emb021

I wonder if someone who took the previous WB, but staffed 21CWB would be eligable.

I have seen many sashes autographed by the National Chief, Vice-Chief and Regional Chiefs. I've seen some with all their signatures. I've never seen any rule that says you can't get them signed. My personal feeling is that if you do so, please put them away and don't wear them. I do not understand the appeal of wearing a signed sash. I can understand getting them signed (same as getting a baseball signed or a book signed), but once done so I view that item as a valuable (to me) memoriabilia item and something I wouldn't wear.

"It isn't a BSA belt. Look in the insignia guide. "Leather camp, high-adventure base or Wood Badge belts with official BSA buckles may be worn. . . " "Reading that, the old two piece buckle with leather belt may not be allowed . . . "Heck, my Philmont buckle and my Goshen buckle are probably taboo as well." A Philmont belt/buckle falls under 'high adventure base'. Goshen was made by a BSA local council/camp, so that should be ok, as would any lodge or council made belt/buckle. "I have belts and buckles or hat badges from Hong Kong, Taiwan, Thailand, France, Germany, Canada, Great Britain, South Africa, Brazil, Greece, Poland, Russia and more that I can't think of." I wouldn't wear a belt/buckle or hat from a foreign scout association. A WOSM belt/buckle is a different matter.

"You could also buy a WOSM belt and buckle from WOSM's web site. Not really regulation but the Uniform Police probably won't notice." I have one of those and wear it every so often. (There are some of my pants/shorts I can't wear it with, as the belt loops are too small to get the belt on). I picked it up at the World Jamboree. As it's a World Scouting belt, how is it 'not regulation'? Its meant to be worn by any scout around the world. Its not like we're wearing a belt from another scout association.

Check the charter agreement, but the unit is 'owned' by the charter organization, and all equipment and money remains with the unit. This has come up in the past when units have 'moved' to other charter organizations. Unless the old charter org allowed the equipment to go to the new charter org, it stayed. (I recalled once instance when the entire unit folded and moved to another charter org, but the original charter org won't allow them to take the equipment with them, because they figured they 'start another unit sometime in the future'.)

"My comment was based on my experiences with the staff at the scout shops in my council. They are knowledgeable on uniform insignia and if they're not sure on something, they have access to the uniform inspection sheets that show where insignia are worn. " Then you are very very fortunate. I happened to be at one of our local scout shops and was able to help a Venturing leader who was about to purchase venture strips for his uniform and wanted to know where they go. The staff there didn't know enought that they weren't Venturing items. Another time they sold a crew leader venturing silver award knots, tell them the knot could be worn to show earning a venturing bronze award...

"The difference between sports and scouts is that scouts is BOY LED!" This is getting off the topic, but there are many who don't get the distintion. There are many youth who claim their position of captian of this team or that gave them lots of 'leadership experience' etc. And you always see coaches being trotted out as some kind of 'leadership expert'. "I bet the scout shop where you buy your uniforms can help." I bet they can't. Sorry, but too often the people working the scout shop are very ignorant about the insignia and where they are worn.

"Are they allowed to wear this cord and the patch at the same time??? I would say yes because the cord represents an award and the patch represents serving in the positon." Yes. In fact there are drawings in the Insignia Guide showing the wearing of both the service cord and the den chief cords at the same time. Nothing says a youth can't continue being a den chief for another year.

Ditto on never having heard this 'policy' of not wearing the patch and cord at the same time. If so, why even have them? Keep in mind that there are 2 different cords: Cub Scout Den Chief and Webelos Den Chief, while the patch is just a generic 'den chief' patch. I think in the 'old days' the cords were the only sign of office, the patch was added I think in the 70s.

First off, it really helps to get the program straight. It's Venturing, not Venture. By and large, the job of a Committee Chair for a Venturing Crew is much like that for Committee Chair of a Troop. Sadly, there is no 'Venturing Crew Committee' training, so I would recommend that you go thru Venturing Leader Specific Training, which is the same training that Venturing Crew adult leaders. No separate manual for the Crew Committee, so get a copy of the Venturing Leader Manual. Keep in mind that Venturing is NOT like Boy Scouts. More so then in a troop, in Venturing it's the Venturers who plan and run things. The crew adult leaders just advise them, not run things. The Crew Committee are just there to support and help the crew. Where things get messed up with Crews are when the adults try to run things, worse try to run things like it was a scout troop, which it's not. So it's really really important that the adults take the training and really learn what the program is (and isn't). Hope that helps.

Sounds good. Let the Kodiak people know how it went. Its great to show people the wide ranges of delivery styles that can be done with Kodiak. You can see some of this at the Kodiak website, along with course pictures, patches, etc: http://www.kodiak-bsa.org/

"Alright, I'll give you that one. Kodiak at Sea will be a two weekend long leadership cruise. As far as making it a council course, what's the diff? It's still going to be our instructors, on our boat, with our youth. Signature here, budget there, bam, it's a council course." Kodiak can be done by a ship/crew on their own. You do need council approval, but it doesn't need to be a council-run course. So enjoy. Kodiak X must be a council or district run course, and is intended to be run at a council camp. AFAIK, your Kodiak X Course Director needs to have gone thru the CDC or been on staff for a Kodiak X course. Don't believe that's changed. "I just don't think that VLSC patch is going to fit well on the Sea Scout uniforms. But, I did find an alternate that I think the youth in our ship will find appealing and aid in motivating them to pursue all three levels. But, it'll have to be a ship's secret." I don't think it would fit well either, but would recommend giving them the patches anyway. If a Sea Scout does wear a VLSC patch on their uniform, so what? They earned, so wear it.

VLSC patches are basically white. White background with green border. Kodiak is not a weekend course. Its a 2 weekend or weeklong course. If you're going to do Kodiak, please follow the syllabus. Kodiak X can only be given by a council or district, not a ship/crew. AFAIK, you need to have gone thru Kodiak/Kodiak X CDC. There are on-line resources for Kodiak/Kodiak X, including a Yahoo Group. If you are interested in this course, I recommend you get involved with the Group.

"What if the youth want to call themselves a Venture Scout Venturing Patrol Crew? You'd be in a real pickle there." Why would the youth want to do that? Its a mess, confusing, and wrong. "There's a new Central Region Commodore. I wish her the best, especially after having to pick up the pieces from her two predecessors. Under the last two previous commodores number in the midwest dropped over 25%, there was no regional training to speak of for years, poor communications, a weak, uncooperative committee, well, it just wasn't any good. Wouldn't the national commodore and the national committee be the ones responsible for the floundering program in the Midwest? Yet, it was blek for the last 10 years." I prefer to fix the problem, not the blame. A lot of people might be at fault. There are many people, at many levels, who can help fix it. I've never carried for do-nothing, obstructionist volunteer leaders, no matter what level they are at. "But, from where I sit, at unit level, mentioning the national commodore, the national committee, or any regional or area commodores, doesn't make me sit any straighter in my chair or fill me with awe of any kind. Actually, the more contact I have with some who only server at district, council, region, and national levels only, the more we want to reject being involved with them and concentrate solely at unit level, back where the Rudder meets the Rode." There are many people, at many levels, including unit, who aren't contributing to the program. Fix the problem, get the right people, and things will be better. A mistake that people at the local level get into is thinking they are better off without those at the upper levels. They are wrong. A mistake that people at the upper levels make is thinking they are more important then those at the local level. They are wrong. "Instead of correcting poster's use of terminology, would you benefit the program more by using your vast array of knowledge and starting a crew or ship?" Incorret terminology causes confusion amoung those who don't fully understand things. This leads to further problems. This is why we teach people stuff like communicating clearly and understand what happens when we don't communicate (or don't communicate clearly). This is why we have things like dictionaries and glossaries so we can use the correct term in the correct way. As to your final comment. Everyone contributes to the program. There are those who have the time, skills, and abilities to setup and run a crew/ship. There are those who do not have the time, skills, and abilities to run a crew/ship, but who DO have the time, skills, and abilities to support such people at the upper levels. We all have a place we can help out the program. I find it incrediblty rude and un-scoutlike to consider those who support the unit-level leaders at district/council/etc and aren't also unit leaders to somehow be lesser contributors to scouting.

Scoutldr pretty much covered the basics about the OA. I will add the following. The OA is several things. It's a service organization, so your son can be involved in a lot more ways to serve scouting and his community. It's a leadership development organization, so your son can be involved in new leadership development training and opportunities. And because of its Indian Lore inspiration, many people get into that aspect. There are some people who only get into one of these, some into many or some. OA can open a lot of doors to new experiences in scouting. Tying in to the above: * he can now be involved in service work for his camp and local community thru his lodge and chapter (subdivision of his lodge). And there are national service opportunities, such as ArrowCorps5 coming up this Summer (this may lead to future versions of this). * he can now be involved with scouts from his district and council, and become a leader amoung them, planning out events at district, council or even area levels (maybe national, if he wants). * he can now be involved in unique opportunites open only to Arrowmen, such as the OA Service Corps at Jamboree, attending NOAC (National OA Conference), OA Trail Crew at Philmont, OA Wilderness Voyage at Northern Tier, and OA Ocean Adventure at Sea Base. * he can attend unique leadership development opportunities such as Lodge Leadership Development, National Leadership Seminar, and more. There are also lodge and chapter events, Section Conferences/Conclaves, and more. * he can be given the chance to staff local scouting events, thru the lodge and chapter being asked to help out at scout shows, camporees, etc. I've heard of whole camporees staffed by Arrowmen. * he can help out scouting in his local council thru OA Scoutreach activities, organized by his lodge & chapter. I know of many scouts, many who have Eagle, who stayed in scouting because of their involvement in the OA.

"GSUSA keeps trying to change based on what the girls who aren't members say. Then those same girls say, "Well, duh! I'm not going to join anyway." " That seems to be the impression of others. Was chatting with a fellow leader at the WSJ from my area, who is/was also involved in GSUSA. She felt that all these changes in GSUSA was an attempt to attract girls who won't be interested in being in Girl Scouts, which just turned away the girls who DID want to be in Girl Scouts. Go figure. Studio 2B is a good example of this.

I have to agree with GNX. AFAIK, there has been no approval of any such modification of the Long Cruise to allow for non-boating time. I've not heard of any such policy change. Wonder what kind of response I'd get on the National Sea Scout mailing list if I ask, considering our National Commodore's on the list... Also, Argyl, please get the program names right. Its Venturing, not Venture. Venture is a Boy Scout program. There are no "Venture Scout Leaders" in the BSA. There are Venturing leaders, Sea Scout Leaders, Boy Scout leaders, etc, but no 'Venture Scout leaders'.

Don't forget that long-time unit leaders can be nominateed for the District Award of Merit & Silver Beaver. I think too often people think only those at the district or council level are 'eligable'. Also, many units and district come up with other ways to recognize long term service. Ok, so they aren't another knot or something for the unit, but there are ways to recognize this.

Well, there is a method to show tenure: service stars. National has never bothered to have the idea you put forth, and I think most leaders would balk at bothering to re-earn a training award/key to get another pin.

Keep in mind there are 3 levels of this award: council, region, and national. Council recognizes those at the local level: unit, district, council. It has a blue & white ribbon. Region recognizes those at the regional/area level. It has a green & white ribbon. National recognizes those at the national level. It has a red & white ribbon. There is one knot for this award. It has three background colors: green, red, blue, and you put a pin (either venturing or sea scout) in the background color to indicate which VLA(s) you have received.

If you are worried about overstock, having pre-orders is a good idea, and only having a few on-hand. embroidered polo and denim shirts are nice. Same with hats. Depending on the area, jackets & or vests can be popular. Large backpatch with the lodge logo is nice. Mugs (by that I mean large plastic mugs that would really be used, not small ceramic coffee mugs) can be an idea, especially if you emphasize that NO cups will be provided during your lodge events (cuts down on cost and trash) and require all to get them. Backpacks with the logo are nice, but would recommend only doing those by pre-order. belts and buckles can be popular. You can get the standard leather boy scout belt with your lodge name and number on them. Embroidered key chains, especially if you do them as 'mini flaps', can be good sellers. Btw, most lodges in my area make these items, all to raise funds. They don't make them really costly, but do add a little to the manufacturing price.

National Supply has one that is white with the Sea Scout logo on the front.

I know of several OA Lodges who use the JWF as a way to make a contribution to the council AND recognize members of the Lodge. Some lodges present 1 or 2 JWF on an annual basis.

"I tried to figure it out with a a quick google search, but I don't know when Varsity officially stopped being part of a troop." Guess you didn't check out my website: http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Falls/8826/ Varsity stopped being part of a troop in 1995. At that point, the ASM-Varsity position was dropped and the Varsity strip moved over to the Varsity Scout Teams.

"Back to this square knot deal. Two years for the Training Award and then three additional years for a key, five year total for both. emb, you're slipping all over the place today." Excuse you, but you misread what I said. 2 years for the training award, additional year (total of 3) for the key, for a total of 3 if you are a Key leader who had never previously earned the training award.