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Adding to what nolesrule said, Scoutmasters, Coaches, Advisors, Skippers, etc each have separate requirements to earn the Scouter's Key. If you take these positions, you can re-earn the Key, and this is indicated by the addition of miniture pins. Same is true for the Scouter's Training Awards.

"last time I worked camp, there were 4 catagories that determined who slept where. Under 18 in one area, 18-20 in another, 21+ in a third, and management/medic/chaplain in their areas. This was for a camp with only 1 female on staff, the medic." NOAC follows something similiar: under 18 boys. 18-21 boys. 21+ male adults 21+ female adults

"But it was an inter-patrol competition!" No, you assumed it was an inter-patrol competition. Part of the lesson of the game was to try to get across that each 'patrol' (could be any subgroup in any organization) is just part of a larger organization. When the different groups within a larger org are competing with one another (or in-fighting) the WHOLE org loses. "WIN ALL YOU CAN" is also "YOU ALL CAN WIN", which was a point make clearer in the NLS-version of the game.

There is a two-page document of youth leadership course revisions that was posted to the venturinglist yahoo group. There is a lot more then what SR540Beaver has posted here.

never heard of it. wonder if scouting magazine from the period ran an article on it, or if there is mention in the annual report?

I dropped by my scout shop, and they had the 'new' patches. They replaced the button loop. It looked like they snipped off the original loop, and added a new loop, attaching it with a firm piece of tape (ie, the loop isn't sewn in). I'll keep my originals as a collector's item...

"Once upon a time, Venturing information DID state that you can have all male, all female, or coed." Eagle92, you missed the point. Crew can be all male, all female or co-ed. That has never changed. The question was if this information is IN THE TRAINING. Its not mentioned in VLST. I just did this training in 2 councils, and it was very clear some of its issues.

Several mixed comments. "I'm pretty sure that Venturing training states that Crews can be all male, all female, or coed." Having recently overseen 2 sessions of VLST in 2 councils, I can say it doesn't. It should, just to help people understand the diversity of crews. "Not to mention the 11-year-old Tenderfoot Scout and the 20-year-old Quartermaster Award recipient." Just keep in mind that NYLT is ONLY open to 14-18 yo Venturers. I guess those 18 and up are SOL. "Why is YOUTH TRAINING seen as volunteer development? Is it not PROGRAM?" You're asking me? I have no idea. Its due to the National re-org. I still have no idea how National is organized now (I used to have some idea in the past...). ALL training, whether for volunteers or youth is under the same group. There is no program group (we got rid of the program divisions). There is a PPT I discovered on the National site on 'creating a training culture' that has one slide giving some info on the group this is coming from. The overall committee is the Volunteer Development. There are 4 sub-committees (called task forces). One is Leadership Development. I assume that group has further sub groups (for adult training, youth training, and maybe big courses like WB, PH, etc). AFAIK, this notice came from the LD Task Force within the VL Committee.

"When the "axe and log", "bead" game was played I could not believe that 55 people in that room had never played that game and what's more, didn't understand the impact of the game." Why are you surprised that people had never played it before? My first exposure to the game was when I took the OA's National Leadership Seminar in 2003. It's my understanding that WB picked up the idea from NLS. I then staffed 21CWB in 2004. The game overall went well in NLS, not so much in WB. My feeling was that the NLS staff were better prepared to run it then my WB staff. Its a game that really demands that the staff know what they are doing, and I'm just not sure that most WB staffs are really able to prepare for it. Since then, my Fraternity has incorporated the game into the latest revision of on of our leadership development courses which has become focused on conflict resolution (it used to be advanced leader with stuff on conflict resolution, and now conflict resolution has taken over that particular course). This revision was done around 2006/2007. Am sure they got the game from its original source. Also, fwiw, I've never heard it called the "ax log" and "beads" game OR the red and green game. Its usually called the "Game of Life" or the "Win All You Can" game.

Beavah- ALL training, regardless of program, are all under a single committee (or task force). I think its called 'volunteer development' (they have sub-teams or I guess sub task forces on stuff like adult training, youth training, etc). This is all part of Mazzucca's view that the BSA is all one organization, and stopping the program-specific silos,etc. But like others, I think to a degree that's a mistake, because it overlooks/ignores the fact that each program IS different and does deserve training that is a bit unique. What was great about Boy Scout Leader Wood Badge was it really pumped you up about Boy Scouts. Powder Horn did the same for Venturing. Seabadge did this for Sea Scouts. I bet Varsity Scout Wood Badge and Cub Scout Trainer Wood Badge did the same for their programs. Now we loose that. Heck, at PTC there are no longer weeks focused on one program. Venturing courses are now spread out all thru the summer, same for Cub Scout & Boy Scout training. Sorry, but as a Venturing leader, if I wanted to 'hang' with cub scout or boy scout leaders, I can do that at home. When I go to PTC I want to hang with other Venturing leaders from around the country to learn from them.

John in KC pretty much covered it, but basically Roundtables are ongoing supplemental training. Note that: its training. If its been turned into nothing but announcements, someone has lost sight of the purpose of it. Varsity Scout Huddles are just like Boy Scout RT, but they are focused on Varsity Scout Leaders. Venturing RT (now called Monthly Program Forum, but most still call them Roundtables) are different in that its for both youth and adults. So some will have breakouts for just youth and just adults, and everyone together. Its also a means for crew leaders to met each other and prehaps pool resources.

A training update did go out, but it went to council training chairs and NYLT, WB, Kodiak & PH CDCs. This came out last week. A copy of this was posted to Files area of the Venturinglist on Yahoo Groups. It shows that many of the youth courses will be changed. VLSC will be changed, I don't think it will be dropped. (I'd have to check the document). NYLT is open to all Venturers, and a program-neutral version will come out in about a year or two.

I've read that the National Capitol Council is setting up a lot of stuff on the National Mall in DC during that time. Check out their website. As noted, visitors can not participate in the Jamboree. They can check out the displays and such, go to the shows, but not participate. (only registered participants can participate). Also, you can't wear the Jamboree patch above the right pocket just for visiting. (they make a visitor patch, but it would be worn on the right pocket, like any other temporary insignia). Don't let your kids think they are 'going to the jamboree without being a paricipant' just by visiting.

First off, shortridge is correct regarding the place of Sea Scouts in the overall scouting program. Its totally correct to speak of the BSA has having 3 programs. Yes, if you look more closely, they really have 7 (Tiger Cubs, Cub Scouts, Webelos Scouts, Boy Scouts, Varsity Scouts, Venturing, and Sea Scouts), but we usually speak of the 3 main ones. Secondly, as to Venturing advancement. My council VOA has decided that the next Council Venturing Roundtable will focus on advancement. We'll go over the basics of the advancement, have venturers who have earned advancement speak on it, and more importantly, we will be recognizing 3 youth who have recieved the Venturing Silver this year (as well as any youth have received other Venturing advancement this year). Note, that this was the what the YOUTH came up with and decided to do, not what I suggested or told them to do.

If, due to a smaller class or what have you, a trainer is able to cover the course completly, and happens to do it in a short time, so be it. I have no problems with that. If, due to cutting corners, leaving stuff out, etc, a trainer comes in under time, there are problems with that. (and the problem isn't coming under time). There is a difference. I would think most of us would understand the difference.

The Venturinglist on Yahoo Groups has several ceremonies in their files area, including one or two for Ranger. If this advisor is not on this list, he's missing the major source of Venturing info out there. Does he not also check out the National Cabinet site and other Venturing sites out there? BTW, its "Venturing Crew", not "Venture Crew". Please also keep in mind that the Ranger Award is just one of the expert awards of Venturing. Venturing Silver is the highest Venturing Award, and is an award that all Venturers should be encouraged to earn.

"Does a grown man or woman really need to to agree to live by a "Trainers' Creed" to get them to do something that every Tenderfoot Scout should do automatically?" Considering some of the horror stories I see and hear regarding training, I think you do need something like this. A good example was one I heard of someone presenting a training session that runs 5 hours, and they did it in 3. Hmmm, think they might have skipped over stuff? And this was done by the local 'expert'. Riiight.

Sorry, don't agree. the BSA has had a 'trainer code of conduct' for decades. AFAIK, its printed in the Training Committee booklet. The fact is, too many trainers lose sight (or never had it) as to what their job is. Such code helps make sure we all keep in mind what we should do as trainers.

"I thought adults were permitted to were the Eagle badge at formal occasions, as stated in the insignia guide." They may wear the Eagle medal on special occasions, not the Eagle badge (ie patch).

Adding to what Beavah said. First off, there are the limits of the technology, something that many newbies don't get. On-line communication is often short and to the point. When you had to get on-line with a 300baud modem, and usually with no ability to edit (and forget spell checkers), the tendency is to be to the point and not craft a long and wonderful response. Twitter, with its limitation on the amount of text, is in some ways a throw back to this. (even on Facebook I've found problems with the space limits on wall postings). Second, I would agree that a big problem is many people think they know something is RIGHT, and will get defensive if challenged (fight or flight as someone said). We have another thread on BSA myths, and there are many. I know when I do training, fixing peoples misinformation and misassumptions is always a part of it (had to do it a week ago at Venturing adult training. Will probably have to do it again this weekend when I do that training again with another council). Too many people either didn't learn from their training or bother to read the materials, and so get bent out of shape when their misinformation is challenged on-line. (a big source of the 'you people are so rude' responses). I guess I'm a little different. No, I don't like being wrong. But I also don't like passing along wrong information. So while I don't like when its pointed out I'm wrong, its stuff I have to accept to ensure I'm not misinforming others.

I have not heard of any work on a new Fieldbook. Doesn't mean one isn't being worked on. The current one hasn't been around that long that a new edition is needed, I would think.

A good rule of thumb regarding patches is that if a specific location is not given, treating it as 'temporary insignia' is the way to go. Equipment, patch jacket (not to be confused with a scout jacket or jac-shirt) or patch vest, or patch blank are also options. I wouldn't be too harsh on John-in-KC. The policy of allowing temporary patches to be worn on the back of the merit badge sashes is a fairly new one. Wasn't around when most of us were kids. This was allowed about 10 years back or so.

I've been on-line for almost 20 years, a bit before the Internet was opened up to everyone. I have not seen an increase in rude behavior. I've had to deal with jerks on-line pretty much from day one. What I have not seen change is newbies coming on-line and mistaking basic, acceptable on-line behavior as being 'rude' or 'mean' (when it wasn't). The burden is on the newbies to learn what is and is not acceptable behavior, not demanding that those of us on-line conform to whatever their concept is of acceptable behavior. It's no different then going to a foreign country and expecting the natives to conform to your standards.

"The primary purpose of the Blue & Gold Banquet is to provide a "graduation ceremony" for the Webelos II's. " Saw that one claimed recently on another site. Here is what the BSA's Language of Scouting says: "A birthday dinner for Scouting held by Cub Scout packs in February to celebrate the founding of the Boy Scouts of America in 1910 and of Cub Scouting in 1930." My experience has been its the main Pack awards event, where ALL cub scouts are recognized for the awards they got up to that point.

AFAIK, its one of those 'scouting rumors'. I heard claims of this person or that person having it taken away, but AFAIK, its never happened.