John-in-KC

nldsscout, Respectfully agree to disagree with you. Yes, SM is the program officer of the unit. He is accountable to the Committee and the Chartered Partner. He is the guy who advises the PLC and helps guide them to learn how to make good decisions. Without dodging his responsibility one iota, why shouldn't he allow the PLC to go through a decisionmaking process? Are we not here to Develop these young men as leaders and teach them ideals (bell rings in background, WB ticket idea)... If they make a good call, he can carry it forward as though it was his own. ICS, John

Fred You make me very glad I rolled Eastward from the Peeple's Republik of Kalifornia in 1978, and in general have not looked back. All: Two comments: This is a local to Southern California alternative newspaper. Consider the source. (Even I, a Native Son of the Golden West who now talks of the PRK must do so). Second, Eagle Scout Victor Cass, a graduate of Troop 4 Pasadena (one of the oldest troops in all Southern California) wrote an excellent counterpoint.

While OGE's idea has merit, the facts of the matter are: Registered Boy Scout Under Age 21 Minimum First Class while a youth program member 15 days and nights of camping, of which there is a LT camp component. The only option I see is qualified 18-20 year old women ASMs. They are in the age where membership is voted by the youth. They are also above the age where rank can be earned, so the camping requirement is the only one out there. Frankly, though, I agree with OGE on ages/stages. At the local HS, student council, band executive council, and class leadership are dominated by young women. Boys need places where they can assert leadership and management skills. Eventually, young men have to leave the primary leadership roles in Troops to others coming up.

Lisa, Since we're moving into the realm of special needs, are the anxiety attacks something that is RELATIVELY PERMANENT? If it is, then Council (professional and volunteer staff) will work with the family to find solutions. If this is something that will pass, then there is less wiggle room. I like the idea of a 1/1 older buddy to help teach him. I think Mom needs an immediate education in proper outdoor equipment. It's hard to have fun when you're up from having frozen all night long, or having been wet and cold all night long when others are dry and warm. Where is Dad in all this? Is this a collateral issue to the anxiety? Is there something that he is already isolated from adult association, and removing Mom is cutting anchor chains? Finally, Boy Scouts is not the be all/end all youth program. Not every young man is a fit.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Having talked with my Chapter Adviser (and also Dad of current Lodge Chief and head driver for election teams), there is not a lot of guidance here. OA Election support materials for E-teams say nothing about the meaning of "camping." Thinking about it a little more, probably the right thing to do is have the PLC visit this issue and recommend a position the SM can carry to the Committee and COR for final action. No matter how the PLC decided, if they crafted their arguments persuasively, I'd be inclined as a Scouter to let them make the call. Key point: Persuasive argument: Doesn't that sorta sound like it supports Ideals and Leadership Development methods? ICS...

What Eaglebeader said. Now, has the Chartered Partner Executive Officer and COR visited the SE and DE yet? Have those two said to the DE and SE "We believe you are not fulfilling your end of the Charter Agreement; we intend to drop our Charter in your Council and move to XYZ Council?" yet? As fotoscout said, you'll give them an opportunity to answer the mail on quality of support. Of course, which of the following tenets of the Charter Agreement is the Council not honoring? Respect the aims and objectives of the organization and offer the resources of Scouting of help in meeting those objectives. Provide year-round training, service, and support to the organization and its unit (s). Provide training and support for the chartered organization representative as the primary communication link between the organization and the B.S.A. Provide techniques and methods for selecting quality unit leaders and then share in the approval of those leaders. (A council representative must sign all leader applications.) Provide primary general liability insurance to cover the chartered organization, its board, officers, chartered organization representatives and employees against all personal liability judgments. The insurance includes attorney's fees and court costs as well as any judgment brought against the individual or organization. Unit leaders are covered in excess of any personal coverage they might have, or, if there is no personal coverage, the B.S.A. insurance immediately picks them up on a primary basis. Provide camping facilities, service center, and full-time professional staff to assist the organization in every way possible. To assist the chartered organization with a religious affiliation in the promotion of the religious emblems program. To join with the chartered organization in promoting and encouraging the practice of the daily good turn as a part of basic citizenship training. To work with the chartered organization in extending the Scouting opportunity to the greatest possible number of youth and families. John(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

In my Troop, we interpret this as either: 1) Under the stars OR 2) In a tent Look at the BSA requirements for rank advancement. They imply what Scouting means by camping, imo(empahsis on the mo). I'm NOT saying USS North Carolina, SAC Museum, Cosmosphere, or the area church cabin camp do not provide meaningful opportunities to units. They just are not camping. That's my interpretation. I just talked with a former vice-chief of our lodge, and his Dad, who is a chapter adviser, will get back with me at some point. I'll post more then.

Lisa, What ScoutNut said, especially the questions of maturity involved in sending him back to the Pack as a Den Chief. One other thought: Even though Mom is an active Scouter, it might be a good thing if she is out of sight at Troop meetings. It might be better for sons' growth and development if she is not where he can use her as a crutch. Even if the Troop Committee meets concurrently with the Troop, there are places they can be ... out of sight and hopefully out of mind from the youth. Next, boy run does not mean "boys run roughshod." This young man needs to get out into the field and start learning. The very experience will help him learn independence.

Boy Scout Requirements (33215B), 2006 edition: All the below is on Page 5: "Merit badges, badges of rank, and Ealge Palms are for boys who are registered Boy Scouts or Varsity Scouts. Any registered Boy Scout or Varsity Scout may earn these awards until his 18th birthday. Any Venturer who achieved the First Class rank as a Boy Scout or Varsity Scout may continue working for the Star,Life and Eagle ranks and Eagle Palms while registered as a Venturer up to his 18th birthday."(underlined emphasis added) Rank Advancement for Venturers "Any male Venturer who has achieved the First Class rnak as a Boy Scout in a troop or Varsity Scout in a team may continue advancement toward the Star, Lfie, and Eagle Scout ranks up to his 18th birthday. He must meet the requirements as prescribed in the official Boy Scout Handbook and the current Boy Scout Requirements book. The Venturer may fulfill leadership requirements by serving as president, vice president, secretary, or treasurer of his crew, or as boatswain, boatswain's mate, yeoman, purser, or storekeeper of his ship. "The Scoutmaster conference will be conducted by the Advisor or Skipper. As the Venturer meets requirements for the Star and Life ranks, a board of review will be conducted by the crew or ship committee. the Eagle board of rewivew should follow the procedures established by the local council." Hope the BSA policy helps (This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Mr CNYScouter... Hands-on access to a pool of potential recruits, in the target age for advertising and enlistments? Heck, yes, the Naval Reserve will be DELIGHTED to have clean-cut, enlistment-eligible teens in the building. Expect those who work with the youth to be talking about opportunities in the US Armed Forces. I know the Army Reserve would!

Scoutldr said an awful lot in that post There are two other people you need to contact in regard to unit finances: Your Chartered Partner's Executive Officer (possibly the Pastor or Parish President, maybe chairperson of Board of Youth), and your Chartered Organization Representative. One reason you need them is that your books need to support their books, as the IRS can check all organizations sponsored by the CP.

Sue, Enjoy. John

Ours uses FOS family collections only. Date is from when the unit raises their FOS goal to Dec 31 annually. Goal is $135 x #Scouts on charter x 0.25.

Lest we forget... Be it a ship, be it a crew, it's youth led, not boy run. The implications of the method are even greater responsibility to the members and the Coed option!!!

I really like MaScout's idea. Now, keeping with the concept that Venturers should have an ownership stake in the program, I think it reasonable that your officers should be the ones to lock this into Crew/Ship policy.

Madam Eager Beaver, Let me guess. You've been recruited as a TG for the next cycle? That said, to all, if you have the chance, take WB. Your Scouting network will grow. As adults, we need relationships and reinforcement almost as much as the youth of our programs. Besides, it's FUN! YIS John A Good Old Owl Too C-40-05

Agreeing with LH, but some additional comments: 2) Perhaps the right moment for this young man to join is right after the camp season. At the same time, in your role as Advisor/Skipper, helping the organizing youth determine the appropriate interval between meetings is one of your principal tasks. The varsity sports question is also one of scheduling. If the best answer is "a morning and an afternoon" once a month, especially in football season, then hopefully the youth will see or be influenced on their way to a good schedule. My thoughts.

Our school district prohibited ALL backpack mail some years ago. Doesn't matter ... scouting, athletics, businesses, if it's not from the District, it doesn't go home with the child.

I was at Council Saturday. We have a BSA Supply Corporation Scout Shop. Yes, BSA has gone offshore. Why? US Firms wanted large price increases at the manufacturer to wholesale level. Quality (reject rate and return rate) had hit target to renegotiate vendor contracts. According to her, price is more important, particularly to non-Scouter parents, than quality.

Had lunch this past OA induction weekend with a member of the Council Executive Staff. ANYONE who is primary registered outside of a Pack, Troop, Team or Crew (this includes Commissioners, District/Council Committee, non-affiliated MB Counselors, ad infinitum) must do a new Leader Application every year, including references, as part of the membership process. He said if I really wanted to know, the Field Director could point me to the exact National rules on this. I didn't really want to know His word is good enough. In our Council, background checks are about every two years for folks above unit level. It's a YP thing HTH YIS

Hopefully your TG is as good as mine, and you'll have most of your ticket written before Weekend II. Have fun with your patrol mates on the project! John A Good Old Owl Too C-40-05

Congratulations!!! John A Good Old Owl Too C-40-05 Working my Ticket

My book dates from 1970...

Do any of us know of a lesson plan set to support Weather MB being taught down at Camp? Googling gave me a dry hole. If you do, please PM me. I'm helping a friend who will be giving commisisoner support to a Conservation Lodge at another reservation I also strongly believe in not reinventing the wheel. YIS(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

The letter you described needs to be over the Chartered Partner Executive Officer's and the COR's signatures, not the SM/CC. Why? The CP is the "owner of record" of the unit, and the Chartered Partner is the voting member of the Council.