fred8033

Qualifying statements: I don't believe youth are good or bad. There are behaviors, maturity, distractions and other issues that are incompatible with scouting. Response: Leaders need to address bad behavior. It's infectious. It drives scouts away and can earn your troop a bad reputation. Leaders need to ask scouts to move on if the scout can't behave within the boundaries of scouting. Packs or troops. Depending the behavior, troops that keep such scouts are accepting a lot of risk and taking on responsibility often beyond their experience. My concern is safety and my personal responsibility. Am I willing to take responsibility. Am I going to have the church pastor tell me someone broke a bathroom stall or broke in somewhere they did not belong? Am I going to be able to trust scouts on campouts with fire, knives, fuel, etc where I won't be able to oversee them all the time? I need to sleep. Will I be able to trust those scouts at 2am to not cause trouble or endanger themselves? I cringe hearing "if any scout needs scouting, that scout does". It's truism. Scouting teaches values and behavior that the most problematic scouts often lack. ... But when incidents happen and parents say "if any kid needs scouting, that kid needs scouting", it's often their very own kids that stop attending because they are scared of the other kid or don't want to be associated with the other kid. ... Some leaders have a gift to work with such scouts. I'm not sure if I'm such a leader. Story: We had a problem scout one year. Came in with 12 to 15 new scouts. I had to ask him to move on 18 months later, but not before losing almost all of those new scouts and breaking our recruiting relationship with that pack. And many of the scouts that left were scouts of parents that said "if any scout needs scouting that scout does."

LOL ... I know such a parent. ... comments removed ... he's a friend ... his son has applied to five colleges ... all are at least 1000 miles away. The kid wants to lead his own life now.

I HUGELY AGREE !!!! Program comes first, second and third. Scouts want to be doing things. They crave it. From adult leader view, it builds character, develops friendships and gives them great stories to tell. IMHO ... Forcus your energy on getting your scouts out having adventures, activities, doing things, building friendships. A little energy needs to be on troop structure, PLCs, etc. You must follow GTSS. Beyond that, the vast majority of your energy should be on getting the scouts out doing things and then getting out of their way.

I've been thru dozens. At least 20+. Sometimes it was monthly. Each was half recognition and half promotion. It gets old. I like Woodbadge. It was useful. No where near premiere training, but it was useful. For me, I learned alot about the "ideal" on how things should work. I got little from each training session as I'd been thru high performance team training multiple times. But how the event was run, (marching, sons, structure, B&G banquet style, cross over, etc) was extremely useful. For me, it's the sitting thru promotion after promotion. But you're right. Enough bashing. It's not scout like.

Great comments. Love the comment about avoiding the "insider" focus. So so true. IMHO ... ten minutes is eight or nine minutes too long. The audience did not show up to recognize the importance of Woodbadge. Personally, I like Woodbadge and I grew from taking it. ... My negative is because it's proportionally way out of balance. Our district has had 10 minutes beadings month after month. I just don't want to sit thru those ceremonies anymore. Even two minutes is too long at some point. Here's my ideal script recognition script: "Next up: Woodbadge ticket completions. Would the following individuals stand up. Troop 603 Assistant scoutmaster Felix Unger. Pack 801 cubmaster P.W. Herman. These individuals have completed their Woodbadge tickets and have received their beads. Let's have a round of applause." ... Done ... We should absolutely celebrate someone finishing Woodbadge, but let them and their friends do their extended celebration on their own within the Woodbadge structure.

Not sure how I feel about this story. I'm probably reading too much into this. Positive A scout is helpful. It's nice that people in need can benefit Scouts probably won't lose out much because of covid. Concern Precedent. Will city expect similar in future years such that scout's can't depend on using the property in the future? Why not another city property? Maybe an administration hall with large cardboard dividers? Perception Is scouting viewed as a low priority that should yield? Then again, there is not enough details to understand who owns the property (city or scouts) or if the local council gets a donation from the city for use of the property. Generally a nice story.

Each scout has their own path. Celebrate his path included scouting.

Yep. A well targeted, meaningful "30 second" recognition can help recruit new volunteers and also show other scouts and parents the hard work of the leader. Perhaps the key thing is "30 seconds". "30 seconds" means "30 seconds". As scouters, we often hear "30 seconds" and then lose 5 or 10 minutes. Five minutes is not appropriate in front of youth to recognize an adult. "30 seconds" to recognize adults in front of youth happens all the time and is absolutely appropriate. All of this is about not wasting people's time. Don't waste youth's time. Don't waste adult's time. Don't waste leaders time. ... Don't penalize an adult by giving him an award and then making him lose an evening to get recognized. We can agree to disagree. ... I think it's good for youth to see their adults are investing significant time and being recognized for that.

I had a similar "learning" experience. Key learning ... Negotiate time allowed to present. Make sure they expected to be cut off. Then, cut them off if they run over. Be nice. Give them a little extra, but cut them off. Because someone wants to present does not mean they can hold the group hostage.

Yep. I'd also add a reminder. Most people did not attend to listen to your awards. So keeping it short, succinct, FUN and meaningful will make it acceptable to them. Woodbadge Beadings are a big culprit here. They almost always run ten minutes or longer. You have 60 seconds to 20 seconds. Don't take ten or twenty minutes. It's painful and I end up regretting being there.

(pre-covid) I already donate a dozen plus hours a week. Every time I sign up for an "away from home" activity, it affects my marriage and family. So when I can, I prioritize wife and kids and look for places I can save time. A formal sit-down dinner is the exact place I can save time. I've been involved in the district for a really long time. I avoid the formal sit down dinners. I avoid Woodbadge Beadings (10 to 30 min). Times have changed. This is not the Ward and June Cleaver era. People are stressed and won't sit thru pomp. For awhile, we ran it as an outdoor buffet picnic where unit and district leaders cooked campfire dishes to share. It made the format fun and social; and I can get things done such as needed conversations. Sadly, we went back to a formal sit-down event. People don't want to waste time. I second the suggestion ... Be kind, courteous and thrifty.. Bring the awards to the leader where they are already spending their scouting time. Unit meetings. Maybe unit adult leader meetings. District camporees.

This is similar to the girl scout model too. .... from my understanding ... the girl scout councils have access to their bank accounts. But, at least the units still have their own bank account access. They don't have to submit an expense report or spending request to the council. QUESTION - Does anyone have published reference materials about the new charter model and the councils holding the money ? if councils start managing unit funds, many things in the troop will become a "cash model". Makes the treasurer's life easier, but volunteers can get burned being shorted or having extra work to chase dollars. Our troop has shrunk so much that we are often running on a cash basis. Here's an envelope for this campout with notes on the outside and money on the inside. Many troops have youth collect food money from each other. It's a mixed blessing. It gives scouts responsibility, but scouts don't feel the impact. Their parents do. Usually, the parents are paying for the food. If the scout gets shorted, they don't really care as it's the parent that really got shorted. No skin off the scout's back. Our troop always had the scout submit the food receipt and the scout got reimbursed ... as long as it's within reasonable closeness to the budget.

I'd expect more of these. I'm actually looking to see if we can switch our troop charter to the new model. I think it would be in the best interest of the church. The church provides a space and storage but has no involvement in running the program or overseeing the leaders. It's really no difference to the church. They will continue to support by opening their doors, providing space and storage. It's really a clarification and movement toward how scouting really exists.

@Melga ... Kudos to you ! First big positive ... I absolutely love hearing a volunteer produced the document. I wish more BSA documents were produced by volunteer oversight committees. I realize you did not have significant input, but it's still a big plus. Thanks for the detailed explanation. Working on more platforms is a big improvement as many, many scouts have trouble with the workbook.

From the article .... BSA info to GSA ... sounds like public-vs-proprietary info tap dancing. BSA was pretty much saying the same thing to all the public at that time. And it was generally accurate. We're not going co-ed. We're single gender programs. But single at den level and single at troop level. Just a troop can be single gender of either gender type. ... lots of tap dancing ... Internally ... Sounds like a training issue. First, you don't do things like that. Second, you definitely don't put things in writing like that. Situations that are borderline and subject to interpretation can be pushed over the edge with sloppy internal communication. Effectively, these internal emails become a mea-culpa. Sounds like a training issue.

Might be time to change the name of the award. Connotations have changed. The award is still very honored, but it's followed with inappropriate jokes.

Sorry if I'm preachy at times. It's my personality quirk.

Every scout has always had the option to earn Eagle in less than two years. I agree that it does not produce the best result. Scouting is a journey of experiences; not an award. .... I'd ask a question though. You do not encourage, fine. I fully agree. ... But do you discourage scouts earning in less than two years? I see far too many scouters actually trying to slow down scouts. I just don't think that's an example we should be setting. I pray that I've never "slowed down" a scout. I say that because of a memory when I was new parent in Boy Scouts. The troop had a scout that was all excitement and energy. He'd earn awards as fast as he could. He loved completing requirements and doing new things. It wasn't his parents. It was him. A few ASMs told him multiple times to relax; slow down; you've got time. Sadly, he left and went to do other things. He was at least first class and way, way more merit badges than needed for Eagle. Camped monthly with us for at least two years. The kid basically had completed all requirements for Eagle except a project. ... I saw that holding him back as a major cause of him choosing to spend his time elsewhere. I'll always be sad he did not finish. Each scout has his own journey. Our job is to let each scout have his own journey, experiences ... and time-frame. As earning Eagle is highly valued, opening the door to new Eagle candidates was gauranteed to be a race. A race to be first. A race against time. ... "Inaugural class" is the best way to recognize that it's not a race and it's about the journey. BSA is not recognizing the fastest. Rather, BSA is recognizing the huge transition welcoming girls to scouting. This has needed to happen for a long time. We should celebrate. I hope we tell our male scouts that too.

I started thinking if I could find an authoritative source. My effort was pitiful, but interesting. I pulled up an old copy of the movie "Follow Me Boys". The scouts called their scoutmaster Lem. The adults were formal with each other (last name basis) until they knew each other as friends, close to an inversion of today's practices.

So so true.

It's interesting. Does that mean some BSA personnel might be for actual liquidation.

I agree manners calls for referring to people you don't know by title. Beyond that it's a style and choice. Perhaps this is why troops can be so different. As "colonel" was brought up, perhaps we can think of scouts on a continuum. On one end, is the military --> Stand up straight and salute the those in charge. On the other end is Big Brothers Big Sisters of America --> a friendly, first-name basis mentoring relationship. Both styles are absolutely valid. Our SM for 15 years was always <first name>. He was a good friend to the scouts; a friendly ear; and a mentor. He did not really "lead" the scouts and definitely did not put himself in-charge of the scouts. It's what I wanted for my sons. I consciously avoided the local militant troop. With that said, I'd put our troop up against the other troop any day of the year. Camping. Adventure. Responsibility. Independence. Please do not take this as disrespect. I honor and respect those who choose the military. As a parent, the hardest years for me when my enlisted son was on the other side of the world. Once, we did not see him for over two years. Often, we went weeks / months without communication. He was mostly safe, but it was the hardest years.

So if churches are at risk because they "chartered" a troop with incidents of abuse, does that mean that US government should be a co-defendant? Congress chartered BSA. Every year the President of the United States accepts a face-to-face report out on scouting. For 100 years, BSA's national jamboree happened mostly on a military base. US Military accepts Eagle scout as evidence for immediate military promotion. For most of a 100 years, local governments, schools, police, etc actively involved themselves in scouting. Perhaps the 100B settlement should just be tacked onto the national debt. It's pennies compared to the national spending for the last year. Seriously, the congressional charter is honorific without any substance. Or that's my view.

It's why cases like this are supposed to have time boundaries. The vast majority of these cases lack people who can defend themselves. Deceased. 40 years ago. Society has DRASTICALLY changed. Abuse is always wrong ... but that does not make this court case right.

The same can be said of scout leaders. The vast majority are ethical, high standards individuals. Now, BSA is in financial bankruptcy pursued by ethically bankrupt lawyers. ... my sad attempt at humor in this ugly situation ...