Eagledad

The only badge I encourage the first year is swimming because it’s required for most water activities. And, summer camps have pretty good teachers. I had several scouts start camp as a beginner and leave passing the swim test. Barry

True, but who goes where and when can be confusing for unit level volunteers. One example is the Webelos requirement to fill out a Troop application and talk to a SM. Not a big deal on the surface, but some Scoutmasters might submit those applications, not realizing (or don't care), that the Webelos is no longer a member of the pack. And officially the scout can no longer earn anymore badges, like AOL. Luckily, council goes in a fixes the problem. But, the numbers are shifted. That's not too bad, but where the numbers really get messed around are the new Scouts joining the troops. In reality, the scout submitted the troop application without ever showing up. That scout will be counted as a successful crossover and stay on the books for possibly up to a year. Same goes with Troop to Venturing. That can change the troop membership numbers as much as 5% in a district, and more in a unit. Add it up for a council, or even the nation, and it influences decisions. I know the Council Pros get acussed of fudging the numbers for their own benefit, but I always had compassion for them having to run around looking for the holes in their numbers. Barry

Good or Bad? The discussion isn't about making good or bad decisions. It's about the accuracy of information being provided for making decisions. Barry

We fully understand your pain the last few years. The difference between explaining the situation logically, or emotional, is the same difference as being scout-like, or not. Email might be a good segway into the discussion because it provides you the time to be pragmatic with your thoughts. Barry

Many here have expressed how the successful recruiting is motivational for progressing forward. Several have commented how they plan to implement the girls and the leaders into units, and types of units. Barry

And this is why I don't trust published membership numbers. I will even give the pros the benefit of the doubt and say there are no shenanigans going on, but the shuffling of memberships in different units at different times of the years blurs out reality. It drives the district member committees nuts, especially if when using the numbers to plan program gains and looses like Tigers, Webelos Crossovers, and first year Scout dropouts. I don't trust the new girls published numbers as a result of my experience. Just look at the discussions on this forum to see how those numbers are being used both tactically and motivationally for future planning. National got away with inaccuracies in the past because the deep pockets funding and large membership compensated for bad program planning. But the BSA may have lost their safety nets. Good luck. Barry

So very sad. I will say that I have felt hostility toward white and religious people from members on this forum. If it's here on this forum, it is certainly out in the community. Our troop once experienced this sort of tension when visiting a popular zoo in another state. In general, wearing the BSA uniform brings out the best of people we meet in our travels, but not during this visit. That was about 15 years ago. I can't imagine such a visit today. Yes, in the light of the scout law, we should probably prepare the scouts in how to respond to this sort of open hostility and confrontation. Barry

It was the brainchild of a couple of scoutmasters with a good reputation for building successful patrol method programs. The way it worked is after all the participants (14 or over) arrived at camp, the course SM asked all the scouts to create PLCs of 6 members. No scouts from the same troop could be in the same PLC. Then each PLC had to elect the SPL and assign a PLC position to each member. Once all the participants had a PLC and position (only took about 15 minutes), the SM gave a 15 minute lesson of how to run the PLC meeting that was also described in their SPL handbook. then they were tasked to create the course agenda for the next day that included everything from getting up to lights out. The only requirement was scheduling 4 one hour class sessions, 2 more PLC meetings and a campfire or troop meeting. Each of the PLCs agendas were thrown in a hat, then the one drawn out was the agenda that is used with that PLCs Spl running the agenda. It made for an interesting week, and the SMs gave the results rave reviews. However, National required we replace it with their brand new course, NYLT. And the experiment was over. Most of the staff were graduates from the National JLT course at Philmont. They had a blast playing the adult leader parts. Barry

Like all committees and organizations, the quality of performance is only as good as its leaders. An example of what the committee can do is how we approached teaching the new SM Specific course in 2000. Council presented the course when it was introduced to see how well it was written. It was terrible. Roughly a 9 hr course divided in three parts that had no flow and often contradicted each other. (I had learned later that the three parts were written by three different “volunteers “ authors who never met each other. They sent their parts to National who wrote the final syllabus.) Anyway, our council training committee discussed ideas of how to better present the material. We came up with several ideas for presenting the course better, which several districts (including ours) experimented with. And several good versions were discovered. Now, I know a couple of districts would have tried something on their own (including ours), but because council took the lead, all the districts were presented with the results of several different versions. I was also lead on experimenting with a new idea of a Council JLT course. The new idea was a boy run style where the participants developed the course syllabus and schedule each day. The course was replaced by NYLC, but I have not ever seen anything like it before or since. A lot of folks seem to be trying to fix a lot of problems on this forum lately. If you have the will and personality, council is one of many paths to effectively make change. Barry

You have the most leverage to make changes at the council level. But you have to have the respect of the committee.

Funny, I just finished posting on a different subject about this very thing. It's hard for the average unit volunteer to grasp the idea of incompetent adults being put in positions of responsibility. But, in volunteer organizations, it's closer to normal than you want to know. Just ask any church leader. Once you see it from the District and council levels, you start to have empathy for the paid scouters who spend much of their time cleaning up after these volunteers. Many DEs burnout because they would rather do the work for the volunteer instead of worrying if the work was getting done. Barry

Yes, there are all kinds of adults in volunteer positions. For that particular post, I was referring to adults who jump into a volunteer position purely for the stature of the title. It makes them feel good about themselves. You can find them in all positions in volunteer organizations. We talk about them a lot here on the forum in the CM, SM and CC positions because the level of responsibility is so high and important. But there are plenty of volunteers like this under the ASM and committee member titles. They likely don't have the skills for the responsibility, but don't really care because what they wanted was the title. They will try to perform to the best of their ability, but their skills fall well short. If left alone, they often do more harm than good. These are the volunteers that district committees seem to attract, I don't know why. I found they can do a lot of good when they are given step-by-step instructions. I was close to a situation where a district committee chairman was awarded the the Silver Beaver for bringing a complicated district program online. We all knew she was just a puppet for someone who'd rather stay in the shadows of recognition, but she did work very hard none-the-less. The Silver Beaver is the highlight of her life. Barry

Thanks, that fills in the picture pretty good. Some adults aren't cut out for the responsibilities of a Scoutmaster. And some of them just don't see it. I have worked with several Scoutmasters who believe, with all their heart, that the independence of making decisions in a patrol environment is the best kind of experience a boy can have for his future as a man. But, they don't have a picture of what that independence looks like for scouts this age. In many cases, narcissism drives them to some degree. While they nobly take the responsibility to better the lives of these young men, their egos drive them to force the scouts to perform to their vision of the ideal boy scout. Since narcissists generally believe they are always right, they aren't usually open to suggestions. They truly believe their way is the best way and will drive the scouts to think and do it that way. I personally believe it is mild form of mental illness. On the positive side, many of these leaders are good at marketing their vision and tend to build large units. Typically adult run Eagle mills, which makes sense. But successful none the less. Barry

Everyone here is ready to take this guy out to the woodshed, but I'm wondering about the rest of his Scoutmastering style. Do the scouts like him? Is he as controlling with the patrols as he is with service projects? Do the adults like him? Does he get along with the committee or does he run it? I'm just being nosy, I know. But we have been pulled into this drama to the point of testing our scout-like patience. What does the bigger picture look like? Barry

I have concluded that 50 percent of leaders volunteer for this reason. This is why I have so much sympathy for the DEs. Barry

Hmm, is anyone surprised that litigation is killing youth programs? Barry

Your troop is in a rut and needs a little outside shaking up. It's normal because the male human mammal is by nature...lazy. It's ok, that is our nature, I hear male lions are even worse. Lucky beast. But, the good news is we males are also attracted to adventure. Adventure can mean anything really; a troop doesn't have to hike the Grand Canyon for adventure. I have no problem with adults adding a little boost to the program when they do it passively. First off, change the troop meetings around for a couple of weeks. Meet somewhere else. In better weather, I like to push the scouts to plan something at a local park. Orienteering is really good because it makes the scouts hike off on their own looking using the compass to find the end goal. Which could be a treat. But this time of year, I might suggest a bowling ally or skating rink. Sure, why not. OK, you said the camp outs are boring. It's not that the adults don't have creative ideas, it's that you aren't sure how to push the PLC to try a few ideas. Call the SPL and ask him to allow you 15 minutes of their time. Don't tell him you brought a guest who is an expert in fly fishing, shot gun sports, rappelling, competitive archery, or even building hot rods. Then, go out and find that expert and come up with some kind of weekend activity that the troop can do two or three troop meetings to prepare for. We did this with Rappelling. We found a couple of rappelling experts who helped us train the scout for two troop meetings, then worked with us for a full Saturday at a state park where we camped. But you could do it with shooting experts or fishing experts, or whatever you come up with. Have your expert give a 15 minute presentation for the PLC and then suggest they kick around ideas for using your expert for a FUN campout. You can do this with anything really, but the objective is to shake up things to get the PLC out of their rut. Barry

Call a local troop and ask if they can help you. This is easy for most PLCs because they plan whole weekends of activities for the same skills. The Webs will enjoy older Scouts running the activities and the troop will look forward to new recruits. We pretty much let our scouts do it all without any adults. Barry

When our scouts earn their 1st class, they are eligible to sign off advancement if they take a couple of simple 5 minute training courses. One was writing a legible signature and date. Yes, that 5 minute course was a reaction. The other was a process for teaching. Basically it was: 1. Give your name, 2. Give the name of the skill you are teaching 3. Explain why and when to use the specific skill, and list the resource references. 4. Teach the skill until the student teaches it back to the teacher. I learned those 4 simple teaching guidelines at the old pre 21st Century Woodbadge course. When the Scouts were preparing for their EBOR, I usually suggested reviewing the "whys" of the skills since they couldn't be retested on demonstrating them. Barry

Sad to learn that because it means National lost the understanding of the structure for developing moral and ethical decision makers. Leadership is but one of many actions that develops a scout's character and selflessness. Like the GSUSA, National is actually diminishing the importance of leadership actions by focusing it into an outward personality trait. The reality is that leadership method will have lost it's importance in the development of a scout because now the position of leadership will be a higher priority than the simple actions of the whole team. The result is adults will make sure scouts are put in leadership designated positions. They won't earn the honor, they will be assigned a stature for record. Leadership actions in scouting were intended to shape and enhance character traits, not turn into a personality trait. Few realize that followship actions are just as challenging and as much of a character developer as leadership actions. The actions of Followship are required for a successful team in the patrol method, and a well rounded person with moral and ethical decision traits. What a mess. Barry

This is the primary place where BSA training has failed. First off, training sets the standard for the whole of the program. I used to teach District leaders that if the units are consistently doing something wrong, training is likely the cause. If a district wants to change consistent unit performance, they must do it through training. Second, modern BSA training gives a lot of what to do, but not the why. The old handbooks and training syllabuses provided a great deal of instruction that included the why. That is why you will find the best scoutmasters today generally have read and can quote from the writings of the creators of the scouting movement (Powell, Boyce, Seton and Hillcourt). Their writings provided purpose and methods to the mission. Because it's not trained, 90% of today's Scoutmasters don't understand the relationship between the BSA Mission, 3 Aims, or the 8 Methods. In fact, very few SMs can even say the 3 Aims, much less the 8 Methods. Without realizing it, Scoutmasters are the salesmen and saleswomen of the BSA, if not in their words, then in their performance. If leaders don't understand how the building blocks work toward developing ethical and moral decision makers, how can anyone outside-looking-in possibly understand. This is why Patrol Method as the primary rail to the mission of building moral and ethical decision makers is crumbling in the modern program. Nobody respects how the method gets a young person from point A to point Z. Barry

Excellent post AnotherDad. Good leaders have vision and a plan for driving the program toward that vision. But, a successful program includes excited parents and leaders. If the parents are happy, their sons are happy. Look at any Pack with consistent high Webelos Crossovers, and you will see a program with happy adults. When I started as a CM, our Tiger dropout rate was horrible and our Webelos crossover rate was less than 50%. Three years later, the crossover rate for both age groups was 98% . All we did was make a few changes to make the program easier and more fun for the adults, not the scouts. Barry

Hmm. Maybe a name change is due because what you lace all your posts with is not skepticism. I will skip most of your reply and go directly to the root of your ranting. and it's not just you, but a few others here also. It's the part where you express frustration of those who resist moving on into the new direction. Shesh, ever since you joined this forum, your angry posts have the appearance of an immature 25 year old without any of life's experiences. And that is who I send my replies. You could Knock me over with a feather when I learned you are probably older than this grandfather. Your frustration reflects snowflakes preaching Safe-places. Safe-places is code for "restricting free speech". Snowflakes would rather restrict speech than patiently listen and absorb because they don't have life experiences to have a dialoge with reason and logic. They simply lack the maturity to sit, listen, and seek a cohesive resolution. I've read several articles all suggesting this behavior is the result of the Smartphone. But you were weaned off of the old Bell dial phones. Not all change is good. From what I can see, nobility isn't motivating National's policy changes. Indications are the ONLY reason National changed direction is simply to survive. Not political correctness or to give girls a chance to an outdoor program or any other noble vision. The BSA is simply trying to survive by attaining more funds through a new demographic source of members. Can survival be a noble motivation? That would be an interesting discussion that might change hearts. OK, girls in the Troops fits your dreams, but surly you can understand why it's not the dream for many who through experience are married to ideals of a program that successfully survived for the last 100 years. Whatever successes you have observed outside of the program, how could they trump my successes inside the program? You should be empathetic to the resistance because change is hard and calm only comes from quiet voices of hope. I'm told by my kids that old men are set in their ways. But maybe not. In my religion, God teaches man humility, not pride. Hope is a fruit of humility. Maybe we can change simply by changing what we preach. Girls are here. Just relish in that change and set an example of quiet observance. If you have an antidote to offer some hope, give it without judging those who aren't of the same mind. And while you are calmly working hope into the hearts of the hurting, also remember in your quiet humility, you could be wrong. Barry

Since skeptic started his juvenile post with a condescending opinion, I am curious to hear his evidence of inter-gender activities that he says challenges boys with more success. A mature response would have started with evidence and skipped the unscoutlike postering. Barry

First and last meeting were campfires at the local park by the lake. The first meeting campfire was for the Bobcat ceremony and the last meeting campfire was for graduating each den to the next year rank. The last meeting campfire was on a Friday so the New just graduated Webelos could spend the night with the new Webelos IIs. January was AOL ceremony, February was Blue and Gold and Pinewood. The snake guy came in April when the awards agenda was light. They always like the snake guy. A little of both I guess. The Webelos led all the Opening and closing flag ceremonies. One Bear or Wolf Den was part of the opening and closing. The Webelos showed them how and where to carry the flag. The Webelos (called CM helpers) were expected to perform at least one skit, and several walk-on skits, with a Bear/Wolf den also performing a skit. Often the adult leaders did a skit....because everyone wants to be part of the fun. Many of the Award ceremonies were participation with the whole pack doing a cheer, yell or even a dance as the scout received their award. We got the parents as involved as we could. I found by accident that scouts love to watch their parents sing silly songs. I generally recruited a parent to lead the songs. Only silly songs worked for this age. Boys of this age don't sit and watch very well, so my goal was to get them on their feet yelling as much as possible through chants, cheers and jumping until the neckerchief hits the floor type stuff. I told a lot of jokes. But that ,believe it or not, was more to entertain parents. Turns out parents like to participate also. Of course little brother and sister like the jumping yelling stuff. As I said, the key to a short meeting is moving from one agenda item to the next with a little pause as possible. And the key to that is everyone knowing when do their part. I learned the younger the scouts, the more the den leaders have to participate. Tigers pretty much require the Den leader to stand holding the their hands. The Webelos need no help or guidance from their leader. The only time the sign was raised to get the groups attention was by the Webelos to start the flag ceremony. The rest of the meeting flowed too fast to loose a scout's attention. That was the goal anyway. Each meeting was a little different. The Webelos II den came 45 minutes early to set up the chairs and we never set them up the same. Sometimes the awards ceremony was done at the first part of the meeting, sometimes it was done toward the end. It sounds complicated, but actually each meeting had the same parts (skits, song, and awards), they were just moved around so the scouts never knew what was coming, which helped keep their attention. This was around 22 years ago, so I'm forgetting a lot. Barry