emb021

"Someone please show me where it states a Scout or adult volunteer is REQUIRED to own the uniform to be a member of the BSA? " You won't find it. You will find in certain cases that you will be told that wearing the uniform is required for certain events/activities (ex: Jamboree). But your are not required to have one to be a member.

"So it really does depend on the Troop and how the uniform integrates into their culture. For our Troop, requiring a full uniform for a BOR is not an added requirement - it's just the way it is." It was true for my old troop as a youth & boy scout leader- BOR were done at meetings. Boys were expected to be at meetings, hence boys would be in full uniform at BOR. A non issue. (we never required the bringing of sashes, books yes, but again they were expected to bring them to meetings). EBOR is a different kettle of fish, as those are done at a separate time/place from meetings, but most make it clear that either a uniform or dressing nicely (business casual at least) is expected.

Maybe this will help. requirements for Whittlin' Chip: In return for the privilege of carrying a pocketknife to designated Cub Scout functions, I agree to the following: I will treat my pocketknife with the respect due a useful tool. I will always close my pocketknife and put it away when not in use. I will not use my pocketknife when it might injure someone near me. I promise never to throw my pocketknife for any reason. I will use my pocketknife in a safe manner at all times. requirements for Totin' Chip: This certification grants a Scout the right to carry and use woods tools. The Scout must show his Scout leader, or someone designated by his leader, that he understands his responsibility to do the following: Read and understand woods tools use and safety rules from the Boy Scout Handbook. Demonstrate proper handling, care, and use of the pocket knife, ax, and saw. Use the knife, ax, and saw as tools, not playthings. Respect all safety rules to protect others. Respect property. Cut living and dead trees only with permission and with good reason. Subscribe to the Outdoor Code. The Scout's "Totin' Rights" can be taken from him if he fails in his responsibility. As noted by NOW, WC is for Cub Scouts to deal with knives, TC is for Boy Scouts to deal with knives, axes, saws.

the holding of multiple positions should really only be tolerated in small organizations. If you have a large group, it shouldn't be necessary for someone to hold more then one position. this troop needs to get rid of their policy of not allowing a position to be given to someone else. taking on a second (or third) position should only be allowed in an emergency, with the intention that someone else be found to fill the position.

for me, it will be in my area in March, at a large county fair. My council is also looking for volunteers. it seems clear to me that the main audience for it are the NON scouting people, as a way to promote Scouting. So I think its important that we do have local volunteers to help out (youth & adults) to help sell our program. If some of the activities aren't as challenging as you'd like (the ropes course, etc), keep in mind that they probably couldn't be thanks to liability issues and such.

I checked my copy of mitch reis's work. The false sleeves were rolled out in 1916. Merit sashes were first used for the 1924 World Jambo contingent, then available for sale. They started crimping merit badges in 34.

Actually, FWIW I am a member of several national non-profit organizations which instructs its local units to file the 990-N stuff every year. The individual units are NOT registered as separate 501c3 groups. Its actually a piece of cake to do this. I have to do it for one of my groups, and it takes less then 15 minutes.

uh, why does he need it? Not aware of anything that requires it at this point, other then the National Youth Leadership Society, and other courses can be taken instead. The training syllabus was completed last spring. I was told it would come out last fall. I even have 2 of the pins that came out in August. Last thing I heard was it was supposed to come out in November. Still not seen it.

I do know that the Scouting Heritage merit badge will be included with the Merit Badge midway at Jambo.

"When you look at the picture from NJ (1911 top) you see how there was some lack of uniformity. The merit badges in 1910 were embroidered on square cloth; some scouts sewed them to their sleeve in that shape & some cut and tucked under the cloth so they were round. Also, I am not sure if the sash was yet part of the uniform, but I think it was." It was a while before the sash was an official part of the uniform. I want to say the 20s, but am not sure off the top of my head. Merit badges were worn on the sleeve. I don't know if there was any standard for sewing them down fully square, trimming them, or crimping them (folding them under). National actually themselves started to issue them crimped, giving 2 additional varients (wide and narrow crimped edges). Soon, National issues a 'false sleeve' so that the merit badges could be sewn on it, and then the sleeve pulled on over the uniform sleeve. As I understand it, some people were making their own sashes for merit badges, National found out, and I guess decided that was a better idea, so brought it out (and limited the number of merit badges to the sleeve to 6).

"As for the BA22 and JLT, upon reflection you had to have TLT prior to taking those courses, so you were already trained as a PL, SPL, etc." Its been a couple of decades since I was involved in Boy Scouting, but that's not what I recall. When the youth went thru TLT, they were ONLY trained for their particular position, NOT all of them. PLs were trained as PLs, nothing else, etc. As to course names. We have had National-created youth leader training since the 50s or so. In the early 70s, it was called TLD (Troop Leader Development). Brownsea Double-Two came out in the late 70s, and was actually one part of a year-long program called "All Out for Scouting". It was a scoutcraft skills course for SPLs, not a leadership development course. In the late 70s/early 80s or so, TLD & Brownsea Double-2 was merged into the weeklong Troop Leader Training, which later became JLTC, which later became NYLT. Many councils, I think in the late 70s/80s, decided to give their courses names rather then TLT/JLTC/NYLT, hence the proliferation of names like "Eagle Claw", "Brownsea", "Silver Acorn", etc. When NYLT was rolled out, these names were allowed, so long as you included "NYLT" as part of it. In the most recent revision, local names were no longer allowed. I think part of the problem is some people have NO IDEA the training being provided was REALLY called "JLTC" or "NYLT" or what had you. Sort of like if councils renamed their Wood Badge courses such that participants never knew they went thru "Wood Badge".

"Grant there has been changes in the training format with NYLT, but back when I went through BA22, and staffed JLT, we were told/told the participants that by compelting the training, they were trained for ANY youth leadership position in the troop. Grant you those of us who went through BA22 wore the BROWNSEA strips instead, but I saw most of the JLT folks wearing them at the post conference meeting." "So that has changed?" Actually, nothing has changed, but AFAIK, what you were told was NOT correct. Again, AFAIK, the youth were expected to go thru their position specific training to earn the right to wear the Trained patch, which was supposed to be the troop leader training done at the troop level, NOT by going thru NYLT, or JLTC or the earlier courses. Some people assumed this, and some people probably told the youth this. But I don't think this was backed by the literature (could be wrong, as I'm not an expert on boy scout youth leader training). This also, IMO, leads to nonsense like youth who hold no office position, but still wear a lone trained strip by itself. I've also seen this attitude amoung some scout leaders who assume going thru Wood Badge is some kind of 'universal adult training' and entitled them to wear the trained strip with any position. It doesn't. When I became a venturing leader, I did not wear the trained strip UNTIL I went thru training. I had a few comments from other leaders as I wore my beads, they felt I could go ahead and wear the trained strip. Today I don't wear a trained strip (haven't for years) because the positions I hold don't have a formal training course for them (but if they did, I've taken it. ) "you should not be able to simply purchase "Tranied" patches at your Scout Shop." Sure you can. I've never had a problem of buying trained patches at local scout shops.

The word is Rendezvous. I, too, like the term because as I noted, it was used a lot in the 1950s for Explorer events (instead of 'camporee'). A moot is the gathering of Rovers. Rovers are actually the NEXT section after Venture/venturing. Venturing is the equivalant to programs for the 14/15-18 year olds. Rovers (that term isn't always used) is the next section for those 18-25. Hence, I'm not too keen on its use in Venturing (I'd like to see Rovers brought back in the US). There was a major re-org at National last year, with a further shake recently. All the program divisions were killed off, along with the volunteer committees. So there is no one focused on venturing at the national level, either on the pro side or the volunteer side. The 3 pros who were the Venturing division are all in different groups. Keith Christopher is not involved with Venturing. He's part of the National Events group, and is the "National Sea Scout Director" (ie the pro overseeing the Sea Scout program).

Eagle92 is correct. Some addition points. This has been policy for a couple of decades at least. As noted by the policy (and in Eagle92's post), the youth is ONLY to wear the trained strip WITH the position he hold for which he's had training. This means that the youth is NOT to wear the trained strip by itself if he has no position (I see that too often). The idea is if he's PL, he can wear the trained strip IF he's been trained as a PL in Troop Leader Training (going to NYLT doesn't cover this). As to Venturing. In all my years I don't think I've EVER seen a youth wear the trained strip, tho they can. The VLSC strip is what I always see.

"Actually how about a weeklong Venturing Rendevous (or Moot, whatever is the proper term) in the years between NOAC and Jambos?" Actually, many of us have tried to get something going for many years with little success, in no small part due to no help from National. With the recent shakeup at National, that makes even more difficult. Its difficult to even get area or regional events happening, which why many such events are really just council-run events 'blessed' as area/regional events. (Winterfest, for instance, is run by the NE Georgia council, NOT the region). I am hoping that with the new Jamboree site that doing a National Venturing event (whatever it may be called) would be easier. When several of us tried to get something going a few years back, working out a venue was a major hurdle. (Moots, btw, are Rover events, for those 18-25. I personally don't feel that's an appropriate term for a venturing event. I do prefer the term 'rendezvous', as Explorers use that term back in the 50s, along with 'encampment'.)

"However, venturing is based on diversity of interests. There is no way that a scuba crew and a reenacting crew are going to find some common interest that will draw them together even within the same town." Not true. We've had many Venturing events that have a variety of activities and bring in a wide range crews/ships. IF crews/ships take a narrow-minded attitude of 'you must provide activities exactly tied to our specialty, or we won't come', there's not much you can do. But if crews/ships are willing to come to a FUN filled event with a variety of activities they can do with fellow Venturers, most will come. We had an event that brought out several crews, including one that was a scuba crew. We had NOTHING scuba oriented, but they had fun doing stuff like archery, COPE, etc.

"In the 60's a Scout needed to be Second Class to earn Merit Badges with some restrictions." In the 40s (this per my Dad's handbook), Second Class Scouts were only allowed to earn certain merit badges. No idea off the top of my head how things were in the 50s. I am always surprised by stories of scouters TODAY who seem to think that earning merit badges is limited to certain ranks, especially if they opened them up to ALL scouts in 1972.

Here is the announcement. FWIW, this is the event that my fellow scouter thought would be the selected event. =========forward message====== Announcing the First National Venturing Event The Venturing Officer Association of the Greater St. Louis Area Council is proud to announce that the Fall Fun Rally has been designated as the first National Venturing Event. The council is proud to sponsor this event and to open it up to Venturers from across th...e countr...y to attend. The Fall Fun Rally is the largest Venturing event held each year in the country. The Fall Fun Rally is in its 37th year. We have the facilities, the staff, and the experience to host several thousand Venturers for this 3-day event. In 2008 it was the Central Regions 10th Anniversary event for Venturing. Venturers from throughout the Central Region attended. This event is centrally located in the USA. The Fall Fun Rally is a youth lead event. The Councils V.O.A., the 9 District V.O.As, and hundreds of other Venturers staff the event each year. Venturing is many things, but of uppermost importance is youth leadership development. Planning for the 2010 event started at last years event. This is the first time that a National Venturing event is being done and it is the youth of the Venturing program that are doing it. We are honored to take on this endeavor. We thank our council and the National Office for the trust they have placed in us to accomplish this unique opportunity. We hope that this will be the start of more and bigger future National Venturing Events, but todays good news is that the first one is on the way. So lets get excited about it! Date: September 24-26, 2010 Location: Beaumont Scout Reservation, High Ridge, MO (Just 45 minutes SW of downtown St. Louis) Who can attend: Venturers, Explorers, & Sea Scouts along with their adult leadership Events from the Fall Fun Rally: Volleyball Tournament, Tug-of-War Competitions, Rifle Range, Shotgun Range, Archery, Climbing Tower, Slacklining, Wild Caving, Mountain Men Village, Blacksmithing, , Helicopters, , Kickball, Crab Soccer, Wiffleball, Dodgeball, Hillbilly Golf & Washers, National Venturing Fencing Competition, Pool Noodle Jousting, Police & Military Demonstrations, Table Top Competitions, Dutch-oven Cooking Competitions, Skit/Talent Competition, Fear Factor Event, Horseback Riding, Adult Venturing Training, Venturing Officer Association Elections, Game/Trivia Night, Movie Night, Twister for 50, Karaoke Night, Award Show, Dance, Model Rockets, Backyard Games, Obstacle Course, Frisbee Golf, Sea Scouting Activities, Drunk Driving Simulator, All Star Sports Challenge, Crazy Building Competitions, Dunking Booth, and much more. Check out our websites down the road as more events are announced. Websites: http://www.nationalventuringevent.org http://www.fallfunrally.org Join our National Venturing Event Facebook Group to keep yourself informed: Facebook Group: http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/group.php?gid=207652002378&ref=ts Mark your Crews calendar now to attend the first National Venturing Event. Registration and leaders information will be posted and updated through the website. Cost is just $15 for the weekend and will include an event t-shirt. We look forward to welcoming you to St. Louis and the Fall Fun Rally. Andrea Lane, Greater St. Louis Area Council V.O.A.Vice-President of Program and Youth Chairperson for the Fall Fun Rally Amanda Vogt, Greater St. Louis Area Council V.O.A. President 2008-2009 National Venturing President Matthew McGroarty, 2009-2010 National Venturing President

FYI- many Greek Letter Organizations have signs, and their members will make them in photos of them. So don't assume they are all 'gang signs'...

two comments. Allowing scouts below the rank of First Class to earn merit badges occured before the 70s. Back in the 30s or so, certain merit badges could be earned by 2nd class scouts, and later (I think the 50s or 60s) all scouts could earn any merit badge. The Advance Party report caused its own problems for the British Scout Association. Many scouters upset by the changes would go to establish the rival "Baden-Powell Scouts" and such.

We'll know Friday. I was speaking with another scouter about this recently. He thinks, and I agree, that most likely a large council with an already large Venturing event has been 'tapped' to make their event THE National event. Thus they already have the space and experience running such an event (IMO, the best idea. I tried to have an 'official area venturing event' in my area done the same way: 'bless' what was already the largest annual venturing event in the area as the official area event. But the PTB wouldn't go for it). He put forth a good candidate (its a central location). But rather not say to avoid any rumors or speculation.

All- The following has been posted on Facebook, and wanted to make sure people here are aware of it. The National Venturing Youth Cabinet have been using FB as their prefered method of communication amoung Venturers, and encourage the use of the National, Regional, area, and council Facebook groups. ======forwarded message====== Thats right. The National Office of the Boy Scouts of America has granted approval for a large council to host the first ever National Venturing Event in conjunction with the 100th Anniversary year. It will happen in 2010! The official announcement of the event will be made on the internet and this group is one of just a few groups that has been selected for the announcement. The date of the announcement will be January 15, 2010 at 6:00pm CST. We need to get this information to as many people as possible. This is where we need your help. We need to grow this group as large as possible in just a few days. Some people dont believe that we can pull this off, but we can with your help. We need you to invite all your Facebook friends (both youth and adults) to join this group. They do not have to be a Venturer to become a member of this group. The purpose of this group is to promote Venturing to everyone. Here is what we need each member of this group to do: 1. Go to the Venturing, BSA Facebook Group: http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/group.php?id=2207630622&ref= 2. Click on the Invite People to Join link on the upper left hand column under the group photo 3. Invite every single friend you have on Facebook to join this group. We mean every single person whether they are involved in Scouting or not. 4. Paste the following message into the personal message spot when you are inviting them: January 15th at 6:00pm CST, on this Facebook Group will be announced the information on the first ever National Venturing Event. Please join our group and invite all your friends to join so that they will be the first to know. 5. Click the send invitations button, and sit back and watch the number of group members grow. 6. Check back with this group on January 15th, 2010 at 6:00pm CST for information on the National Venturing Event. The countdown to the announcement: http://www.nationalventuringevent.org Please be part of making this upcoming announcement an exciting event in and of itself. And then come join us as we continue to work towards the success of the Venturing program. Yours in Venturing, Amanda Vogt 2008-2009 National Venturing President Matthew McGroarty 2009-2010 National Venturing President

"As I have mentioned in other threads, I am a strong believer that the professional staff should serve at the will of the volunteers and parents, rather than the other way around. Since we pay the bills, we should be the boss. But in too many cases the volunteers have allowed the professionals to act like kings rather than servants." While I agree with the sentiments expressed, the problem not that the 'volunteers have allowed the professionals' to do this. The problem is that the BSA is structured differently from other membership-based orgs. In those orgs, the members have the power. In the BSA, it was setup (by West?) to put that power in the hands of the COR, and in a degree with the professionals. Since, as noted, the COR seldom do this job, the power too often resides with the professionals.

"is it true that OA Indian Village is one of the hardest areas to get assigned to? I've been told that it helps if you attended a few NOACs and/or conclaves, and develop a good rep." Yup. It took me a long time to crack the AIA group at NOAC/Jambo. You have to get known by the right people, show your stuff at conclaves and maybe get asked to help out at NOAC. Once I did I was able to do AIA staff at a few NOACs & Indian Summer and do Indian Village. Then the AIA group decided they didn't like me and kicked me out. Go figure.

"Out of curiosity, how difficult is it for a youth or an adult to get onto OA Indian Village staff. I was told it is fairly difficult." Its pretty difficult. More so if you're an adult, as they want more adults then youth. It took me a couple of jamborees before I could get on staff (I tried in 93 & 97 without success). You have to be pretty knowledgeable about a dance style, have a dance outfit, and be able to do craft work. What was frustrating for me was that my area is southeastern culture (seminole/creek). There aren't that many who are knowledgeable about this area (am one of only a handful who instruct it in my section), and even fewer who wanted to be on the OA Indian Village staff, but it was still hard for me to get on staff. When I did it in 01, I think I was either the only one, or there were maybe one or two others, but I don't recall. So to answer your questions BadenP, ALL the members of the OAIA were knowledgeable enough to be MB counselors. Because you had to be knowledgeable about indian lore just to be on the staff, this was why they had us to the badge. However, I think only certain adults could sign off on the badge. But this was 8-9 years ago, and I can't recall all the details.