franken to Hannity (the final motion in setting deflection on an artillery piece is ALWAYS to the RIGHT!) For LisaBob and John Daigler: I would hope that my dear junior senator from the great state of Missouri took time to talk to the Scouts in a small group! Young men listen, and it hits home with them! I do know that I would gladly line up my Crew and Troop in uniforms to meet the Honorable Mr Graves (R-6th, MO), Eagle Scout and Runner in the Tribe of Mic-O-Say, and the Honorable Mr. Skelton (D-4th, MO)(Eagle Scout and Sagamore in the Tribe of Mic-O-Say). These men have both shown their dedication to Scouting as well as the Nation! John A Good Old Owl Too

Rkfrance, Excellent description. Too bad that of the four units I serve: - One has yet to be assigned a UC, though it's 4 months old. - The UC to the Pack is invisible; he comes once a year to eat a free B/G banquet. - The UC to the Troop is nearly invisible. - NOBODY paid the Scouting "annual call" on my IH at the beginning of recharter season (look at the BSA recharter envelope!). Now, if Unit Commissioners would walk the walk... Bitterly, John a COR

Trevorum, in this thread, and SWScouter, in the related thread, both hit a key point: Friendliness and Cheerfulness; two elements of the Scout Law. If the Cubs see this in action routinely, be it at Webelos Woods, a pin college, District Camporee, Day Camp, or whatever, they will gravitate towards those Boy Scouts. So I'll add that to my list: Service to the Pack by the Troop has to be done willingly, within the true spirit of the Scout Oath and Law. Elsewise, there will not be a relationship...

Beavah and KenK both have part of the answer here: - If the patrol/troop is camping on somewhat developed property (state park for example) and greywater drainage is available, then follow full sanitary procedures. - If the patrol/troop is backpacking/horseback riding/canoeing in the backcountry, and greywater drainage isn't available, OR, patrol/troop is training for backcountry expedition, then follow LNT sanitary procedures. FWIW: Back in the day, Second Class cooking requirements included cooking without pots/pans. Amazing things can be done with a long skewer and aluminum foil, and foil CAN be packed out of the backcountry.

OK, The first question is HOW MUCH MONEY? (and that's not for broadcast here). If it's hundreds or thousands of dollars, then you start getting more serious. If, OTOH, it's $10-$50, is it really worth the time and labor? Next, contact your Chartered Organization. The specific contact person is your COR. Your unit Treasury is their property. Document the debt, and document the attempts you've made to request he make good on the debt. BTW, the COR should take care of informing the Council. Next, the COR may send out on his authority, or may ask the Committee to send out a certified letter, return receipt. Be courteous, but ask the former leader to help the unit by repaying the debt. If the letter comes back "returned to sender" then you know why the former leader hasn't called back; he's left town. Beyond that, it's the Chartered Partner's call on whether or not to pursue more drastic attempts to regain the money. Good luck.

Beavah, Yes, short of having a professional on site to say: "Don't do that", you're right ... people do tend to forget there are things they are expected to do as a condition of membership in Scouting. Depending on the State, you may also be right that the Chartered Partner has a statutory obligation to report. Finally, I see the online version has changed the wording from mandatory to "denotes BSA rules and policies." I'm sure glad the kids get to have lots of fun with this grand game.

12 hours out is tight for a cancellation for anything short of bad weather. That said, we don't know circumstances, Mr/Ms ASM1, and you've not told us. - Weather? - Injuries? - Cars broken down? - Young men GROUNDED (it happens, even with 16 year olds) BTW, this is a reason for you to attend Wood Badge: ALWAYS!!! have a Plan B! I agree with both scoutldr and Eamonn here ...

CalicoPenn, That is why BSA carries primary liability insurance protecting the Chartered Partner, that IF something happens, the chartered partner is protected from direct exposure. That is why WE, as LEADERS, are charged to make use of the trip planning tools and the TOUR PERMIT process given us by the BSA. That is why the use of a handgun is forbidden by G2SS to members of the Boy Scouting program. There is a point where the Scoutmaster has to make a tough call on bullying and have a talk with his SE. To quote G2SS: http://www.scouting.org/nav/enter.jsp?s=ba Member Responsibilities All members of the Boy Scouts of America are expected to conduct themselves in accordance with the principles set forth in the Scout Oath and Law. Physical violence, hazing, bullying, theft, verbal insults, and drugs and alcohol have no place in the Scouting program and may result in the revocation of a Scout's membership in the unit. If confronted by threats of violence or other forms of bullying from other youth members, Scouts should seek help from their unit leaders or parents. As always, MANDATORY POLICY of BSA is in boldface. Continuing, let's look at adult responsibilities: "Unit Responsibilities "Adult leaders of Scouting units are responsible for monitoring the behavior of youth members and interceding when necessary. Parents of youth members who misbehave should be informed and asked for assistance in dealing with it. "The BSA does not permit the use of corporal punishment by unit leaders when disciplining youth members. "The unit committee should review repetitive or serious incidents of misbehavior in consultation with the parents of the child to determine a course of corrective action including possible revocation of the youth's membership in the unit. "If problem behavior persists, units may revoke a Scout's membership in that unit. When a unit revokes a Scout's membership, it should promptly notify the council of the action. "The unit should inform the Scout executive about all incidents that result in a physical injury or involve allegations of sexual misconduct by a youth member with another youth member." Again, lots of mandatory ground here. Like Mr Hereajo, I am a COR. If he stays in that position, I recommend to him to cast a wide net on his own training. He has access to professional staff, the District Committee, and the Commissioner service for advice, feedback, and input. Looking back at his original question, if he finds unit policy out of line with BSA policy or his own chartered partner's policy, that is the moment to wave the flag, even when the victim is his own youth. To those who are on unit committees, this incident is a case study in why Committeemembers need training as well, to include NLE common core and the Troop Committee Challenge.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Speaking as a COR, You had better believe there is competition for graduating Cubs. Any feeder relationship IS ONLY AS GOOD AS THE SUPPORT THE TROOP GIVES TO THE PACK: - Den Chiefs. - J-staff at Cub Day Camps - Youth staff at Council Webelos Resident Camp - Programs to assist the Cub advancement program (ie, bike riding days to help with Sports and Athletics cycling or Webelos pin colleges). I do not believe it unreasonable for the Troop of a feeding relationship to detail an ASM whose sole job in Scouting is: How does Troop 1 support Pack 1.

Adding to the list: Nixon: The One (Nixon's the one, da.da.da.da...)

Firecrafter, If the cards themselves were formatted, printed records from a database, then I sincerely hope your Council dumps the database to a CD-ROM and takes it back to the Service Center after the season. Assuming the above is true, it's back to my earlier recommendation: Call your Council. Ask if they have the source records from last summer. If they do, get a copy. Then Scout has a completed MB. If they do not, it's Orwellian, but the record does not exist, it never existed. There's another SM conference and lesson: Life isn't fair, sometimes you have to deal with that fact. (Personally, I really do hope the records are available. Being the heavy in a "life isn't fair" conversation just is not fun).

A Scouter I know was a licensed child pyschologist; he has sponsored District-wide unit JLT weekends for several years. It was a major project of his Wood Badge ticket. I asked him to compare the two curricula. He had already done this, working with his Council Commissioner. SHORT VERSION??? He has rejected the new package. He assesses the training product of unit JLT as superior, thus he will continue to use Unit JLT. FScouter, you're in good company.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Each of the "troop issued" patrol flags had a color on weekend one. FWIW, our Owl flag was green. Rest assured our patrol flag had absolutely no resemblance to the "troop issued" flag on weekend two. John A Good Old Owl Too C-40-05(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Recommend you have a talk with your Reservation Director for the camp you attended. "Does the (name of) Council maintain the Counselor record books after the camp season?" If the answer is yes, then: 1) Boys name 2) Camp session 3) MB in question ... and there is a record of completion. Then, it's a matter of cutting an advancement report off the xeroxed page. Of course, a Scoutmaster Conference about "helpful" and "to help other people at all times" (how are you being helpful when others have to find your MB info? How are you helping other people when you have to have them helping you? There's a balance between help for need and help as a "crutch) might be in order... If not, then it's sorta Orwellian... the records don't exist, why don't we hook you up with Mr or Mrs X (our local counselors for N MB) and you knock out the work and get it redone? Life's not fair, deal with it. FWIW, my Council hands the completed MB cards to the Camp Scoutmaster as part of outprocessing, and they get to the youth to review the meeting after the unit gets home.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

While I continue to counsel doing things right... Doing things right does mean reporting allegations of abuse to the local Scout Executive. Our professionals have obligations to report to authorities and initiate the needed investigations. I apologize to all, including klcbaskets as the Mom. When I made my first post, I should have been saying go to Scout Executive, period.

I'm too close to this to think about it at a policy level. My son is working his Eagle Leadership Service Project as I write this, in fact, tonight he takes his team to the local VA Hospital for their first concert with them. He enjoys being in the Crew because that's where his classmates are. He enjoys the activites Venturing permits that are either "shades of gray" or disallowed by G2SS for Boy Scouts. Even so, he's glad to be on staff at Scout Camp all this coming summer. What matters to me is the young man who will soon take his station in life: He'll be 18 in 15 months, and he'll be a great young man ready to be part of the community. Scouting was a key part of that. The reward is more than worth the labor.

Not enough information, but having investigated my share of things and activities in a few days in the Army, I counsel ... DELIBERATENESS. Take the time to do this right. Get all the facts before making a decision. PROTECT ALL INTERESTS. The unit, the Chartered Partner, the other boys in the unit, and the accused offender all matter. DO YOUR BEST. The Cub motto actually applies here, and it's all hereajo and his committee can do at the end of the day.

Sunsetshadow, welcome to the forums. Many folks here know "feedback is a gift", and your District Training Committee should be listening to your needs. Ed, you've hit a problem of Boy Scout training: Many people in working life now understand what quality training classes look like. Those people, more than a few of whom are our new leaders, aren't going to accept second best. They are investing their time for the sake of their children. They or their units are investing money. They will not settle for second best. I think much of OGE's comments have merit at the first reaction level. Maybe BSA should look into more stuff going online, including even migrating some of NLE common core.