fred8033

I'm with you. No policy necessary. I've seen thoughtful practices such as new SPL is really elected a two year position. Six months of incoming ASPL. Then 12 months SPL. Then outgoing ASPL for six months. But even with those thoughtful practices, I prefer none. IMHO, the best is to keep it simple and keep the adults in the back of the room. At annual planning, schedule elections twice a year. As close to just over six months as possible. I liked how our troop did it for years. An ASPL scramples to find paper and tears it into election slips. SPL asks for nominations. Each nominee accepts or rejects and/or gives a reason why they want the job. Our troop had SPLs often for 12 or 18 months because the boys would re-elect the SPL until the SPL didn't want to be SPL anymore. SM was always ready to coach a new leader.

"professional life" ... I was differentiating with trades. Trades can provide good income to raise a family. But, trades still mostly require a two year degree (or more) that directly targets the skills to be used. IMHO except for technical degrees (sciences, math, engineering, etc), the general college degrees rarely directly help professional careers ... except to get hired. I've seen many many well educated high school graduates that I consider as well suited for most professional jobs.

Now is when you plan 2020 trips. You're right on schedule. I'd call someone experienced with that exact water. Flows. Waves. Tides. Wind (predictable and BIG issue for us on certain parts of river due to landscape). A good advice I'd give is do your big leg on the first day. We always planned 19 / 20 miles first day and 8/12 miles second day. Scouts were tired on the second day and wanted to get off the river a little after noon.

I firmly agree, but it's now the starting point for a professional life. Very hard to have a long term stable career without a college degree. Personally, I don't see it adding much actual value or capability anymore.

How fast does the river flow? It depends. Moving water or lakes? Unloading, portaging and reloading? For our river trips, we timed it in the fall so the river was slow at about 4 mph. We did 18 to 20 miles the first day. Plenty of breaks for lunch, etc. The key was that even if the scouts did not paddle, we'd get to our destination. It was more a matter of how long we were on the river.

I had misinterpreted as "in-work" merit badges. The question was different in that it was asking about completed merit badges. Specifically, the troop stub portion of the blue card. I do know counselors that keep their inventory long term. I don't. If a scout needed it signed again, I would after a brief chat of where and when and a few of the details.

... Personal use. Not troop ... My absolute first choice ... his paper scoutbook. Put clips or tabs on the key pages were data is recorded. ... Get a zippered cover so he can keep blue card and other paper records if he needs them. My electronic choice is scoutbook. They used to have an individual account if your troop doesn't use it. If they do, ask for your login as a parent. Then, connect your scout to it. It has good reports and good tracking. And, it's BSA's official records.

I knew a scoutmaster that kept them for 20+ years. I personally see little value. I'm with T2Eagle. Now that records are electronic, it's mostly redundant. Minimize the time invested. Have an envelope for 2010, 2011, 2012, etc. Throw away after a few years or eight if it makes you feel better. I've never seen a troop use their portion of the cards to recreate records. Maybe in the old days it would have happened. But not now.

Yeah. I was in a mood, but that is the common comparison to a logical fallacy.

Until they see the scout. Question is a little like "when did you stop beating your wife?". It's hard to answer because you shouldn't be doing that. The blue card should either be in the hands of the scout or the counselor. When done, the scout hands in the troop's portion for the troop to keep. The scout keeps his part. The counselor keeps his part.

I see sports and scouts with similar pros and cons. The big difference I see is that results in sports is much more visible. Confidence. Satisfaction of the parent watching their kid drive kick the ball, hit the ball, pass the ball, etc. Scouts is much more subtle. I often think it's hard for parents to see the benefits. But when I looked close at my kids after each camp out or event, I always saw a little more maturity or capability or pride. My cheap parent view is sports is about more immediate gratification. Scouts takes a longer time to see. Not all parents will wait that long.

I think this is one of the reasons. All my adult leader friends who brought a smile when they showed up have moved on. I still have many friends, but it is not like it was. And I must admit ... this last month, I've done a lot of yard work and home projects that I have put off for a decade. It's sort of nice working my ticket back into my home life.

I've been mulling when to step away and make room for the next volunteer. This will be my 20th year in scouting as a parent. 18th year as a volunteer leader. 500+ nights camping. ... I like sleeping outside on a nice cool night more than sleeping inside ... Wood badge was 11 years ago. Lots of district and council work. I've also done a lot of volunteering outside of scouting. I once thought scouting would be my life-long volunteer passion. But, it's lost it's luster for me in many ways. Maybe that's normal that as you get more involved and more responsible for the content, you also learn more of the inner details. Over this next year, I'll be looking to have someone else take up my district and unit roles. It's time for me to step back.

We had scouts skit by patrol. Parents in the back. Siblings tended to do their own things either with patrol or with parent. Sometimes we had the patrol flags and scouts sat by their patrol flag. Usually a semi-circle.

It has been a few years, but we used the online application for those who were not at the recruitment or join events in-person. Essentially, we'd get them signed up any way possible. BUT ... we preferred the paper. It allowed us to charge the full pack dues. Not just that portion that was paid to national or council. It was always uncomfortable having someone fill out the online national / council application, and then ask them for the pack membership fee later. We used that fee for program, awards, special events, advancements, food, cub books, annual t-shirts and misc cost. We averaged a cost of $30 to $50 per year per cub. We thought we were doing well. We did have a supplemental cost every year that was paid by fundraiser. That fundraiser amount let us go above and beyond. As for online apps, it was nice and smooth. Only issue was whether to charge full pack dues or waive the pack dues for the first year ... (actually first 12 months ... at that time, the online app covers rechartering through the first cycle.) We collected dues in September.

Very sad. BSA is tagged with the greater fault when BSA did more than most institutions to at the time.

You are right. It is fear. I fear someone reading our chat / discussion as direction and advice to go create a library of checklists. I'm okay to use them initially as a tool to teach out to plan a troop meeting or run a PLC or plan a campout meals. I fear another troop rules book. I fear permanently using a library of checklists. I just remember too many times and too many scout leaders that want to write more rules or add forms / checklists instead of providing subtle guidance in the background. I've seen many experienced adult and youth scouts work with new scouts and new leaders to learn their new role. IMHO, it's that interaction that we want. IMHO, person-to-person strongly over forms.

I think the scoutmaster found them effective. And, it promoted his controlling the troop even without his interacting all the time. it created a very procedures oriented troop. There was a flow-chart on how to request rank advancement. Who to get your advancement report from? Then to review it? Then to submit the reviewed signed off sheet to the advancement chair. With the signed off advancement review, the advancement chair would schedule a SMC. Then the scout brings back the slip from the SMC to the advancement chair so the advancement chair can schedule a BOR. Then .... I think it promoted hit-and-run mgmt. ASPL interrupting patrol meeting to see if they had their form done ... multiple times. It promoted proceess / procedure management. It did not teach leadership. Scouts did learn human dynamics as they chased forms.

I worked with a troop that had at least 35+ checklists. SPL pre-campout planning checklist. ASPL pre-campout checklists for visiting the patrols to make sure they were filling out their PL pre-campout checklist and submitting them back to the ASPL. SPL PLC running checklist. QM pre-campout checklist. QM inventory-checkout lists. I swear the troop had at least two and up to five/six checklists for each position in the troop. IMHO, the scouts earned a mini-MBA by being in the troop. One or two templates are useful ... such as for new patrols ... a meal-planning form. Or for new SPLs to use the existing BSA meeting planning form. I'm hesitant on forms because ... in my view ... Scouting is not about teaching how to run processes and procedures. Scouting is about the human interaction dynamics and how to work with each other. ... I twinge when I hear giving the scouts a checklist because it seems like we are pushing adult oriented ISO 9000 accounting procedures down to the scout. Not all checklists are bad ... just most.

I also prefer not pushing checklists on the scouts.

I absolutely agree. From what I see, patrols are meaningless to most of the "troop" meeting. Until a different structure would happen, I agree with your comment. Focus on what is important to patrols. From my perspective, it's always the camping. Food. Activities. Ideas. Future camp / activity planning. Maybe it's also planning to be the service patrol (flags, setup, etc) or the program patrol (adding games and content). IMHO, it needs to always include felllowship time.

I actually think that is a real suggestion. It mimics Cub Scouts, but if you minimize adults and the patrols keep meeting, then I could see it working and working well. I really think patrols are subverted by troop structures and habits.

Free range ... I tend to agree with the "free range" ideal of scouting. Though with today's legal system and risk adverse society, I doubt we could make it cleanly happen. But even then, I don't think it's so bad if we can get the adult leaders sitting in the background enjoying coffee and out of the scout's hair. It's not ideal, but it's achievable. No SPL or PLC ... I like the idea of having the patrol leaders at the top of the POR chain. It's so true that today's BSA POR chain views the PL as the entry level position. It shouldn't be. The whole scout experience and look and feel of the troop should be dependent on the patrol leaders. Sadly, it's really just a pass thru position these days. 300 feet ... I've heard that distance for years now. I just now realized that 300' is about the width of the summer camp troop camp site. There is no way to structurally separate the patrols by 300' when at summer camp. I know one of council's property has nice small pocket camp sites cut out of the trees. But if you measure distance, they are probably 100' center to the center of the next camp site. Is it even structurally possible given today's camps ?

Cool ! About time too. This should be standard practice for all positions.

IMHO, this is the best ECOH. I've seen so so many poorly attended ECOHs that I like a ECOH that is an extension to a normal relaxed fun COH. Also ... my personal preference is ... every COH should be a pot luck. Food builds fellowship.