John-in-KC

First, Ma, run, do not walk, to your telephone or computer. Contact your District Advancement Chair before the sun sets!!! Ask him to contact the Council Advancement Chair You can stop this Scout from going forward to an Eagle BOR. Lay out your reasons clearly and succinctly. His remorse, and his giving back the money, needs to go on the table as well. The Advancement Chairs are the people who will work any appeals from your level. Getting them informed, and having them assist you in cleaning up this mess is a win for you and Scouting. Next, the SM has direct input into the BOR ... it's called the Scoutmaster evaluation. If he says "I cannot recommend this Scout, he has demonstrated himself not trustworthy...." it's going to go a long way to an Eagle BOR not happening. A Board of Review can happen at any time. It is not simply for advancement. One way to get this young man's attention is to begin the BOR, but clearly state "we are here to consider your trustworthiness as a Scout. Your candidacy to Eagle is not on the table at this time." There are three other people who need to be brought into this sad loop: - First, the unit commissioner, so when Mom/Dad complain to the DC or the DE, the issue is already on the table. - The other two are the Chartered Partner Executive Officer and the COR. You do not need the parents making a run around the SM/CC there either. Edited to reflect a later post from Ma...(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Thank those who are currently serving for what they are doing!!! Thanks those who are Veterans for what they did!!! Honor those who fell ... for Memorial Day is to remember their sacrifice for us... John

This weekend, amidst all of whatever you do, take time out to reflect on 230 years and more of United States History... Our Revolution The Barbary Coast campaigns The War of 1812 The Mexican War... ... and on up to Operation Desert Storm Operation Enduring Freedom and Operation Iraqi Freedom Young men and women, wearing our Nation's uniform, fighting for their buddies in the squad, their platoons, their regiments, their Services, and their Nation, have paid the highest price to keep our great Nation free. Please, remember the fallen warriors, be they killed on the battlefield, died in the hospital, or lived a full life after the war and passed away gently. If you get a chance, remember to thank a veteran or a Soldier, Sailor, Airman Marine, or Coast Guardsman serving too! Thank you.

Having been an absolute pedant about uniforms on active and reserve service (the lieutenants of the battalion bet beers over who would have the spit-shiniest boots on Friday commander's inspection ... I often won the bet) I find the debate over uniform policing to be silly. The last time I checked the book, uniform was a METHOD ... uniform perfection was not. If you believe in the Patrol method, and in the Leadership Development method of Scouting, and if you are properly Youth Protection trained, you discuss any uniforming issues with the adult leadership of a Pack, Troop or Crew. The unit leadership was approved by and is known to the Chartered Partner. The CP has bought into them delivering and supporting the program to the Scouts. They did not buy into you, a Third Party ... unless you were invited to the function. Do I work very hard to wear a correct and complete uniform, as an example to our young people? Sure do. Do I have differences from the uniform guide on my uniform? Sure do. On my Venturing COR shirt, I wear the lodge flap of my youth Ordeal lodge ... it was merged out of existence 33 years ago. It's a touchstone though, to why I serve as a Scouter. On my Boy Scout RT staff shirt, do I wear the numerals of my Troop? Sure do. My primary registration is as COR for my chartered partner. My service to RT is a secondary registration. It's also a clear demonstration of my loyalty to my Chartered Partner ... whom I represent to Scouting ... and whom I represent Scouting to. Have a good Memorial Day weekend. Take a moment to remember the fallen heroes from 231 years of US history!

Just to give the "Absolute Inspectors of all things absolutely by the manual" high blood pressure and conniption fits: Certain Districts in the Heart of America Council award red,white, and blue epaulet tabs to Scouts/Venturers who form the color guards for three Rountable opening ceremonies. Those epaulets are permanent within the youth program (once you earn them, you can wear them until you age out of Venturing, if you stay in ...) The Staff at HOAC Scout Camps get special staff tabs for their epaulets. Once awarded they may be worn at the Scout/Scouter's discretion, in and out of season!

One of the things we sadly have to remember is that human interrelationships enter in to all of this. When person X holds a grudge at person Y, it doesn't matter if that grudge came from Scouting, the golf course, the marina, or work. It's in place, and it impacts ... often to the negative. Ditto the "I've done it my way for N years, and will keep doing it my way." I think one of the reasons we're here is to share the bumps in the road with each other, to find a way to lower them a tad, and then to continue ... yes... having FUN. Have a good Memorial Day, one and all. Please take a moment to remember why we have Memorial Day after all.

The fact of the matter is the young people we engage in Venturing are often the very ones who are active in sports, debate, church youth, drama, band, ad infinitum. By the time you overlay the calendars, there won't be many dates left. Leverage them for all you have. At the same time, CURRICULUM TRUMPS SCOUTING. If a youth is being graded at school in a subject, Scouting takes the back seat. That goes right back to the 7th point of the Scout Law. One sad fact of the matter is that if you are recruiting from two area high schools, you probably will have conflicts, just because School A is home while School B is away on any given game night. As far as missing items, do you have your Chartered Partner's annual calendar? When do they want some service from the youth? Do you have your local marina's calendar?

scoutldr, Most of these young men are also chartered as ASMs (adult side) in their Troops... Being a YOUTH PROGRAM member in Venturing allows them a certain level of flexibility, particularly when you talk about housing arrangements ...

One year the Troop of my youth broke away from the Council HA trail (then San Fernando Valley, now Western LA Council's Silver Knapsack). Instead, we went on a weeklong segment of the John Muir Trail. We didn't do this because we thought we could do a better job than the Camp Whitsett (base camp) staff; we did it because most of us had hiked the Silver Knapsack twice. Even in planning a backpacking trip, with an excellent field guide (Starr's Guide is still the best there is for trail study), with excellent ration planning support (Rich-Moor corporate HQ was five miles from our troop meeting site), with excellent opportunities for training hikes (try doing the Santa Monica Mountains sometime) there was still much more to do than when we had followed the Council path. As all have said, it takes high energy and high committment from youth leadership and all the adults, or its not what going to be the "instant idyllic camp" you thought it would be.

Absolutely, positively for him YP and FS. Family activities are great ... encourage him to have picnics, participate in the 4th of July, have fun with a sport ... don't just earn a belt loop, maybe go for a pin ... that will take more effort. If one of the area's Pow-Wows publishes a program book or CD, get that for him; chock full of ideas.

Speaking as a COR, If I hear of a UC in one of the units of my Chartered Partner "enforcing" BSA uniform policy, THEN ... the DC will be asked to furnish a replacement Unit Commissioner. I will also ask the IH to formally bar said UC from our facilities. Encourage yes, set an example, yes. Support a "big show" inspection when asked by the unit, yes. ENFORCE? Absolutely not. The Chartered Partner owns the unit, not the Commissioner's Service.

Eamonn, Like you I sent a PM to our fellow Scouter. I've found his input and feedback extremely useful. At the same time, a hard lesson I learned a few years back: Each of us has only so much emotional energy. Using that energy up leads to very bad things. Kahuna, and only Kahuna, is responsibile to manage his emotional energy. If this forum is a net drain to him, he owes it to himself to absent himself from here. That's a lesson we can all take away.

Fair enough, thanks. The other part of my question (how do you reach downard to the lower end of the Venturing age bracket) is still in play, though...

My question: Is APO still have a relationship to BSA, or was that severed some years back? Looking at the APO website, they are now tied off to Camp Fire, not BSA. Since they are headquartered down the road in Independence, MO, I will ask someone from my local council office. BTW, how do you propose to hit the lower end of the ageline (14-16 year old members)?

I know a Crew chartered within a high school band. Their superactivity is a trip to Europe for the band. I know a Crew that is a Scouting youth program home for an OA Lodge's LEC. I have heard of a Crew, sponsored in a church, that is going to Mexico on a missions support trip (ie, dig the waterline) The leader considering forming a crew may have some preconceived ideas as he makes preparation. When he/she forms the Crew, one of the first questions of the youth really should be "What road do you want to travel?"

I found some info over at usscouts.org. There was a comment in the overall merit badges section... that a new merit badge costs about $75,000 to start up. What I saw implied by the comment was ... BSA will be more favorable to a new badge if money to start it up comes with it. At the same time, there was another comment that the National Advancement Committee had set a goal of keeping 120 or so merit badges in the inventory. In other words, at the moment, we are talking a zero-sum game. One comes in, one will go out.

Oh quit whining! On a more serious (and respectful) note: As a youth member (1968-72 or so, thereafter in an Explorer Post where we wore neckties) I turned my collar in every week when in long sleeves. I had the collarless short sleeve, so... As an adult, I turn my collar under still. It's not worth the $$$ to have the shirt retailored sans collar.

OGE, Hey, you're a Mod here, if you think we get to contentious, you can always move this to Issues and Politics At least we're talking about something that has a gut-check value (vice our forays into sod surfing ) At the end of the day, if the ceremony is done with quiet dignity and respect for that which is America, then these young men we're training have done well.

Trev, I have to agree with EagleinKY. The alternative procedures are pretty straightforward in BSA Advancement. I recommend a re-visit, with a copy of Requirements both of you are working through. Keep on with asking the tough questions. You're serving your youth, well and truly

Friends, Am seeking input from fellow counselors for Citizenship in the Nation. I'm revising my own materials to support my counseling. Requirement 2 is the "Go and do" requirement. You can read it in BSA requirements, at usscouts, or at meritbadge.com if you've not updated recently. It's the OLD requirement 4, but with TWO activities, not one. Here's my question. Using no more, no less as the standard, how do YOU interpret the options offered in 2a-2c? - In other words, would you accept a Scout (in my case in the KC metro area) who does 2b twice by visiting the Kansas Capitol in Topeka and the Missouri Capitol in Jeff City. In your judgment, has the Scout answered the mail (assuming the discussions happen)? - Ditto your thoughts on 2d (can a Scout research two different National Monuments to answer the mail for requirement 2)? FWIW, in my area I have several Federal installations (Harry S Truman Presidentail Library in Independence, Fort Leavenworth NMT 90 minutes away for 90% of Scouts in my Council, and several spots on the National Register of Historic Places). Dwight D Eisenhower Presidential Library and Museum is 2 hours away, Fort Riley is 90 minutes. I appreciate your considered thoughts in advance Thank you all

LH, All I can tell you is, after having talked with Dad (who is right now at his 64th anniversary of captivity/61st anniversary of liberation convention of the American Defenders of Bataan and Corregidor), is he was taught this by truly "Old Army" NCOs ... his regimental Sergeant Major had been a buck sergeant for WWI. The meat of the idea is that though the cloth is no longer the Flag, it was a Flag, and each piece still merits respect.

Option 1: Encourage your Council to adopt the system Ed Mori suggested!! Option 2: There comes a point where using this particular camp just is not worth the hassle any longer. Committee issues planning guidance to the PLC: Find other places. Please don't tell me this is the only available site for weekend camping in the area. There's not a farm, church camp, or state park that would not fill the bill??? Option 3: Do nothing and put up with it.

CP, Thanks. OK, the WB Staff can have their Parlour Scouts red berets, and they can conduct a legitimate uniform inspection. As for me, pass a boonie hat please. DING DONG THE BERET IS DEAD ... THE BERET IS DEAD ... THE BERET IS DEAD ...

The YOUTH PROGRAM OF THE ORDER OF THE ARROW STRETCHES TO THE 21ST BIRTHDAY. That is a different issue than where the Arrowman has his primary registration. - I have seen serving 18-20 year old Venturers in Lodge Office - I have seen 18-20 year old Assistant Scoutmasters in Lodge Office - I have seen under 18 youth program members of Boy Scoutin in Lodge Office. Be registered in BSA somewhere is the issue ICS

Mr NDL, If it's you and your son, may I suggest at least an initial shakedown in the backyard as the temps dip below freezing. It'll help him learn, and there are folks keeping an eye on him/you only 50 feet away.