fred johnson

The council has an initiative to serve the larger community and to be a recognized source for teaching leadership. In addition, council properties are marketed both for direct scouting use and for use by schools and other community groups. As altruistic as it is, it is also a recognition that the council needs revenue and the council properties are sitting waiting to be used. Why not open camps to field trips and other youth programs? Especially, if they can pay. http://www.explorebasecamp.org/

Yeah, that's how my sons and his friends do it too. They have done sleep overs where each is to bring $20 or $30 (not sure amount). Then someone puts the money together and they go buy a box of MTG booster cards. The kids build decks with them and it's a weekend competition. You bring home the cards you drafted. So it's not gambling as much as buying new cards to start at an even footing. This is also how the local gaming store runs tournaments. There is a buy-in dollar amount, but the buy-in matches the price of the amount of cards you are using and then keeping. The store profits because 20 customers are buying 50 cards each ... effectively. tps://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Dtoys-and-games&field-keywords=magic+the+gathering+draft+

You could always bring your swimming stuff and go right to the pool before or after. Then, start a trend. Often unit leaders are less in control than they think.

I pray this was before the BSA GTA 2011 re-write. I fear though I still hear of this happening at times.

Ok. This is different that the inferences I read earlier. I should revoke what I said if this is true. But then again, things change to fix situations. I would not be surprised about retroactively registering a scout if they were not setup right in the system.

Something does not sound right. The Eagle project proposal has always required the district/council approval as a separate distinct approval. It's right after the troop committee chair approval. In addition, councils are not allowed to change the workbook or the process. Now can council's give the power to the troops to sign for council / district? I'd be interested to hear if that's true. It would be a big surprise to me though. As for the process varying district to district, I do grant you that. We have 15+ districts in our council. In one district, there is a board similar to what you discuss. They meet once a month and (I think) it's a first come first serve basis to present and get your proposal approved. Multiple people sit on the board. The scout may be competing with many others for a time slot or may have the night to themselves. Some may not even get in that night. In our district since summer 2011, it has been one person. The scout calls them and schedules a meeting. Usually two or three days later, they meet (bringing a parent). Usually, the scout leaves with a signature. I know I would cringe to send our scouts through the other district's monthly board for a proposal review. Likewise, they probably are not impressed with our district and would accuse us of not holding a high enough standard.

Jumping the gun was addressed in BSA Advancement News Nov / Dec 2017. Essentially, BSA stood on both sides of the fence. Getting the project is expected, but the project proposal approval is not a rank requirement. As such, scouts can still get the project approved as fulfilling the rank requirement even if the project proposal was ever approved. ... IMHO, BSA means well, but the expectations now are clear as mud. In any event, the project proposal not being signed is not the stopping point. From what I've read, the family wanted to use the scouting program without actually being a scout, using registered MBCs or following the expectations for rank advancement. I've seen multiple scouts with similar disabilities advance. But the got the disability recognized and alternate advancement approved by the council advancement committee. From what I've read, all of the scout's advancement is in question due to never having gone that route.

I'm responding in my view ... not representing everyone. Minor issue ... I fear your solution would require a tech admin focusing and solving issues continually. If you have 50 scouts and each has a folder, granting rights, uploading, downloading, who has uploaded what recently, etc. ... I just fear we'd need extensive tech support to keep this running smooth. More significant ... The scouts that need intensive checking of requirements are 10, 11 and 12 years old. They may or may not have a phone, but I'd absolutely not want them to have a laptop at the meeting. Getting them setup correctly may be difficult. More significant ... As a parent, I want to delay and lower how much my kids are online. When they are with people, I want them working face-to-face. Not face-to-screen-to-other-screen-to-other-person. More significant ... We've had scout unit web sites for years. Often, many families never use the site or rarely use the site. Does that mean we are telling those families to gear up or get out? Is it even an issue within the control of the scout? Or is it really a bigger family issue that is beyond what an 11 year old should be handling? My biggest issue ... Focus of scouting should be on doing things. Camping. Games. Activities. Advancement needs to like the experienced scout leader that tries to stand outside the activities looking in and only minimally injecting themselves as necessary. I fear that your solution promotes advancement to the forefront of scouting activities. Scouting for advancement. IMHO, that's just not the way to do it. IMHO, scouts should be able to accomplish everything with the lowest common denominator ... at the meetings ... at the camp outs .. without parent support ... without high tech equipment. The absolute best way for scouts to track advancement is in their paper scoutbook. If it's lost, it's pretty easy to re-create or handle without much damage to the scout. Plus, it's re synchronized with each rank award. Once they earn the rank, no one really needs to look backward except out of curiosity. I must admit that I have absolutely no issue with ASMs or SMs helping sign off advancement. And, I think I can defend that well. But it's a different topic.

When I say walk out... it's usually during a break or done politely. they've only done it a few times now. As for selection, they don't always get to choose. Sometimes it's a direct choice. Other times they are at summer camp or a merit badge fair. In those events, it's a throw of the dice if you are working with a good MBC. I've found too often people organize events to offer multiple merit badges, but then market some badges only to find they lack quality MBCs.

The postings from Wisconsin Momma reminded me of a rule that I accidentally established with my sons and that I'm glad exists now. BACKGROUND: My sons signed up for a Saturday MB program. The two badges they signed up for "could" be interesting if done well. A morning MB. Then pizza. Then an afternoon MB. The guy teaching the morning MB had zero expertise in the topic. Nothing special. He was a college kid who signed up because they needed a warm body as the counselor. He had PowerPoint slides walking the requirements with bulleted text that looked pretty much right from the handbook. It was painful to watch. My sons wanted to leave half way through around an hour in. I told them to sit through it. At lunch time, we learned the same situation was going to happen for the second badge. ... we left. When I attend seminars, I often walk out of the room and change to a different session if the session I choose is lame or not useful. I told this to my boss and he was 100% okay with it. His comments were that if I'm not getting something out of it, it's a waste. Go switch and see if there is something else I can draw value from. NEW RULE: If my sons are having a bad experience, I'm okay with their leaving. If it's so-so, I ask them to stick it out as a good habit. But if it's just painful, I'm okay with leaving. I don't want them to waste their time. They just don't need any single MB that bad. For Eagle badges, they can always find another counselor or session. What do you think?

Oh.... Indian lore was done by a local indian tribe on their reservation at their tribe's museum. Archaeology done by two MBCs - one a park ranger showing his dig site and the other a local college professor (who was very entertaining for the scouts) IMHO ... It's not the badge. It's the setting, the connection with the scout, the overall experience. Some lend to better experiences and some are really hard to create as good experiences.

I like it too, but I'd like to see some overlap options. I say that as scouting is very much about friendships and maturity. Maybe ... 8-11 Bears, Webelos, AOL 10-18 Boy Scouts 16-21 Venturing 18-25 Young adults

BSA should focus on addressing this. This is the most common experience with merit badges. It gives scouts a bad name and it gives MBs a bad name. This needs to be fixed. My sons have had this experience too. MBs that are mostly lecture and little activity. IMHO, it's like the canoe merit badge should be taught mostly while canoeing. Golfing should be mostly taught while holding a golf club and golfing.

The more I think about it ... it's not the badge. It's the successful connection with the scout and making it meaningful. But I do very much like the badges that the scout can't get elsewhere. Too many of our "required" badges have major overlap with school. IMHO, I'd like to see SMs have the option to switch badges for the scout if he and the scout agree the badge doesn't have much meaning for the scout. IMHO, I'd much rather have the scout earn meaningful badges. Example - Most 17 year old high school seniors find all the citizenship badges extremely simple and automatic badges. IMHO, I'd like the scoutmaster to have the option to switch something out for them that would make the experience more meaningful. Maybe Citizen of the Nation is meaningful for an eleven year old scout, but it's shallow for a 17 year old scout ... hopefully if our school system is worth anything.

I have very fond memories of very very interactive merit badges. I don't really have a favorite badge as much as deep gratitude to MBCs who made badges interesting. Photography - Scouts running around taking pictures and putting together a presentation. Chess - Big chess camp wide chess tournament. Metal work - Scouts bent, spot welded and powder coat painted their own tool boxes. Archery - Scouts made and shot their own arrows. Horsemanship - Scouts spent a week at camp taking care of the horses. Crime Prevention - Scouts toured the local FBI headquarters. Run by a FBI special agent. Cycling - Year worth of long bike trips and bike related camp outs. Swimming - Year worth of swimming practice. Golf - Lots of trips to the golf course hitting golf balls. Canoeing - Long canoe trip. Water sports - Week long camp of the scouts learning to water ski, etc. I've also learned being a MBC is tricky. Ya have to make a connectin with the scout. I've tried and failed coaching some badges. I fear I've not always been inspirational. A few times I think the scouts never wanted to see the subject again. I failed. They probably also contributed to the failure by not being interested. But I just did not connect with the scouts and I feel bad. My best badge was Citizen of the Nation where the scout and I spent time at summer camp every day working through the topics sitting at the camp fire or under trees or on the beach. It was unstructured free time at camp. He finished the badge, but for years to come we'd sit at camp and discuss the related subject. We even had other scouts join us in our discussions. To this day, I miss those summer camp discussions.

I was trying to state that parents and families enter the program and then over time the program changes on them. Some enter for the fellowship and to take their young kids out somewhere. But then camping begins to be emphasized in a few years. Well at that point, many parents have grown accustomed to scouting as a GO SEE IT activity and they did not sign up for the new objective of camping. Or the scouts go CAR CAMPING and the program grows to high adventure. Some families will be viewing it as something they did not sign up for. Or the program grows to BOYS LEADING, some families did not sign up for it. When you do baseball, violin or ballet, the program is pretty much the program. More challenging over time depending on stronger skills, but the program has really not changed drastically. I'd argue scouts does change. It changes enough that it can break the contract with the parents on why they joined or what they perceive scouting to be. IMHO, let's start scouts out when they can do the outdoor program and let's focus on what other programs are not focusing on. Fire. Knives. Bow and arrow. Long hikes and outdoors. Then, we keep growing those skills. It's through the doing that we can help scouts focus on leadership, organization and responsibility. This started because I'm arguing starting cubs at K & 1st grade is causing trouble. It misrepresents what scouts is about. It burns out families and is a major cause of troops being weaker. Cubs should start in 2nd grade (or 3rd). Let them try baseball and the other activities. When they are ready for fire and knives and camping, try scouting.

It's probably why baseball and other programs may be able to successfully recruit younger. Same with Violin programs. The program does not change year to year. It just gets more challenging. Bigger bats and violins. The five year old program very much resembles what the 17 year old program will be, just at a much lower level. The scouting program changes drastically from Lions & Tigers until Eagle scout. Parent involvement changes. Whole types of challenge changes. Types of activities change. It's just a much much different program. Lions & Tigers is a baby sitting program. Go see things. No real skills development or focus at all. Higher cub scout levels add knives and fire. Boy scouts adds independence and separation. Higher years adds high adventure.

This is a real concern. The membership numbers have been bad for a long time, but locally the numbers are getting very bad. Bad to the point that 75% or more of the units are on the bring of collapsing. The numbers are bad. I just never expected this years numbers to be as bad as they are. All the recent program changes seem to address the continual loss. IMHO, BSA has done some good and bad things. Girls in scouting ... I think this is a good change. Not only does it open up BSA to many more youth, it also brings BSA into the modern era. Unless it is a physical issue (football = size, basketball = height, etc), program are becoming more and more co-ed. When we think of other youth programs, they are co-ed: Theater. Debate. Robotics. Chess team. Math teams. And to be blunt, scouting in the rest of the world is co-ed. I just don't see a good argument to keep it gender segregated here. IMHO, this will help the numbers long term. Lions and Tigers ... I think this has been a bad change. Families establish a perception of scouting in their first few years. At K & 1st grade, youth are just too immature. The perception of scouting starts bad and does not recover. A few units may do it well, but the majority just don't. Then add family burn-out from five plus year cub scouts. Then, add the endless repetition. ... Cub scouts was originally created as a program for youth too young for Boy Scouts. It was meant to be just a few years. ... Then when we started scouting, Tigers were just a friend of the pack, full membership. IMHO, we should go back to Cub Scouts starting in 2nd grade and then it's a GO SEE IT and GO DO THINGS program. Essentially, start scouting when the kids are ready for using knives and starting fires. Scouting is at it's best when we focus on OUTINGS and GO DO THINGS. Then, as part of OUTING and DOING THINGS, we encourage the scouts to lead and be organized and take responsibility, etc. At this point, our district is 1/3 the size of it was 15 years ago.

This is a life lesson situation. As a person of good conscious, you will make decisions to preserve your reputation. I say this as you not only want to be a good person, but you want to be perceived as a good person. It will recur during your life with situations that are fine and situations that might be close to the line. Parents as MBC is fine. Parents often expect more of their own scouts than generic leaders. I know with my own sons they "EARNED" their badge and it was often a whole summer project. For their Eagle projects, my influence probably grew their project 200%. Some parents will skirt the details to make it easier. Most adults will have no qualms with MBs council'ed by parents ... as long as it is not too many or too many Eagle badges. Some parents will gossip and make innuendos. You can't control that. So you need to make your decision on how you want to proceed. You can absolutely use your parent as a coach without any guilt. But you may want to go the extra step and find a separate coach to avoid cheap comments. Either is fine. My only comment that remains is If you are asking this question about whether using a parent is okay as a MBC, then ... in the back of your mind ... do you see or have you seen situations where slights or comments are made about parents as MBCs? If so, maybe you want to find a different MBC than your parent. It is absolutely your choice.

Sounds very close to our troop. Hand built web --> SOAR --> Google docs --> Facebook (public marketing) ... My key is parents want accurate info. So SOAR and Facebook are for the parents. Scouts communicate to scouts and we've just given up control to let them choose how to communicate. Some call each other. Lots of them have a massive group text. Others email. From what I've seen, as long as it stays "appropriate", I'm going to stay out of their communication paths.

I view troop web sites and Facebook existing to keep parents happy. If it's not there, parents complain. But if it is there, they may or may not use it. It's just an expectation of doing business these days. I don't view any of the troop online presence being for the scouts. They text each other and use other methods. And to be honest, I like that. I want my scouts to be working with other scouts face-to-face and using pencil and paper and putting the paper in their scoutbook. Let the adults update the troop web site for adult use (communication and calendaring).

Our scouts that attended previously would help run the games and support the SPL. And they still enjoyed the games. But I agree, it can waste a Saturday if already taken once.

I applaud your adding supplemental youth POR training. How adding an hour for adult leaders on how they can facilitate BSA ISLT in their troops and how to use the BSA materials? I've seen lots of adult leader training but so so many miss the basics such as training our leaders to do ISLT. https://www.scouting.org/training/youth/ "When my sons started in boy scouts", our scoutmaster ran ISLT at least once a year. It was a Saturday morning and some of the afternoon. The SPL ran it. The SM had coached the SPL in advance. I remember it well because it was segmented and there was a grainy VHS tape with outdated uniforms, etc. ISLT was divided into modules separated by discussion and games. The SPL introduced the topic, press play and pause on the VHS player and facilitated discussion. Then the SPL had one or more youth run each game / activity. I remember the blindfolded scouts using ropes on an elastic loop to pick up and move a coffee can. I remember the bag lunch where one bag had cookies, another meat, another bread, another etc. The key point was the scouts HAD FUN during the course. They might have mocked the video a bit for being low tech, out dated, etc. But they learned. And it was less about the WHY AND HOW and more about growing together as a leadership team. Plus the SPL grew the most by being able to run the program. IMHO, I really wish I could see that training hosted more.

Every one of my sons had trouble with the swimming MB, but ya know it was really a parent issue in the end. The first son struggled, but got by after a year or so. I kept wondering ... how will this kid get past this obstacle? The next son somehow was signed off by other scouts and passed his swimming requirements. Not really sure how it happened. I heard about it a month later at COH. ... I was not sure whether I should step in and cause him embarrassment as he was just awarded advancement. My last two sons spent over a year learning to swim with 2 or 3 trips each week to the pool. I grew closer to my sons. They became confident in the water and good swimmers. Plus it got us all off the coach and doing something beyond video games in the evening. IMHO, this is the whole reason we got into scouts. I really wish I could stay focused on all the parts of scouting as we did with swimming. Too often, we get focused on the badge instead of the learning. The swimming MB because a great experience for my last two sons.

Wouldn't your parents count? Reasonableness. With any requirement, we need to think about thresholds and did you fulfill the expectation of the requirement. It's like the scout looking to fulfill the camping MB requirement who puts up and sleeps inside a tent inside an air conditioned building. Yes, he put up a tent and slept in it. But he defeated the whole purpose of the requirement. A reasonable person would say no. Likewise, I'd argue a reasonable person would say you did not meet the expectation of the requirement if you only led your parents. I'd argue further that only leading parents would brake trust. It's not hard to find others to lead. Adult leaders also know parents often step in and take control of projects. As such, I'd be very, very critical of a scout who said they only led their parents. BSA Guide To Advancement, page 68, 9.0.2.4 “Give Leadership to Others” ... This paragraph identifies the intent, but can't address every situation. But it does say this. So if I was approving your project proposal and you told me that you would only be leading your parents, I would not approve the project. If I was sitting at your EBOR and learned that the only people you led were you're parents, I'd then be much more critical of your project. You very well may have the EBOR suspended until you demonstrate another project where you did meet the requirement to lead others. As for your projects, you have many you could lead. The candidates showing up and debating. The candidates being interviewed and answering your voter guide questions. The people distributing your voter guides. Those volunteers helping run your debate. Setting up chairs. Providing refreshments. Cleaning up. Podiums. Have someone else publish the brochure. Have someone else publish the guide.