emb021

BadenP- For your information, the OA Indian Village DID run the Indian Lore merit badge at the 2001 Jamboree, and AFAIK, at the 2005 Jamboree. I did not get into details as to who was doing what (ie, who was being an official MB counselor), or who was signing things off, but the OA members, both youth and adults, were involved in this.

I was part of the OA Indian Village at the 2001 Jamboree. So this is based on my experience then. Things may be different for 2010. We were all on duty every day, but 2 which we had off. The morning we all danced in the arbor at the village. Afternoon was spent in another tent doing craft demos (basically most of us were doing stuff on our outfits, allowing people to drop by and chat with us on what we were doing). We also ran the Indian Lore merit badge, so we had a 4 day rotation, where by a group of us were responsible for helping out with Indian Lore merit badge on certain days. (basically, 3 days of doing dancing/craft work, 1 day of working merit badge, then a day off, repeat). 2 days we had an evening Pow Wow. 2 other days, we had to all pile into buses to go do dancing at other locations (there are many regional show areas around the Jambo). In 2005 (I wasn't part of the village that year), it looked like they made some changes to the merit badge side of things, as I saw they had various model villages setup for different cultural areas (Southeast, Eastern woodlands, plains, pacific northwest, etc).

I've used Eureka for years. Heard good things about Alps. Kelty is ok.

I kind of have to agree with OGE. Why is this a crew? Also, who says the adult basic training must be done all at once? Nothing says you couldn't give each session separately.

Have you actually been picked for staff, or are you still awaiting a position. "Need to know such things as uniforming needs" You need about 2-3 full uniforms. Plan on wearing them some time. Depending on your position, you will probably be in 'class b'. "sleeve idents" As staff, the only thing you will add/change on your uniform is add the Jamboree patch above the right pocket. If you council issues a JSP for its staff (many now issue JSPs for specific jambo troops), feel free to wear that in place of your csp. Other then that you don't make any other changes. Don't change your unit number, don't change your office patch, etc. "schedule for reporting" If you got your staff appointment, you should have been told when you will report and can leave. Depending on your staff position, your reporting can be anywhere from a couple of days to almost a week before the jamboree begins. Most will leave the day after the youth do, some may leave 2-3 days later. does this help?

"The son asked my why all the American are so old. Of course we know that the typical "career track" for most BSA volunteers is to become involved when their sons reach Scouting age. Not too many folks stay active from youth straight through." Quite true. As you noted, most leave for college at 18. Others often leave to start lives/families, and come back (maybe) when their kids join. And some of those leave when their kids do. There are the odd youth who still stay involved when they age out, but they are usually the exceptions. "Scouting in America has been a capitalist enterprise from the beginning. The story of the Unknown Scout is largely bull. Boyce was a publisher and went to London looking for new material. He clearly saw "scouting" (small 's') as a way to tap the market for boys books. Initially, all the money was in the books." Except that Boyce made NO money from scouting. He wasn't a BOOK publisher. He published weekly papers. In fact, the BSA was a drain on him, as was the Lone Scouts of America, which was probably the main reason he allowed it to merge into the BSA. So where was the money??? If you study Boyce, you see he saw the value of the program for he many newspaper boys selling his papers (who became his Lone Scouts), not as a money-making venture. "I rather imagine the early days in the US like the dot-com bubble a few years ago. Lots of start-ups to begin with, merging, consolidating, disappearing, until the market leaders rose to the top. Beard, Seaton and the YMCA all had similar programs which merged into Scouting." Maybe so, but I doubt any where doing it to make money... " Beard's program (what was it, Daniel Boone Boys?) was helped along as a column he wrote for Ladies Home Journal." Sons of Daniel Boone. But was he or anyone else making money off it? There were no books, manuals or stuff to sell. Ditto Seton's Woodcraft Indians. "William Randolph Hearst (another publisher) ran a separate scouting organization up until World War II." Nope. Hearst was involved with the American Boy Scouts, but dropped them early on. They became the United States Boy Scouts and were shut down around 1917. There were no rival scout orgs after WWI, unless you count the Woodcraft Indians or the Salvation Army's Life Saving Scouts (not sure when they were shut down).

Did anyone else read this and have some concerns: "Not SM who is questioning son. It is a member of committee, advancement chair. Want to defend SM, he has been good. SM approved it during SMs conference, son went before board and they approved, board member who wasn't there (one in charge of records) informed that it wasn't done correctly." Sorry, but it sounds to me like you have an advancement person who is a little out of control (or doesn't understand how things work). As I understand it, your son used the position of Den Chief for his POR for rank. The SM signs that off, and its based on your son doing that for the period required. There is NO 'form' or 'worksheet' for Den Chief or ANY position. Once the SM signs off on the position, that's that. So I have no idea where this person is coming from in claiming it 'wasn't done correctly'. A board of review is an ad hoc group (its created as needed). So you can't have a 'board member who wasn't there'. If this person wasn't present, they weren't part of the BOR. End of story. If this advancement chair thinks that being advancement chair makes them an automatic member of BORs, they are incorrect. As 'keeper of the records', the only records that are important are the advancement reports sent in to council. So I'm not sure what the issue is or why they are hassling your son or there was some need for a meeting to hash things out (other then to get this person in line). Now, please understand that my comments are based on your original post and an assumption of what happened based on similiar incidents we read about. hope this helps.

To add to the comments, the job of a Den Chief entails them working with a SINGLE and SPECIFIC Den. That could be a Den of Wolf Cub Scouts, Bear Cub Scouts, or Webelos Cub Scouts. So they really don't work with just any random Cub Scouts, but the Cub Scouts in their Den. Also, there are different cords for a Cub Scout Den Chief vs a Webelos Den Chief.

"If one were to do a truly historical event the public would be appalled." Hmmmm. Am reminded of an issue of Neil Gaiman's "Sandman" comic. One of the recurring characters was an immortal who was born in the middle ages. In one issue, he was shown in modern times with his then-current girl friend going to a Ren Fair. His comments were interesting. He was saying if they wanted to be "really" authentic, they ought to spray everyone with **** , and everyone was too healthy compared to people of that time, who many times were sickly, had boils and other things. I've also heard of people being upset when re-enactors tried to more correctly show the slave trade (such as slave auctions). The worse were the african-americans who protested it. You'd think they'd want this, to show to people how horrible it was.

The article says they will be offered in proof & uncirculated, which is the norm. No word on the cost, but proof are more costly then uncirculated.

"As long as you've earned it: Wear what you want, when you want." Sorry, but there are uniform regulations. There are some items that really should only be worn at formal occasions (ie, all the medals), and others only on civilian wear. If you don't want to wear something, that's fine. But there are times when you really shouldn't wear some items.

Well, I've long wanted a red wool jacket, but as it doesn't get as cold as it used to here in Florida, and I didn't want to pay for a new jacket I'd only wear a few times, I kept an eye on eBay. Finally got one my size. there were several patches on it, plus an oil stain on it (I think from whetstone oil). Did some dry cleaning on it to get most of the oil out, and removed the patches and put what I wanted on it (OA jacket patch on the back, philmont bull on the front, sea base with 2 segments on the right pocket. Generic jacket patch was already on the left pocket).

"After 10 years of reenacting, VERY FEW reenactors are, or try to be, authentic." Oh? After 20 some years of re-enacting, I find that MANY reenactors try to be authentic. The better ones have large, personal libraries of resource materials, including lots of pictures of period items. And these people help those re-enactors trying to be authentic. Yes, sadly, there are some re-enactors who don't do a very good job, and some are just horrible. I'd like to think they are the minority.

It is VERY appropriate for adults to wear the Eagle Medal at formal occasions (COH, Council Banquets, etc). The only time its an issue is when some wear it for NON formal occasions (meetings, roundtables, etc). Same goes for other youth awards such as QM, Ranger (old and current), Silver (old and current), etc.

There is the Eagle minature pin, which is appropraite for a coat lapel. Wearing the medal itself is just fine as well. Many of the medals are on neck ribbons, all of which may be worn with civilian attire.

You need to check the Guide to Safe Scouting (its available on-line). It states that caravaning is NOT allowed. http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/GSS/gss12.aspx Under Automobiles, #10: Do not travel in convoy (see "Leadership Requirements for Trips and Outings," No. 2). Leadership Requirements for Trips & Outing is here: http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/GSS/gss01.aspx What is expected, per this page is: * Meet for departure at a designated area. * Prearrange a schedule for periodic checkpoint stops as a group. * Plan a daily destination point. Hence, no caravaning.

"I just returned from a Powderhorn CDC and your your experience with the Venturers doesn't surprise me in the least. The level of discouraging talk amonst even, or especially, high level Venturers, excepting the Sea Scouts in attendance who were as professional at all times as volunteers can be, was EXTREMELY disappointing to a life-long Boy Scout/er. Any excuse to be differant and dismissive. If I were you, in my humble opinion, I would write an open letter to all 30+ leaders of those Venturing crews and explain what happened." mikeknr- I am curious/concerns as to what this 'discouraging talk' was that you saw.

I checked Mitch Reis's book, and per it, the horse head design for the Artist badge was used from 1967-71.

"No one said the SE was omnipotent only that the system currently in place with BSA SE's and higher make it very hard if not impossible to remove them, short of criminal behavior, if he is bringing the council to financial ruin. This is especially true because by the time the "lowly scoutmaster" finds out it is usually too late for any corrective action. It is a nice idea indeed to "take back the organization" however the top dogs have themselves pretty well fortified against such a move." I don't disagree with the issues, but wouldn't call it an 'old boys network'. I am a member of several other organizations. In those, we have paid professionals who handle certain tasks, but its clear that the MEMBERS run the organization, NOT the professionals. I don't have to be fearful of the professionals, as I know THEY (ultimately) work for me. (compare that with the BSA where it seems you need to kiss up to professionals to get your foot in the door at the higher levels of the org) Sadly, West setup the BSA such that the members (we volunteers) don't run it. Instead, the power was supposed to be in the hands of Charter Org Reps, who seldom use their power, and so its been left to the professionals to run the show. When most people know who the CSE instead of the National President, that should show you who runs things. How many people can name their SE more readily then their council president? Heck, the BSA even has materials written along the lines of 'hey you volunteers, here how you need to be acting toward the professionals'. It should be 'hey you professionals, keep in mind the volunteers are your bosses.' To me, it would have to take a total revamp of the BSA organization to put the power in the hands of the members, where it should have been in the first place but never was. That will never happen.

"If I were on the NATIONAL committee, I would NOT try to create a national definition of active, rather I would provide units with guidelines for reasonably defining the requirement for their units." This would be my preference. My Fraternity leaves it for each Chapter to define what ITS active requirements are and their pledge requirements (tho they should be in-line with our National Pledging Standards). But chapters can vary WIDELY on the amount of basic parts of active/pledge requirements such as meeting attendence, service hours (we ARE a service fraternity), event attendence, etc. So why can't troops? Heck, it would be easier to allow for troops to do this. You don't like troop X's active requirements? Go to troop Y. Maybe if troop X looses too many prospective members, maybe it's change its requirements (or prehaps the requirements work just fine for its members, thank you very much). This is harder with my Fraternity, because unless you plan on changing schools, you're stuck with the requirements at the chapter at your school... National could simply set down some basic guidelines so some units don't go overboard, require that they be set down in writing and all new members are told what they are. Then if anyone tries to appeal, its simple: 1) are their requirements in line with the national guidelines? 2) where the requirements set down in writing? 3) where the parents/scouts told the requirements in advance? If the answer to all these is YES, appeal is denied. End of story.

"The time frame for being active for rank advancement is the same as the time frame for the POR for advancement. If a scout fulfills the requirement for the POR he most likely had to be "active" in the troop (aside from Den Chief). " No. Then the problem becomes 'did he do his job in the POR', or just hold the POR for X months. Too often you see postings where the youth didn't do their job, and then the scoutmaster wouldn't sign off on the position when it came up for review/signoff. Its like no one thought about making sure the kid was doing the job, and if not, remove him from office before hand.

Thanks Eagle92. That was my point about Sea Scouts. The active requirements are built into the advancement requirements, so there are no such issues. Its been that way since Commander Keane developed the original requirements back in the 1920s.

Sorry, but to me "Active == registered" is a nonsense idea. Most organizations have the concept that "active" means you are ACTIVE with the organization: you attend meetings/events, etc. Not just that you'd paid your dues. Heck, most organizations have membership classes, the most common ones being "Active" and "Associate", where to be "Active" you must met a minimum number of requirements (attending meetings, coming to events, etc), which means you get to vote/hold office. If you can't met the requirements for active, you are associate. So, to me, to be active in scouting must mean more then just registered. Further, most state/national orgs that have local chapters (whatever they may be called), usually leave it up to each of these local groups to set THEIR active requirements. For whatever reason, BSA National doesn't seem to want to allow its units to do this. Sea Scouting avoids this problems by working into their requirements active requirements like attending a set percentage of events.

"I agree with Oak Tree and I doubt this came as any surprise to scouters in the council. When you don't support your council camp this is what you can expect will happen, and it sounds like it is way too late to try and save it now with all the problems the property has, the time for pointing fingers is long gone. This kind of thing is happening all over the USA in other councils, sometimes its due to poor council management, but in this case it looks like pure apathy on the part of the scout leaders was mostly responsible." Sadly, there are some scouters out there (and you KNOW you've met these in your council) who seem PROUD of the fact that they DON'T support their council. They seem to think that donations to the council will JUST go to salaries, forgetting that it ALSO goes to support their camp(s), training events, and other things the council does. They lose sight of the fact that WE are OUR COUNCIL. But I think some councils cause this themselves when they fill their board with just outsiders and not ensure their board includes some of the main volunteers in the council...

In my area, there are several large county parks with several caches (there are rules about how close the caches are). In some cases, there are enought in the large parks that one could spend the day just looking for them in that park, hiking around. We have a series of caches setup on a canal levee. Only way to get to them would be to either hike or bike (bike is better). There are about a dozen in this series. GPS & Orienteering aren't QUITE the same. Orienteering using a compass, not a GPS. Also, some caches make use of puzzles and such, which can make them more interesting/challenging.