Eagledad

>> There's always a fine line between letting boys fail in their position and providing the help necessary for the troop to have a successful function.

>>I reckon we all agree that if we have a new unit, adults need to provide more support, eh? So in respondin', let's think about what a mature unit might do.

FUNDRAISERS! When our troop was very young and we were trying to teach the scouts about annual planning, we asked them to vision the impossible. Eventually someone mentioned a trip to Alaska and laughter followed. We told them that nothing is impossible and if they wanted a trip to Alaska, it could be done. A temporary patrol of scouts went to Alaska two years later. If they really want to do both, nothing is impossible. FUNDRAISERS! I think the adults will see a lot of character growth as well. Oh, you gotta love this scouting stuff. Barry

My ideal number is two, a Scoutmaster and a cook. My dad was a Boy Scout during WWII. They had several campouts where zero adults attended because they just didnt have the man power. My dad said they would give a full report to the Scoutmaster at the next Troop meeting and he then advised and guided them on improving. Im not saying that is the best way to run a troop because I think the adult role model is important in a boys growth. But, I wouldnt have minded our SPLs taking the troop camping without adults on his last campout before the election to see test what he had learned. I do think new troops need more adults than mature troops. Building new boy run programs takes a lot of time and energy. But once those troops get their feet under them (four or five years), there isnt a lot for adults to do except stand around and tell stories, which I enjoy very much. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

>>"Theory" is as good as it gets in science, nothing is ever proved. Theory of gravity, theory of electromagnetism, etc.

>>No Ed, evolution has been observed, both in the wild and in the lab.

Its kind of funny, but you can do almost anything you want provided "Jesus" is mentioned. Sign of the times I guess. You've received great advice from the forum. I have found that a prayer to start, a song to follow, then a few short readings out of the bible followed with a prayer and a song pretty much gets the job done in 15 minutes with no complaints. Find readings that are generic to positive attitudes or perspectives and keep the prayers short and simple so the boys don't get antsy. I think that is basically what you will find with Scouts Own. If you have guitar, the music goes really well. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

>>How did boys from atheist families have the opportunity to participate in scouts? Were the boys themselves atheists, or just their families? And by "in the schools," do you mean school-chartered?

>>The whole Buddhist/atheist issue is just such a consistency problem.

>>Either toss the Buddhists out, or come to grips with the atheist issue.

This is one of those discussions that no one wins. I work in a scientific environment and I have to kind of laugh at the assumptions of how we get from point A to point B thru science. Or what we assume is science. Sometimes point B is only the opinion of the guy at the top of the tower. It isnt until many years later after the tower crumbles that the truth is really found. I see it everyday. I think we will see that in global warming. Anyway, as much as I know what goodness God brings into our personal lives, much less our culture, I can relate to LeRoys view when thinking about homosexuality. Many folks claim gays are born gay. Or even that God designed them that way. Yet there is no evidence that the biological body was designed to for homosexual relations at all. In fact it is just the opposite, the body is not designed for active long term gay relationships. Eventually something has to give. So, when I hear or read someone suggesting that folks are born gay, I have to assume that their belief is only held on, well faith. Barry

I understand that one of these boys has a reputation for this kind of stuff, but remember that they are 7 year old boys. It is not in their nature to stand or sit being calm and quit while waiting for the next activity. Staying quiet for just a few minutes is painful for a seven year old. Many times I've sat in camp toward the end of the day of day camp listening to inexperienced cub leaders yelling at the top of their lungs. I never had too much problem because if I saw the scouts loosing control, I changed the environment. Sometimes that meant skipping a day camp activity to go over and play in the stream of just run through the woods. Kim Near Seattle has some excellent suggestions. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

>>The troop is new having formed only in October of last year so we don't have much of a cultural institution to draw upon.

>>There is also the rumor that he has gotten some girl pregnant. Not my most stellar Scout.

>>As to the JASM in question, I have an ASM who only shows up when work doesn't interfere with him also - same rules apply - glad to see you here! I just wish either of them would show up more often and more regularly.

>>Essentially the scouting program is a 13 year old program. When a boy turns 16, the program offers him little (except perhaps a leadership position), and they do not like to "hang around" the "little kids".

I did this several times. Back when our Council Webelos Summer camp left a lot to be desired, we did our own Webelos summer camps. The first thing I did was send a very long letter to the parents that while we will be camping as a Group, it was in no way condoned by the BSA, Council or District. The parents had to sign the letter understanding that the BSA was not responsible in anyway. Each family had to prove the ability to pay for any health issues. A parent was required for each scout, however we highly encouraged the whole family to join the fun, which most did. We also had a couple of boys who couldnt send a parent, but other familes took on the responsibility for each boy. We still did the Boy Scouts swimming test and had all the scouts got physicals. I included our unit commissioner in on everything. Everyone knew what was going on. In fact I told a few years later that it was my campouts that motivated Council to fix and improve the Council Webelos Summer Camp. Those were some great times for the families. I just attended a funeral for one of those parents last week and many of the pictures they showed of him were from those campouts. We just wanted a better program than the BSA provided at the time. We had a blast. It was a lot of work, but we had a blast. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

>>The problem with not participating in popcorn sales (or FOS) is that it increases the burden on the units that do. It also forces the scouting professionals to focus on raising money instead of supporting their units.

>>It makes me feel dirty that I have to sell popcorn to get a patch! and on top of that the Cubmaster Knot requires your unit to get Quality Unit twice during your tenure.

>>My council removed fire buckets from summer camp because they didn't want untrained people fighting fires and because of the mosquito problem caused by standing water. Extinguishers are present in structures, but not in campsites.

"Ghost Chickens in the Sky" seems to be a fun favorite for all ages. We sang it from Cubs to Wood Badge campfires. Goes real well with a guitar. To the tune of Ghost Riders in the Sky. Lyrics: A chicken farmer went walking out one dark and fateful day He rested by the coop as he went on along his way When all at once a rotten egg hit him in the eye It was the sight he dreaded Ghost chickens in the sky! Bok bok bok BOK Bok bok BOK The ghost chickens in the sky The farmer had raised chickens since he was 24 A-working for the Colonel for thirty years or more Killing all those chickens and sending them to fry Now they want revenge... Ghost chickens in the sky. Bok... Their feet were black and shiny, their eyes were burning red They had no meat or feathers, these chickens all were dead They carried off the farmer and he died by the claw They cooked him extra crispy And ate him with cole slaw Bok... Barry Oh great! Now I will be singing this in my head all day long.

Pretty Good. Leave the snacks until the last. Have you thought about Smores? That is what the little brothers and sisters will remember most. Barry

Hi All >>On a side note, kids are not allowed to fiddle with the fire -- no sticks poking in and out of the campfire. Sticks that get poked in get added to the fire perminantly. This earns me some hairy eyeballs from the kids, and some of the Dads think I'm too up tight, but I don't really care. Trips to the ER ruin my camping experience.

>>Otherwise boys would only be in regular patrols for one year until they turned 12. Kind of silly, don't you think?

>>It is perfectly permissable to give the Scout a rope and ask him to tie a bowline. It is perfectly permissible to ask the Scout to demonstrate first aid for a choking victum. It is perfectly permissible to ask a Scout demonstrate how a compass works and to orient a map.