Eagledad

Hmm, ok. Barry

Funny how we look at these things, I see a boys only program as quality time learning how to make valued decisions. It never occurred to me that a boys only program as safe space. But I can see why some here would feels good saying it that way. And, maybe it's the area we live in, but our boys and girls of this age spend almost their whole day of every day at school and church together along with many after school activities . Just how much more time do they need together to call it "quality time"? Barry

We required the same of these parents. Without getting into the long story, their lawyer persuaded us to find other alternatives. I know, I know, we could have done a lot of things. Some parents have more money than sense. On the positive side, the scout earned Eagle. Barry

We had this very situation with a challenging extremely hyperactive learning disabled scout. From bringing porn magazines to threatening other scouts with his knife, his behavior was challenging. The parents confided in us that they simply needed a break and we were the solution. As frustrating as he was, we felt a lot of sadness for the young man. Barry

I have been very impressed with the courteous and respectful manner in how you've handled the situation from the beginning. If nothing else, they are loosing the role model of an Eagle Scout. Barry

My kids would mutiny if their parents went to Disney without them. Barry

Maybe Boy Scouts is the new Girls Scouts. (thinking emoji) I'm not sure why liberal areas would sign up girls faster, scouting is a values program. Whatever the source of the families values, I believe most parents think of values as positive. But, that is just a guess. Barry

The Girl Scouts organization was taken over in the 70's by the women's rights movement and they lost their identity of purpose. Their uniform change ironically symbolized that loss. Our town has a huge 4th of July parade every year and the Boy Scouts lead it holding a 100 foot long American Flag. I don't really know the numbers, but probably between 750 to 1000 Cubs, Troops, and Venturing scouts leading the 4 hour parade. It's very cool. Right behind the Boy Scouts are roughly 75 (if that many) Girl Scouts in shorts and t-shirts. The only thing uniform about them is their sash, if they wore it. If it weren't for the signs on their float, nobody would know who they are. Interestingly some of the media today still portrays the Girl Scouts in their old traditional green skirts. Girl Scouts doesn't even have to be mentioned, the uniform is a give-away. I still rollover laughing when I watch the Girl Scouts in the movie Dodge Ball. But the uniform is much more than identity for the Boy Scouts, the uniform is symbol of goodness, character and integrity. It is a symbol of traditional ideals and values. Anyone ever heard of a Girl Scout walking a little ol lady across the street? Ideals and values require discipline. Discipline is neat and tidy, or uniform. Some Eagle here on this forum believes the uniform is changing because units aren't wearing them correctly anymore. For me, that is symbolic of the BSA loosing it's image of values and discipline. As our culture becomes more self-serving, the uniform will be indicative of those cultural changes by becoming less uniform. Still, I would be surprised if National changes the uniform too much in the future because it is a big supplement of their funding. Barry

I took the scouts home with me so I would meet the parent. The hard part about being the adult leader of any youth group is the disappointment of seeing other parents behavior. Church youth groups, sports, after school activities, and scouts; given enough time, parents show their worst. Of course there is the upside of meeting wonderful people as well. Barry

Oh! I see. You were being condescending and smug. Well, I complement your humility. Barry

Ah, finally. A profound statement that will be used in a lot of future discussions. Barry

The Girl Scouts wear sashes with their t-shirts. Barry

Sometimes making the effort shows a buy-in and commitment. It speaks loudly for a 20 year old jumping into a working team of 35 to 60 year olds. Especially if that adult plans a long career as a scouter. Barry

I’m also ready for a uniform change. There needs to be a clear line between the 110 year old traditional Boy Scouts program and the new family approach. The Girl Scouts around here like to wear tie dyed t-shirts. I’ve seen families wearing custom t-shirts at amusement parks. There ya go. Barry

Yes, if you want to get me lecturing again, just whine about sports taking away scouts. Our troop averages 60% participation at meetings during football and soccer season. 95% during the rest of the year. Strangely our camp outs average about 80% all year long because while scouts miss meetings due to practice, they work the camp outs around the games. Barry

Sadly TMSM, it doesn’t really get any easier because you get new parents every year. So, you need to learn how to stand your ground and to become a good salesman. Get use to selling your vision and program everyday, all the time. Learn how to kindly push back. You want your parents’ support because patrol method is hard and you need their trust that you are trying. That is important because some days you will do it wrong. You can’t change the program to fit every scout. That is when you are friendly, courteous and kind in standing your ground in saying no. You need your ASMs to respect your directions, even if they don’t understand, but you also need a CC who will tell the parents they are intruding. Never tell the parents to leave; just tell them your firm expectations. If they resist, ask them to call the CC. Finally, try your best to spread camp sites as far apart as you can to keep the parents away. As your program grows and the scouts have fun, you will gain more solid support, respect, and a reputation. Takes a little time, but you will grow into it. It seems to me from your posts that you have the qualities to be a great SM. Practice selling everyday. Barry

Unless the DL was already an ASM, they wouldn't know how. The ASM needs the skills to guide the parents as well as the new scout in the troop culture and patrol dynamics. The ASM and new scout guide work as a team with the objective that the guide will answer most of the new scout's and his parents questions. In our troop, the SM in training is the New Scout ASM. It's just how we do it. We also don't let any new adults in as leaders for at least six months so that they learn how the program works. I also learned that the new scout guides (or troop guides) needed the maturity of a 15 year old to be effective. In my experience, we never had a good TG 13 or younger, and never had one 15 or older who didn't knock my socks off. Barry

BSA's highest dropout rate is with first year Troop scouts. And from my studies, those actually are in the first six months. In other words, if the new scouts are around after six months (after summer camp) they will likely stay with the troop several years. We found the number driver one of dropouts is the sudden jump from an adult culture to a self-independence patrol method culture. The drop out rate isn't something new, I found it a problem as far back as I could find records, 1960s. The problem is boys lack of maturity for the confidence of making a lot of decisions about their environment. They are simply scared of the dark. We helped our situation by assigning a new scout ASM with the new scouts. Since new scouts aren't used to boys nearly their age taking care of the their basic needs like food, sleep, and PROTECTION, they find themselves terrified of the troop program. The ASM is an adult who eases them into the boy run culture. When the new scout wants to ask an adult a question because they don't trust the boy leaders, they ASM helps them (and their parents) by taking them to the boy leaders and letting them answer the questions. As the new scouts grow to trust the boy leaders won't let them die from bear attacks at night, the new scouts get more comfortable with the program. They start making decisions like how to pack for campouts and how to wear the uniform. Small stuff in the big picture, but big decisions for new scouts. Summer camp is important for new scouts because the week long outdoor program is where they develop the routine of boy scouting and patrol method. It's also where new scouts can learn to enjoy their independence by going about their day without being told by adults what to do. New scouts should have almost NO guidance or help from adults by they time they get to summer camp. If new scouts leave camp feeling comfortable about camping outdoors and the general order of patrol method, they usually stick around. Parents often tell us their son came back from camp a much more mature person than the one that left. Boys like activities that makes them feel good about themselves and that is what drives them to stay in scouts. We found the key to fewer dropouts is access to an ASM (adult) until the scouts get used to boys running the program safely. About six months. Barry

There are several reasons we were driven to this style of crew patrols, but yes, the scouts learn a lot. A lot depends on the activity and the adults advisers invited. Snow Skiing for example requires the adult who owns the condo the scouts use. Another reason we like these crews is any scout of any age can create and lead or organize the crew. We had a new scout who was a bicycle racer. He struggled to get invited on bicycling crews because of his age, so we worked with him to create the crew himself. One scout with a learning handicap was rollercoaste fanatic, so we helped him create a crew to ride roller coasters all weekend long. It was a popular activity. Everybody likes theme parks. During the hey day, our troop was averaging 6 adventure crews a years. And actually there we more patrols crews than the number of activities because back packing and canoeing activities limit the size of crews. Sometimes we take two or three crew patrols for the one activity. Each crew patrol will have a leader or organizer, but we also request one activity leader and Quartermaster to keep track of each crew patrol (mostly during travel). The Quartermaster is responsible for trailer loading and are the members with the keys. So, if a trailer is required, so is a crew Quartermaster. Barry

None at all because the crews meet outside of patrol time. They are members of two patrols. It's the same as most troops Philmont crews, they only meet to prepare for the activity. Barry

What do I think? Well, it brought to my knees. I crashed after round 2. Well, I actually only got 80% of round 2. My knees can't handle running, so I replaced the 400m run with 15 Burpees. I did this WOD workout after an upper body workout, so I'm going to try it again by itself. Wish me luck. Barry

The main problem with most Troops is they don't hand the keys over to the scouts. Why would older scouts be bored if they are busy running the program. Now I know that is an idealistic response. Some scouts don't want to have responsibilities, and some scouts just want adventure. But, the solutions to those scouts dilemmas can actually improve the troop program. I've said it many times here, the quality of a troop should be measured by the performance of the older scouts, not the younger ones. Self satisfaction comes from personal involvement and responsibilities. If the older scouts are bored, then likely the adults are compensating too much. We wanted our troop to provide more adventure than just the monthly campouts. So, we created and started pushing scouts to create and plan Crew outings. These are outings where the scout creates a crew outside the troop program specific to the theme. Once the outing is over, the crew dissolves. The scout is responsible for planning and finding the required number of scouts and adults for the outing. Philmont and Boundary Waters are included in the crew outings, but scouts also organized other backpacking, rafting, scuba and snow skiing. One scout organized a crew to go to six flags to ride all the roller coasters. It's up to the scout on the activity. It can be anything. There were no age limits to most of the crew outings, so any scout could join the crew provided he physically and mentally met the minimum requirements. So, the whole troop was involved in the adventure part of the program. And, the crews pushed the troop to have more adventure in the monthly camp outs. I admit, developing a mature older scout program takes some effort from the adults, but not near as much effort as starting a whole new Adventure Crew. Barry

I fully agree. We found that 3 out of 5 new crews failed in three years, and the 4th in 5 years. We had a saying in our district, if the adults can't make it work in the troop, what makes them think they can do it with a Crew? MattR hit the nail on the head; "This might require the adults to learn some new things as well". Barry

Yep, you are missing the point of the Uniform Method. Scouting is about making good decisions. What are the guidelines for uniform in the Scout Handbook. What kind of decision is the scout making if they choose their personal desire instead of considering the rest of the patrol and troop. Uniform has many purposes, including building unity with your fellow scouts as well as developing a healthy mind. Barry

Consider the respect from the experienced adults you will gain for the effort. Sadly, In the eyes of most adults, you're still just a kid. But, just showing a willingness to be an adult will gain you the respect that you can cash-in later on ideas and opinions on the program down the road. I wish the course wasn't so long, that has to be considered. But, I would think it's worth it in the long run if you plan on becoming a SM in this troop. Let us know you ideas for ticket items. Barry