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"We have a unit in town that just hit their 50th year of charter, and I saw at a Council Expo they had the unit number with 50 under it. It might look a tad silly with a less impressive number, besides, who wants to sew on a new one every year?" You don't get a new veteran unit bar each year. They are only made in increments of 5 years from 25 to 90. Originally, they only had 25 and 50 year bars. Then they added 75 years, and then 5 year incremental bars.

You can get the official word on Venturers/Sea Scouts earning Boy Scout advancement in the current Boy Scout Advancement book (2008 edition should be out) as well as the Advancement Committee Book. As noted, the boy must do the work before they are 18, fulfil a POR in their Crew or Ship, and have their Crew or Ship Committee conduct the Board of Review. I am not aware of the Sea Scout Manual saying anything different, but frankly, when it comes to the rules on Boy Scout advancement, the 2 advancement works I cited above would trump any Sea Scout material.

"Venture patrols are not Venturers." Correct. Venturers are the name for the youth members of Venturing Crews, which as we've pointed out are youth 14-21. The members of Venture Patrols are Boy Scouts, because, as we pointed out, Venture patrols are just special patrols within troops. "Varsity patrols are no longer patrols that are associated with Troops but used to be analogous to Venture patrols. " Not quite. National rolled out in 1989 a pair of related programs for older boys in Boy Scout Troops: Varsity Teams (NOT to be confused with Varsity Scout Teams) for boys wanting to do sports, and Venture Crews (NOT to be confused with Venturing Crews, which came later) for boys wanting to do high adventure stuff. Due to the obvious confusion of these Varsity Teams with Varsity Scout Teams, that name was dropped, and Venture Crews could do either sports or high adventure. When the new Venturing program was rolled out in 1998, Venture Crews were renamed Venture Patrols. "Varsity Patrols are now more analogous to Venturing Teams/Crews but restricted to fewer activities." No. Again, there is no such thing as "Varsity Patrols" or Venturing Teams. Varsity Scout Teams are the units that make up Varsity Scouts. Varsity Scouts is a varient on the Boy Scout Program that is aimed at older boys (14-18) with some program tweaks to make it more attactive to that age range. One is changing of the group names (Team instead of Troop, Squad instead of Patrol) and leader names (Coach instead of Scoutmaster, Team Captain instead of Senior Patrol Leader). Because you are dealing with older boys, use of high adventure &/or sports along with the traditional Boy Scout program is encouraged. "Neither Venture or Varsity Patrols are coed but Venturing Crews/Teams may be." There is no such thing as a "Venturing Team" or Varsity Patrols. Its Venturing Crew. Venture Patrols can't be co-ed, they are just a patrol of Boy Scouts. Varsity Scout Teams are no co-ed. Varsity Scouts is a program within the Boy Scout Program Division. "Venture Patrols are the only one of these entities that are associated with a Troop - non-LDS(don't want to get confused with any LDS provisions that further convolute the issue yet.)" Correct. But don't make the assumption that Varsity Scouts are strickly an LDS thing. They ARE heavily used by the LDS due to how the LDS groups their youth programs. 12-13 year old boys are put into a Boy Scout Troop, 14-15 year old boys are put into a Varsity Scout Team, and 16-17 year old boys are put into a Venturing Crew. This is why the LDS charters the largest NUMBER of units of any other charter org. In brief: Venture Patrols are special patrols with a Boy Scout Troop for boys 13 and up to do their own high adventure or sports activities separate from the rest of the troop. Varsity Scout Teams are separately chartered units of the Varsity Scout Program. The Varsity Scout program is a modification of the basic Boy Scout program aimed at 14-18 year old boys, with some name changes and inclusion of high adventure/sports to the mix. Venturing Crews are separately chartered units of the Venturing program. Venturing is the co-ed program for 14-21 youth, called Venturers. Each crew has a specialty around which a crew will build their program.

"Hockey is IMPORTANT and scouts is just . . . Scouts." That's because Johnny is so great at playing [insert name of sport here] that he will get a full ride scholarship to college and a professional contract to play said sport an be Set For Life. There is nothing he will gain from Scouts that will make as big a difference in his life as [insert name of sport here]. Is he going to gain any life skills or something he can turn into a career or get a free ride in college? [please note that the above is SARCASM!]

"Lisa, no Venturing Crews at Jambo. Venturing members can go as Jamboree staff only." Correct. In fact, the Venturing Division has manned a great booth at the last 2 Jamborees, as have the Sea Scouts. If they are Arrowman, the OA Service Corps is another option for those between 18-21. If they go to college and join APO, there should be an APO Service Corps at the jamboree as well. ANOTHER option is that if the boys will be younger the 18, they can go as Boy Scouts.

Can't answer about the strip, but the Centennial Recruiter patch would need to be worn ON the right pocket. Its not a strip, so its inappropriate to wear it below the pocket. (sadly, some boys just don't get this concept, and I occassionally see kids wear large patches below the right pocket).

As to the question of deposits... That's going to be up to the council, but I think in most cases if a replacement is found to take the boy's place, he'll get the deposit back. Beyond that there will probably be no special treatment of going on with the contingent with the new council. He'll probably have to be put on the list of alternates. After all, the new council will probably have all their slots full. Do they bumb a kid who is already going in favor of the transfer? Do they put the transfer at the top of the list of their council alternates?

A Jamboree trip is about 2 weeks or so. Depending on how your council does it, it will usually include 3-5 days of touring in the Virginia/DC area. Most councils will start promoting Jamboree sometime this year. Don't believe National has made available applications and the like just yet. Some ways to sell it. Get a copy of one of the recent Jambo souvenir DVDs and show it at a troop meeting. Gives a decent overview of the event. Having a scout that has attended it come and (as noted) show their Jamboree Stuff (patches, pins, photos, scrapbook, etc) may make scouts and parents have a better understanding of what an incredible experience Jamboree is. (may also be a good time to start working on getting kids from your troop to start taking advantage of council high adventure trips. If they aren't, they are missing out on going to places like Philmont, Northern Tier, etc.)

What's a "Red/Green"? Never hear of this here in Florida. Scout Troop will hold regular Court of Honors, which may or may not include a banquet of some sort. Usually 3-4 times a year. Venturing Crews will sometimes hold an annual awards banquet, Sea Scouts hold "Bridge of Honor". The time/place/theme of such events are ENTIRELY up to the unit, the councils have no involvement. Blue/Gold Banquets are Cub Scout Pack award events, usually annual toward the end of the school year. I am not aware of any scout unit doing anything special for Scout Sunday other then if their charter org is a church and attending a church service. Districts and Council will usually have annual awards banquets. As to Girl Scouts, I do know that some Girl Scout councils will have an annual award banquet or event, and will usually recognize the girls who got Silver or Gold at those events.

"As for a Cub leader being an SM of a Jambo troop, in my mind, isn't the greatest idea." It also won't happen. There are requirements for the 4 adult positions with a Jamboree troop. These include both mandatory and recommended requirements. As I recall of the mandatory requirements: Jamboree SM- Must have served as a Scoutmaster a certain number of years within the last 5 years. Jamboree 1st ASM- same requirements as Jamboree SM. Jamboree 2nd ASM- adult scout leader, any program. Jamboree 3rd ASM- adult scout leader between the ages of 18 and 21. A Cubmaster who has held no other scout leader position will only be eligable for the 2nd ASM position. And is going to be competing with other Boy Scout leaders. And will probably lose out.

A few comments. The fact that the "Venture" strip is still available is hardly proof. There are scout shops still selling "Venture Crew Guide" paatches, when that position was replaced with just patrol leaders back in 1998! (ten years ago!!!). Beaver is right that over the last 4-5 years National has more and more de-emphasising the Venture patrol, and taken away the pins and letters, which are now exclusively for the use of Varsity Scouts. I've heard rumors of the demise of the Venture Patrol since 2001, and have YET to see ANYTHING official to that affect. But the general lack of info on the program leads one to think... I've heard of no rumor of lowing the upper age limit of Boy Scout troops. To be honest, I am for it, but would set it to be 14. In most countries, "Boy Scouts" (which in many places, not all, is co-ed) ends at 14, at which point the boys/youth must move to the 'older youth program' which may be called "Venture", "Venture Scouts", "Venturing", "Explorer Scouts" or the like, until 18, at which point they can be either adults or go into a Rover program (or equiv). I really, really, really wish the BSA would end Boy Scouts at 14, at which point boys can go into Varsity Scouts if they still want to do 'boy scouting', or go into Venturing or Sea Scouts. This would really end the nonsense of Venturing 'stealing my boys', and give the older boys a more age appropriate program, rather then have them tied down to a scout troop with 11-13 year olds.

"If the uniform originaly came from National Supply without the American flag on it - it stays off of the uniform. According to BSA rules, we can not alter the shirt by adding the flag (USA or any other) to the shirt." Oh? By that logic you can't add council strips, unit numbers, office patches, patrol patches, event patches, rank patches, etc, because the uniform didn't come with those on it and adding them is altering the shirt. Give me a break! The American flag patch coming on the uniform is mearly a conveniance (I wish they would also add the World Crest. Other scout associations actually embroider it on their uniforms). The flag is optional. If you have a valid reason to remove it, you can do so.

"The Three Levels of Boy Scouts (taken from the Scout Handbook): "New Scout Patrols "Experienced Scout Patrols "Venture Scout Patrols " It's "Venture Patrols", never 'Venture Scout' or 'Venture Scouts'. However, I have had some leaders claim that National has gotten rid of Venture Patrols, but I have yet to see evidence of this.

Well, it gets worse then that. When Venturing was rolled out, one of the early things rolled out was the requirements card for the Scouters Training Award and Scouter's Key for Venturing leaders. On it, it listed that Venturing leaders had to attend Venturing Roundtable &/or Venturing Officer Association meetings to met one of the goals. But it would be several years before a Venturing RT Guide came out. And when the Venturer Handbook came out, no mentioned was made of "Venturing Officer Associations", and instead it spoke of "Teen Leader Councils" (with the additional 'option' that COUNCILS could have these TLCs include older Boy Scouts, Varsity Scouts, and Explorers, kind of diluting them as 'venturing youth councils'). But by then, most people have been using the term VOA (or in some cases 'Venturing Cabinet' or the like). Heck, the National group is called a National Venturing Cabinet. I've never understood the logic of TLC instead of VOA, nor the idea of having BS, VS, and E being allowed in TLC (where I've always feared they would dominate the Venturers). Who knows why these things were done?

Keep in mind that few people are aware of any name change. The office patches STILL say "Venturing Roundtable Commissioner" and "Venturing Roundtable Staff". To me, its like the fact that the Venturing Handbook talks about "Teen Leader Councils", but most people call them Venturing Officer Associations or the like.

"Are you saying there is one and only one edition of the Forum Guide? " Yup. To be more specific. The Venturing Roundtable Guide (#34342) came out in 2000. There have been no updates to it since. The "new" Venturing Monthly Program Forum (#34342) came out in 2007, and like I said, is about 99% (as I recall) what was in the VRTG.

Very nice article. But please emphase to your council that you are a "Venturing Crew", NOT a "Venture Crew".

We should be so lucky as to get 3 years worth of Venturing RT (SORRY, Venturing Monthly Program Forum) material. AFAIR, the VMPF has about a year's worth of material. But I guess if your council does quarterly Venturing RT (SORRY, SORRY, Venturing Monthly Program Forum), then 12 months can be stretched over 3 years.

"There are no rank requirements for the position of SPL or any other position for that matter! Except JASM!" There is no rank requirement for JASM (or any other position). There IS an AGE requirement for JASM. I believe its 16. Now, some troop DO set a minimum rank requirement for certain leadership positions. Nothing says they can't (AFAIK, National recognizes that this occures, they do not forbid it, but I think recommend it not happen).

Well, they did better then that. Both the Venturing RT Guide and the Venturing Monthly Program Forum books have the same number. They didn't even bother to add a letter at the end like they usually do when they give the number to a new title. I have the VMPF book and compared it with the V RT Guide. Its about 99% the same. I figured since it was 'new' it would have new material. I have no idea the logic behind the rename.

First off, if you are considering going on staff for the first time, I recommend you get on one of the various email lists aimed at such. This can be a great source of information for the newbie. I've been to several National Jamborees, and always found such lists of value. There is one over on Yahoo Groups that should be good. I can't speak of the pros and cons of going as youth staff vs. going as part of a troop contingent. I personally would lean toward the troop contingent, especially if he's never gone to Jamboree. Yes, going with the contingent will be more expensive, and he may not be excited about the touring, BUT he will get the FULL Jamboree experience which as a youth staff he won't really get. As a staffer he will get time off. How much will depend on the job he has. At a minimum he will get 2 days off. Whether that's full days or half will depend. As a staffer he WON'T be able to participate in the various activities areas. Those are for the participants. He will be able to take in the exhibit area, Environmental & Conservation area, the shows and more. There may be some special things for the youth staff that would make that attractive (only been adult staff, so can't say), but those are things to keep in mind. If he had already been a youth participant and wanted to go back as a youth staff, I'd say go for it, but would recommend not missing the chance to go as a participant. FWIW, I went as a youth participant in 1981, and returned as an adult staffer in 1989, 1993, 2001, and 2005, and plan to again return in 2010.

John-in-KC pretty much covered thing, but will add/expand on things. Training is vital, for both youth and adults. Make sure you make available the Venturing Leader Specific Training asap for these adults. Be sure the crews are aware of the on-line (also now on CD) Crew Officer Orientation to get their crews off to a good start. The idea of doing VLSC (Venturing Leadership Skills Course) for all the crews is another good idea. Have it run by good adults with the intention that following years it be youth run (by the graduates of this course). Doing VLSC all together will also get the crews to met one another. Be advised that VLSC is for the ENTIRE crew, not just the crew leaders. In future years you can expand upon training, by adding in stuff like shooting and climbing training. Consider a district Venturing roundtable, at least 4 times a year. Crew youth leaders are welcome to come. (get the Venturing RT Guide, now recently renamed Venturing Program Forum or something). VOA is "Venturing Officers Association", NOT "Venturing OA". The VOA is a district or council group made up of crew officers or representatives from all the crews in the district or council. The purpose is to give the youth a forum to met, share ideas (give a chance for 2 or 3 crews to do a joint activity), and ideally plan and carry out district or council-wide activities for Venturing. Unlike in Cub Scouting and Boy Scouting, Venturing events ideally should be planned and carried out by the Venturings (with adults advisement and assistance).

"As others have posted I am looking for definitive uniform guidance of the Red Jackets. "If none exists I would see no reason why (within reason) Council, pack/troop numbers and temporary patches could not be displayed on the red jacket." It DOES exist, and is in the Insignia Guide. Briefly: * Universal BSA emblem on the left pocket (or that area on a red jacket that doesn't have a pocket, like the nylon jacket). * Philmont Bull, Sea Base Conch or Shark, OR Northen Tier Loon above the left pocket. * ONE (and only one) large jacket/back patch on the back, centered. Could be OA, Jamboree, NOAC, High Adventure, etc. * ONE high adventure (or PTC) patch on the right pocket. And that's pretty much it. No CPS, no unit numbers, no american flag, no covering the jacket and sleeves with patches. (this is NOT a 'patch jacket', which is how the red vests are treated).

Would agree with Pack378. Keep in mind that with the red jacshirt or red nylon jacket (the official jackets), one does not wear council strips or unit numbers. By and large when I see units out in cold weather, the choice of winter jackets is more personal preference. Putting insignia on them would, I think, for most people limit them to 'scouting stuff' only. In my area, the concern is more with rain gear, and I see a wide range of choices being used. A no one wearing insignia on them. Now, I do happen to have a red rain jacket (no guesses why I choice that color) that I use on scouting events, but never put insignia on it, as I used it for non scouting stuff.

Building on what BrentAllen posted, the idea of WB is to show the participants how the scouting program works from the YOUTH perspective. They start as Webelos, cross over to patrols under a troop guide, etc etc. As noted, the course models an ideal scout troop. For some leaders, it can be a real shock, especially if they come from poorly run (for what every reason) troops.