fred johnson

I trust that you saw "without any aid". So I kept looking ... I have not found it yet. BSA Scouting.org - Summary of Aquadics Safety - http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/GSS/gss02.aspx BSA Scouting.org - Guide To Safe Scouting - http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34416.pdf ... page 9. BSA Scouting.org - 2017 Aquatic staff guide - http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/2017_aquatic_%20staff_guide.pdf ... only refers to the change of direction must happen in deep water without any push off or other aid.

This is one of the reasons that I think anyone using the waterfront at camp should do the swim test at camp. Conditions (temp, waves, fish, algea) all affect the ability to swim. I've never been that comfortable with troops that hand-in their "at home" swim test results. It's also a reason the swim test is re-given relatively near the time of the events. Time and conditions change. Heck, I know many SMs that are Eagle Scouts that I question whether they could pass a swim test.

Yeah, that's one of the trouble with BSA. BSA has many things documented in multiple places in slightly different ways. "without any aids" does not exist in the key documents I've looked at. BSA Scouting.org - "ADMINISTRATION OF SWIM CLASSIFICATION TEST" - http://www.scouting.org/filestore/outdoor%20program/aquatics/pdf/430-122.pdf BSA Scouting.org - "Safe Swim Defense" - http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/OutdoorProgram/Aquatics/safe-swim.aspx Both give the test details and do not contain "without any aids". I don't doubt you found one that says "without any aids". Wh

Over the years, I've grown to detest the "boy led" phrase. It's just too overused with too little agreement on what it means. It's often used to malign another unit or another person's efforts while trying to avoid specifics. Too often it's just used to claim the high ground in an argument IMHO, you can tell parents your troop is boy led. But then be specific as to what you would do.

Who says you can't use a face mask ? I'm very much for learning how to swim, but there is flexibility. IMHO, I think it's perfectly reasonable to allow a face mask. IMHO, it's a similar allowance to allowing someone to pass the swimming test in a indoor heated clean pool. Otherwise, it would be best to test swimming ability in murky green stagnant lake water with small fish nibbling at your leg hair on a cold windy day. If we allow clean indoor pool water, I see the facemask as a minor accommodation.

The sad truth is not every scout will want to stay in until they age out. It is a magical mix of program, friendship and schedule. At this point in his life when he's pulled every direction, I'd just try to make his life less stressful and sympathize with the decisions he has to make. You clearly value scouting. He may be a perfectly good young man who finds more value elsewhere.

It's a moot question. The real questions are Do your scouts want to attend the district camporee ? Do your scouts want to do a different camp out ? Can your troop support both or need to choose one ? District camporees are great in that they provide a structure, plan and content for a camp out. It's a service to the troops. And it's great if your troop wants to participate and support the district's efforts. BUT do something else if it becomes a "been there, done that" sort of thing. Maybe your troop wants to plan to do both the district camporee and a more significant campout. Maybe

I'm familiar with the rest of the text. The issue is the intention of the "challenge" is for more blatant in-your-face issues. If "challenge" is taken to the point of referring to planning in Req #8, then it can really be applied to any individual requirement. I'm not sure if even the "discuss" requirements can be safe. I'd be more comfortable if the SM was challenging and said the scout never stood in front of the troop as a MC for the event. But to say he did not "plan" is a subjective statement. PLC approval can be as simple as the scout telling the SPL what he planned to say in the c

That's overstepping that BSA GTA intention for a "challenge". The intention was something blatant such as a blue card coming back from camp but the scout never attended the sessions. Or camping MB coming back, but the scout has only camped 12 nights. "Planning" a COH is a subjective decision. It does not say planning all of the COH. Or write and publish the COH program. It is really up to the MBC to interpret the "planning".

Great answers above. Consistent with above is the answer in BSA Guide To Advancement answer 2017, section 7.0.0.2 About the Application for Merit Badge (“Blue Cardâ€), page 43, 2nd paragraph. "... Even though Scouts may benefit from reviewing requirements with a counselor before pursuing them, a boy may begin working on a merit badge at any time after he is registered. It is the counselor’s decision whether to accept work or activities completed prior to the issuing of the signed blue card. Common sense should prevail, however. For example, nights already camped as a Boy Scout, or c

I fully agree. Find a way to use it to make your life easier. My experience in scouts and in life is that no one is perfect. Every person will start annoying another person at some point. As for scouts, I've only survived because I've learned to let a lot bounce off me. Scouting collects more than it's share of quirky people ... or highly inspired people ... or motivated people ... or in-your-face people ... or people that feel their way is their way is the only way. If you can find a way to let it bounce off you, you will be way way better off.

... wow ... 29 pages ... wow ... that's way, way past my pain limit to read. ... is this like some record?

Modeling the behavior is the most important thing we can do. If we say the SPL is in charge, do we really step back to become less and to stand in the shadows so that the SPL is the focal point? Or, do we constantly interject comments interrupting the SPL as the focal point? If we say a scout his helpful and friendly, do we constantly look for ways to to be friendly and to help? Or do we sit down and grumble as someone else is struggling to setup their tent or to pack up their gear?

Your comments seem reasonable and well said. IMHO, the secret is to get the scouts to treat it as their "club". Their home. Their gang ... all be it a polite well manor'ed gang. Do things that grow their skills and responsibilities, but make it grow their friendships and fun.

You always have a treasurer. You just might not know it. Who carries the checkbook? Who makes deposits? Maybe it's shared, but someone is always responsible to coordinate the money. If your troop may be so small that you don't have a bank account, then who carries the envelop with cash for the next event?

I really think this is the best answer. Swimming is a key to so so many outdoor activities. When I think of my sons, I've seen one that muddled his way through on his own. He passed the test but never became a strong swimmer until later. It put him at risk for canoe and water activities. Another somehow passed, but never learned to swim. Senior scouts signed him off without ever checking. He already earned the rank by the time I learned. My youngest ones did not learn for a long time. They were scared of putting their noses and ears underwater, or even getting their hair wet. W

Jameson76 wrote: "Remember what they said in All the Presidents Man...Follow the money " I absolutely believe that's true, but it's an incomplete insight. BSA has a large structure of camps, staff and other resources. If membership drops continue, we need to sell / divest many prized resources that make scouting scouting. We see it all the time. I think about my own counsel. I'm amazed they have not been forced to sell a camp yet even though membership is way down compared to 1999, pre BSA-v-Dale. To stabilize or increase membership, BSA needs to keep relevant to the times. An

I agree this is a best practice, but it's for more than one reason. Yes, I absolutely don't want to waste scout's money registering 30 adults. But, I would definitely register the advancement chair and the treasurer ... especially in a large troop. IMHO, the bigger reason to minimize the adults registered is focusing on the goal of boys working with boys. When adults are registered, they are empowered (rightly or wrongly) to work with scouts. "Hey, look ! I've got an official title and registration...." But that doesn't mean it's good to have lots and lots of adults working with yo

Who is required to be chartered (outside of the required positions)? Isn't this an oxymoron ? What is the difference between a registered and non-registered leader? Background check Visibility as being a registered leader What benefits do registered leaders receive? You get a magazine. Your points are good though. As registration fees have kept going up, we've trimmed our registered leaders to those that have direct interaction or financial interest in the troop (treasurer). Beyond that, we don't need to register everyone who takes the slightest responsibility. If anything, asking

I don't mind merit badges being taught at district camporees. I'd just like to see that there is something else for those not interested or who already have the badge. Otherwise, attending the camporee becomes a statement of signing up for a merit badge course. I know I had scouts not sign up because our troop did a campout near a facility that offered the badge. It was a great opportunity and a great experience. But it left the scouts two years later with no reason to attend.

I agree. I have no problem with girls joining scouts. I think it's part of keeping the program current and helping our scouts be citizens in a modern society. And, most of the lessons taught by scouts is gender neutral. With that said, I do often think of scouts as a way to help my boys mature and become strong, capable men. Heck, I've had kids in our troop that fell apart on simple camp outs, but were stars on their football team. Stars on the sports field, but unable to handle spiders, rain and the dark. They were able to shine in their expertise, but unable to adapt to adversity

Me too. The following is my private thoughts and not really trying to push a "standard". I want my boys to be comfortable being manly in a society that often diminishes those traits. Strong. Proud. Capable. Action oriented. Standing tall. Not complaining, whining or gossiping. Not prone to tears when someone challenges them. Not automatically depending on help in hard situations. I want my sons to develop the best traits that we see in John Wayne, Clint Eastwood, Jimmy Stewart, Gary Cooper, etc. I'd like them to be comfortable in hard situations. At the same time, I want

Though this is your son's issue to solve, I would coach him. He may not know how much he can stand up for what he did. He may feel guilty that there is a misunderstanding after all his work. He needs to own his project and be the driving force, but that doesn't mean you have to be 100% hands off. Also, there is definitely an imbalance of power that needs help. They have power over not willing to sign. They also have power because of age, size, experience. I would not have an issue with his SM or another adult offsetting the imbalance. I'd start by talking with the beneficiary

Let's say this whole change is successful and I really really hope it is. IMHO, KYScouter reflected the biggest challenge. As numbers have dropped for the last 15 years, packs have closed or merged. Packs have started recruiting from multiple schools. Successful packs will become too large to manage or too large to meet where they've been meeting. IMHO, this is the biggest challenge. If we got a 10% to 20% cub membership increase, it could be probably absorbed. But if we get a 25% to 50% increase in new cubs, it would require creating new packs, finding new leaders and finding ne

That's way too much. It subverts the whole premise of how scouts works. Our best summer camps have been when our adult ratio is 1:10 or 1:15. The camp requirement was 2 adults. Another way to solve this is to get a 2nd camp site at the camp significantly away from the scouts. Say three minute walk or at least 600 feet away. All adults camp there except top two lead adults.