John-in-KC

emb: Two words: BUZZWORD!!!! BINGO!!!

I've had a kid who said "I'm not sure." That was at his Life BOR. In his case, I asked his parents what he and she (divorced) were doing to help him. They didn't know he was off his moorings. He started going with other kids to their churches. About a year later, he was working up his Eagle Project. I asked him about God. His response was "God's there, but we sure make it awfully confusing." Couldn't have agreed with him more. Last I heard, he was in a non-denominational church, still searching.

HFE: Whenever I sit a BOR, I talk about God. As a Scout starts the S-L-E path, I talk more about God. BUT! What you described is one reason I'm on a minor crusade (or is it a windmill tilt) to have "earn the age-appropriate religious emblem of your faith. If one is not available for your faith, earn one age-appropriate religious emblem which gives you insights on your faith" added to the S-L-E advancement matrix."

BECAUSE HE'S A KID. Why do you think churches confirm when a youth is an 8th grader or so? Minds are full of mush, he/she doesn't understand the consequences of answering that particular direct question. I guess you've never seen this Bible verse: First Corinthians, Chapter 13, verse 11a (NIV): When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. This is my last post in this thread. Don't bother asking any further. I will not respond.

OK, I think we agree the standard is clear. The question is when and how do I and other leaders apply the standard to youth. Let me say this as plainly as I can: As long as a youth member says words to the effect of I'm learning about (insert name of supreme being here), I'm going to help him in his search. If he says I'm not sure about (insert sb here), I'm going to help him in his search. Only if the youth member says I don't believe, and here's why, and the WHY makes sense, am I going to have to have a talk about if it's time for Scouting and him to part company. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Now, that's fundamentally what I've said before. I'm sorry if you don't understand. I'm sending the message as clearly as I know how to.

I liked the socks back in 1970 or so, the garters were a RPINTA. These days, the tenny-runner version is fine by me.

Merlyn, How many children of your own have you reared? How many have you supported as a direct contact youth-serving leader? Do you understand Ages and Stages? Do you understand that these are people who are learning independent thought, judgment, and conclusion-reaching? I've reared my own son, and supported a fair few. 11-18? Firmly locked in faith? I don't think so. Many, with guidance from friends, teachers, mentors, Pastors, and God, make mind and heart decisions during this time. My own son asks me questions, and we talk about God a fair bit, even now. He's 19, and in college. Now, to answer your specific question, if I have a Scout who professes agnositicsm/atheism at a knowledge and heart level, and refuses to leave voluntarily, I'm going to ask my COR, UC, and DE for assistance. Neither the SM(Venturing Advisor) nor the CC can make this decision; it's not at their level of volunteerism. BTW, as a CC, I've refused to accept a Scouter app, when I asked an adult about the DRP. The standard for adults is clear.

First, I saw two letters: One from a boy who believes in God but hasn't connected to organized religion. From a Scouting perspective, nothing wrong there. Then I saw a letter from a Scoutmaster, who had yet to actually get to questions of faith with the boy. Jeez, what are we as unit serving Scouters supposed to do: The Spanish Inquisition? I do not think so. I will say this: I'm going to go an awful long way to help a young man whose faith is still forming... to help him discover what he does and does not believe. - If he finally hits the point where he looks me in the eye and says "God does not exist, and here's why.", then I'm finally going to have to ask him, outright "Is Scouting for you, if we begin the Oath and end the Law with God?" - If he hits the point of "There may be a god, there may not, but you cannot prove it either way" (which GW cited as the definition of agnostic), then I'm finally going to have to ask him, outright "Is Scouting for you, if we begin the Oath and end the Law with God?" Merlyn, a Scouter has to use common sense and compassion in all he does. I'm sorry if you think we should cut a youth member off at the knees the instant he wavers, but I don't read Scouting that way, especially for youth members.

Actually, the age-appropriate guidelines to activities (within G2SS) says Webelos camping at Boy Scout Camporees is no longer in the authorized list of activities. The words are "visit only." http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/ageguides.pdf Check with your local District/Council for local guidance!

A few years back we had some fair success. We had an active District VOA, and it met as part of Venturing RT. These days, it's pretty slim. Our Crews are almost hyper-specialized; further there is the time demand inherent on HS and college students. I find a lot of what they do is fueled on facebook groups. Their messages collide in near real time while they are doing some other task.

Here is our standard District RT package (all in one place, all in one night) Cub Scout RT - Breakout for Den Leaders - Breakout for CMs, ACMs and Committee folk Boy Scout RT - Program Feature training - Two Special Feature trainings - Scoutmaster to Scoutmaster, a forum for SMs to share - A variety of "corners (freestands with info) District Activities - District Training Committee -- NLE, monthly -- YP Training, monthly - District Advancement Committee -- MB Counselor training, monthly -- Eagle Leadership Service Project Approval, Monthly - District Campin Committee -- OA Chapter, Monthly - District Mall -- Tables staffed by: Commissioner Service, Membership Committee, Activities Committee, Camping Committee, Finance Committee and Professional Service (we have a team of 3 professionals for our District). The Key Point: We make RT be "one stop shopping" for all unit service needs. They go to one place, once a month. If they need paperwork taken to the Scout Office, they can bring it to RT. If there needs to be a Popcorn meeting, it happens RT night. If there is Camporee signup, Camping and Activities Committee man a joint table at RT. Concetrate, not dilute, the effort. Strive to get Scouters, not just the SM or the CC, to attend.

BTW, fl_mom, we do want to know how this turns out. While personally I believe in the "when he's ready, come ask the advancement coordinator or the CC to set up a BOR next week" way of scheduling BORs, I'm OK with monthly. Loud Snoring Bear's 2d monthly is Plan B. BTW, are you registered and on the Committee? Being part of the team won't hurt advocacy for change. Not being part of the team may get you blown off...

Agree, 6-8. I do know one DL who had 15-16, but he was willing: He made two Dens. One met Tuesday, the other Wednesday. His actual dens were 7-8. Even at 6-8 you want an ADL (registered and trained) and a Boy Scout Den Chief (again trained, and you should go to the training with him!). I'm for having that friendly talk over a cup of coffee with the CM and the CC.

jet, Yes I do that. One of our adults works two miles from the Scout Office. For the rest of us, it's a 20+ mile one way drive. He'd take the paperwork down. After a while, when he took an Eagle app, he'd also take an Advancement Report for that one boy... with every rank and MB the boy had earned on it. When the Registrar said "he doesn't have X", the app taker would say "OK, here's an Advancement Report covering X." When he'd call back that night to say he'd needed it, I'd find the original submission... yep, another case of the coding clerks striking again.

How bad do you want to push this noodle? The District Advancement Chair, if he's doing his job, will soon enough get printouts that show your unit not regularly advancing. Will he or the UC do something? Can't tell you. I can guess, even from this remove, the root cause: Your committee, in particular your CC and your advancement guy, don't understand the Advancement Method or ages and stages. Kids advance at their own rate. If it is a race, it's the job of the SM to slow things down a bit, by making sure the kids who sign off on skills are being certain the Scouts coming to them know. Your options: - Try to advocate change and training for the Committee. - Evaluate other area troops, then let your son evaluate against your short list, and punch out. - Do nothing and put up with your Committee procedures.

LSB, Google/YouTube (a subsidiary thereof) restricts ACCESS without registration, not search results.

I'll take brass band (British tradition vice the full woodwind/brasswind symphonic band of American tradition) or a tuba/euphonium quartet any day of the week

Actually, I see what CA is describing. I've had Eagle Apps rejected because COUNCIL employees failed to code in a MB or a rank ... and I had the unit copy of Advancement Reports to back up the submission. What I had done the last 18 months or so of my tenure as unit advancement guy was do a summary Advancement report... I pulled everything from Scout up out of Troopmaster and submitted it. That stopped the rejection problem for non-coding. Optimum? No. Pragmatic? Yes. What CA's Regsitrar appears to be doing is a variant of my technique.

Eagle732 hits the key point, and I think it's cogent to Neil's post as well. Training has to be available more than once in a blue moon. There are multiple ways to handle that, including coordinating training amongst Councils. Lack of frequency to training is a distractor from training. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ There's one other comment I want to make to your post Neil. Lisabob and I have both commented on it over the years: The quality of the training has to add value to the time spent. I know people who will not attend training. They've been burned, some more than once. There is no excuse to reading from the sylabbus. There is no excuse to just reading the slides. Add value to the training aids. Never start class with "I got this package 20 minutes ago, let's discover the learning together."

Didn't our Nation go through this during the era of the House Un-American Activities Committee? I care not if we make every "citizen/national" take the same Oath that immigrants do upon entering Citizenship ... There will be people who will mouth the words pro forma, and just don't care. It's that simple. There will be other people who will out and out lie as they mouth the words. There will be people who care about this Nation. Like Eagletrek and others here, I took my Oath of Office a few mornings ago. I've rendered the Oath a few times, both to enlisted troops and to young people entering the officer corps. There were many times before my retirement date that while others said the Pledge, I quietly recited the Oath. If you care about this Nation, no oath is necessary. You walk the walk. If you care not, you may talk a talk, but you won't do the walk. To me it's that simple.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Hmmmm. The guy seems to be avoided like the plague back then. Anyone can make (or pay to have made) a whizbang website these days. Wonder how many organizations are under license? Wonder how many actual units exist? BTW... 30 core values? We have a tough time finding consensus with 3 Methods and 7-8 values per program.

This is a job for the National Council's attorneys. The folks who produce that filth are tagging the flicks. Unless the tags are pulled, the filth will be tied off to Scouting.

Content withdrawn. J(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Until we the people decide that a 2 year challenge of mortal combat is the best way to elect a President, we deserve the nominees we're stuck with. I've started to decide who I'll vote against by using the "eenie meenie meinie mo" method: He/she who broadcasts the first attack ad that I see or hear about is OUT. It'd be nice if positions on issues actually matter, but I'm well and truly cynical anymore.

Ed, I've been around a day too long to ever say never. This young man dug his own hole; he properly should make a supreme effort to get out of it, now and forever. Will he? That's totally up to him. Can he do fantastic things without being an Eagle Scout? Yes, but again, that's totally up to him. The cautionary here to youth is we expect you to walk the walk.