Eagledad

Sadly, we live in a pop political culture where speech is very limited today. You even see it some in this forum. Not submitting to the trend would have likely been suicide for the BSA. But, someone has to point out the risks and I feel the it should have been the BSA. Still, as you said, I don't think National gave it a 2nd thought. It's on the volunteers now. It will likely be an issue on both sides. Anyone who hasn't experienced a call by the lawyer of a parent hasn't felt the full brunt of intimidation yet. Even worse, many folks feel the parents shouldn't even be involved. I don't even understand that. Family used to be everything. Barry

The tone of Scoutmaster conferences are a reflection of the Scoutmaster's personal vision of a scout. Their visions are as varied and different as their personalities. Scoutmasters can learn a lot from other scoutmasters in technique, but they can't hide the reflection. I've had many conferences with scouts and they never even knew it. Especially on drives to camp. I would drum up a conversation and we had good long talks. BORs should be the opposite. The 2 key requirements for productive BORs is a humble Scoutmaster wanting input from the board, and consistent BOR questions. A program shouldn't be measured from the review of just one scout, thus all the scouts should have consistent reviews, at least enough to measure program quality. A lot of adults who join the BOR are motivated by the opportunity of working personally with the scout. The challenge is that working personally with the scout doesn't always produce consistent questions. That's why at least one member of the BOR should be very experienced so they can guide the rest of the board to stay on track. Questions can vary some, but the intention of the review is quality control of the program, or more importantly, the SM. Us old timers aren't big fans of BORs because they used to be a retest of a scouts skills. Todays BORs are a layer of protection from the SM. But, the problem is that youth being reviewed by a group of strange adults doesn't generally help the scout feel free to speak openly. Honestly, while the scout who studies his skills the night before might feel some apprehension toward testing, he knew exactly the reason for the review and how to prepare for it. Most adults today don't understand the purpose of BORs, much less the scouts. So, the scouts are even more apprehensive because they can't prepare. I guide new troops to look for BOR test questions off the internet and issue them to the BOR members. They are pretty good questions and they keep the reviews consistent. Personally, I think the best BORs are run by retired Scoutmasters. They are most at ease and know what to look for in the questions. The questions aren't personal, but the scout feels a personal connection from the way the questions are asked. We asked older scouts to participate on our BORs (not in the BSA guidelines) because we wanted the Boy Run aspect all the way through the program. We found the presence of older scouts relaxes the inexperienced scouts. They ask the same questions as the adults, but like the retired scoutmasters, they seem to ask the questions better. Barry

I'm a little unclear, the reason I say the BSA should stay out is because they are not experts and don't any authority. While the parents were working with their child in therapy, how should the compassionate scout leaders work with the scout? What if the scout leader's compassionate mentoring is contrary to the therapy? Or is therapy crap also. Your attitude about this subject scares me the most because your opinion is set and closed. This is a very complicated subject and the point of the article is that experts are not getting it completely right. The BSA needs to stay away because many volunteers think they do have this figured out and already have a plan for working with the scout. This post is the most convincing of why the BSA needs to stay out of it. By the way, you have referenced your opinion of moral beliefs in other posts. Let's not change the subject in this discussion, but since your so open about your bias against other peoples beliefs and ideas, why don't you start a new discussion where you can get it all out. Explain what you suggest for those of us who don't have your beliefs of moral behaviors. You might even learn something yourself. Barry

I usually would meet with the SPL and ASPL to discuss the process a few days before. Someone mentioned there is some good literature on the subject. I've been out of the game for a few years, so I'm not sure what is out there. But, even with all the literature, we still developed our own style or process for planning, as most troops do. Simplicity is how I approached guiding the SPL to leading a planning meeting. Our PLC planned for six months. Actually we planned for a year, but since the next six months was planned by the previous PLC six months ago, we review the first six months schedule and plan the following six months. Much easier because the new PLC already is running with a planned program schedule. If something needs to change, now is the time. Anyway, we teach the SPL to go in easy stages. 1. Themes. The SPL goes around and ask each patrol leader for one monthly theme suggestion. The ASPL writes them on a big sheet of paper taped to the wall for everyone to see. The adults get to pitch an idea also. The SPL repeats asking for one theme idea until the group runs out of suggestions. By asking each patrol one at a time, he maintains control, where as if the SPL ask each patrol for all their ideas all at once, the other patrol leaders get board and start chatting with each other. One at a time and keep it moving. 2. The SPL ask for campout location suggestions. He again ask each Patrol Leader for their suggestion until they each give one. 3. Dates. Dates are the hardest part because so many other activities, events, holidays and so forth have to be planned as well. On the other hand, a busy month of holidays, shool events and other activities can make planning easier because only one or two weekends are even open. Our first few planning sessions lasted 4 hours. But after the PLCs got better at it, they manage to get the who'le year planned in less than two hours. The key is the SPL following a strict agenda with the ASPL keeping the meeting on pace. Also, the scouts learned to ask their patrols the week before for ideas of themes and campouts so they would have them ready for the meeting. Generally monthly troop meeting themes set the theme of the campout. But it doesn't always have to be that way. It's simple, but allow the scouts to be open minded. Also, it's good to have a discussion of the themes and campouts after the list is created to promote other ideas that can be added to the list. We learned to include the adults as one patrol during planning to help add fun ideas to the schedule. Typically it was the adults who suggested our first Philmont trip, Northern Tier and scuba in Mexico. Sometime scouts have to be primed of possibilities. Think big, the worst that can happen is they troop doesn't have the resources or time. Also, the adults can suggest the first-aid or pioneering type campouts. How about a shooting sports weekend of a water sports. Finally, back when these grueling planning sessions were four to five hours long, we created a PLC lock in so the meetings weren't limited by time. But as the meetings got better and much shorter, the lock-ins became a perk of being on the new PLC. They turned into all night video gaming. I learned quickly that a boys dream is all night pizza and video games. No sleep, just video games, junk food paid for by the troop and no lights out. I also learned to recruit a couple of dads to watch over theme while the SM went home to a nice warm bed. I got up early, picked up donuts and juice for the scouts as they waited for parents to pick them up the next morning. The boys were wiped out, but I'm told that everyone at school next Monday heard about the coolest troop in town. Back to your question: Brief your SPL to use the agenda so that he doesn't get lost in chit chat. Guide the SPL and ASPL to allow productive talk for a couple of minutes, but then move on and keep the meeting moving. I suggest to them that the SPL is leader of the meeting, the ASPL is the hammer that keeps the meeting going forward. Truth is that these types of meetings work better with a like minded team, but ASPLs like to be called hammers for some reason. You can have as many adults as you want, but only the SM can speak. And only when the SPL calls on him. The SPL always has the floor. But they will often need some guidance from an experienced person. You will be tempted to jump in, don't. Wait for the SPL to ask for your input. So, we find that only a couple adults even want to be in the environment. I always invited our previous SM and our camping ASM to the meeting because they usually have really good ideas. I've said a lot. Does this help any? Barry

This happens a lot with SM changes. I have helped and observed a lot of troops where the new SM wanted to change the program and I have learned that change pretty much comes from the new and younger Scouts. I now advise SMs in your situation to pacify the older Scouts with the program they want and build your new program with the new Scouts. Older Scouts (in this case 13 and older) simply don’t like change. Building new with younger Scouts is a lot less stress on everybody. It seems like two groups in one program will be a hassle, but you will find the older Scouts will pretty much take care of themselves. They will fall in for Troop assembly then go do their thing. The ones who want to advance will come to you. Ironically leaving the older Scouts to their program is the Patrol Method you are wanting anyway. They just aren’t great role models for the younger Scouts. In fact you can present the idea to them as an experiment and become the older Scouts hero. Trust me, they will love you for it. Barry

A quote from Toronto Gender Identity Clinic at the Centre for Addiction and Mental Health in the article: "We know from multiple studies that around 80 percent of gender dysphoric children will desist from their cross-sex identification in childhood to identify with their natal sex. Most of these will grow up to be gay or lesbian; a substantial minority have also been diagnosed with autism.".....................Watchful waiting, which was the treatment of choice for many years, has been dismissed as false and harmful with no evidence for this assertion. Barry

The whole tone of your posts in this thread is based on your opinion of whether or not these lifestyles are a choice. We can agree or disagree about choice, but that is not the theme of this thread. Accept for your comment about my opinion of scouters contributing to abuse in this matter, every poster has been respectful. Barry

What exactly do you need? How to train for the planning? How to do planning? Both? Barry

LOL, I'm being respectful using the common language of the subject. If you want to correct me, fine. But don't accuse me of disrespect. I believe my perspective is the compassionate side of the discussion. Barry

The discussion isn't about the youth, it's about adults contributing to the harm of the youth by accepting their transgender as normal. The youth may not understand what they are feeling, but putting them in situations they may later regret could cause more harm. Let's use your example, who put the youth in the tent where they had sexual activity? Families don't need scouting to get through this situation. It's politically correct to accept the youth at their word these days. But it's courageous to say, we don't want to be part of the complicated situation the youth is struggling through at the moment. Barry

There are many reasons for this situation to occur, but I once watched a very good boy run troop brought down to it's knees when the SPL and ASPL aged out of the troop. These two young men were fantastic scouts. They were my sons high school friends and even joined in on one of our Troop's Philmont treks, so I also knew them. They were also good leaders in OA. Where they failed the troop was passing the SPL/ASPL back and forth to each other for two years. It wasn't ego or anything like that, they were just good scouts who ran the troop program well and all the other scouts wanted to keep it that way. While they were leaders, the troop changed Scoutmasters and the new scoutmaster did what he was supposed to do, step back and let the scouts run the program. But where he failed was developing future leaders. The two scouts did everything so well, that they did everything. When they left, nobody wanted to step into those shoes. The reputation of their hard work was intimidating in of itself, but none of the scouts hand any real top level leadership experience either. This is one of the oldest troops in town and always had a reputation as a great boy run troop. To be SM was and honor. After the two scouts left, the troop lost 33 percent of the scouts. The situation verged on bit of a scandal for the chartering organization and the SM quit. The troop is back up to speed, but it took about five years to find the right SM, recruit new scouts and train the current scouts to lead. Actually, it took about five years to cycle through scouts who didn't learn to lead and get new scouts up to speed. All programs go through cycles. Identifying why and fixing is the hard part. Scouting is a game with a purpose. The challenge for adults is balancing the game and the purpose. We tend to talk about having too much adult involvement, but too little involvement can cause just as much harm. Generally leadership is actions intending to move a team to a goal. If members of the team don't have any responsibilities in the effort, they likely don't have a lot of pride in the team or the goals. Maybe the patrol needs some team building so every member relearns their needed contribution to helping the whole team reach a single goal. Accomplishment leads to pride. Pride in one self generally encourages a desire for more action toward goals. and one success leads to working toward another. I like to teach adults to work toward a program where the scouts go home saying "I like myself when I'm with the patrol". Team activities that reward success will raise up leaders. Barry

Which gets back to the subject of the discussion, volunteers trying hard to contribute possible harm of a youth. Why? Based on what, information like that from AAP? Barry

Until tent assignments are considered. Barry

I'm saying that by putting volunteers in a position to accept transgender scouts possibly sets them up as abusers simply by accepting them. Barry

My point has always been that accepting transgender scouts put volunteers in a position of possible abuse by encouraging a behavior that could be harmful. Barry

Ah, I see and understand. Barry

Here's another article of why I think a youth organization that supports transgenders is dangerous to the child. https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/09/pediatrician-groups-transgender-orthodoxy/ “If I had only found one alternative, authoritative source that told me the truth, I would never have taken her to a gender clinic. I would never have supported her social transition. I would have questioned this more. I am angry at myself for trusting groups like the AAP. I am angrier at these doctors for publishing this false and dangerous advice.” Barry

Hmm, ok. Barry

You are saying that if a scout comes to you to ask for advice, you are going to say no, it's not in my job description? Mentoring is not about forcing your choice, it's about helping sort out the complexity of choices. Ignore soccer, football, band, Troop, OA, piano, advancement, or even paper airplane class. Mentoring is the higher level thinking for searching the answer. Theoretically the mentor has developed mature thought process for making choices. Mentoring is guiding a development of a thought process for making choices. The mentor doesn't care about the choice, the mentor cares about the process to making the choice. Personally I believe mentoring is a process that builds rationalizing which sorts the complexities of choices to be more obvious. That doesn't make the choice easier, but it provide a base for making a choice. Barry

Responsibility is responsibility, no matter how it is titled. I'm guessing the responsibility is too daunting. One suggestion is scale back the program until the scouts want to participate. That would where the maturity of the scouts organization skills are matched with the troop bureaucracy. Then, gradually apply more responsibility to build back program maturity. Maybe the SM takes the part of the SPL for six months to get some momentum. Simplify bureaucracy. Brian and the SM should probably have the hard discussion of how the troop got to this point. Barry

As far as we know, nobody approached helping each other. My point was while cocomax was proposing the noble approach, the BSA took a different road. Barry

Fred, mentoring doesn't pick the subject. Mentoring is not active guidance of a specific direction, that would coaching. Mentoring waits to be approached. Mentoring is a torch that brings light in the darkness of confusion so that the choice hopefully becomes more clear to the mentoree. The mentoree's choice may not be the mentors choice. The power of mentoring unbiased guidance and no personal ownership of the decision. Maybe I should have used different words. Mentoring is valued hope for the hard choices during life's experiences. Most of the time the mentor may be unknowingly supporting the tougher choice, even though they didn't give any specific direction. How many times have we felt relief when making the harder choice? I guess that is the difference in us; For me, mentoring was the most enjoyable part of being a scout leader. Barry

Very nice post, thank you. Still, I wonder what kind of kids an Eagle Scout Father and an Gold Scout Mother would raise? I only propose that thought because the nobility of your post was lost when the BSA decided to change to the SA and not combine with the GSUSA to build better programs together. Of course such a suggestion would require a lot of courage from the GSUSA, but the leaders of the BSA admit their motivation is mainly self-serving. Barry

How many active scouts? How many patrols?