Eagledad

>>Although I agree with him, I think many of us consider these concepts to be unequal and it was my intent to demonstrate that inequality.

>>I fear that once this kid comes out from under all this oppression he won't be the same kid. I'll write about this when it happens.

>>The boys are quite aware of the 'hot buttons' we recognize as adults and a question about 'thrifty' is not the same as one about 'reverent'.

Great Monday All >>I would have expected any adult leader not only be permitted to attend but also contribute to the meeting.

>>There are a very few scouts in my area that aren't Christian, and I worry that they won't get a fair shake at their EBOR, if only because a well-intentioned board might not have a broad enough perspective or be open-minded enough to accept that some faiths are very different from Christianity, and that the job of the EBOR is not to determine a faith's "acceptability" through the lens of of the DRP.

>>There are plenty of places that don't require the use of fossil fuel to cook on. A #10 can makes a great stove that will still work on natural fuels rather than carrying flamable liquids into the forests. A #10 stove can burn wood, charcoal and wax. I'm not talking campfires here, I'm talking cooking fires/stoves, limited, and confined.

>> Doesn't that really indicate a training problem rather than a patrol make-up problem? Shouldn't the leaders in the troop be using the Leading/Teaching Edge principles from NYLT (Explaining, Demonstrating, Guiding, and Enabling)

I am with Stosh about using a fire. We cooked all our meals from fires when I was a scout and it is a huge confidence builder. Scouts today just can see how to do it. When my son was a Troop Guide, he taught all his new scouts to cook on the fire on their first campout. He said that for him, it was one of the fastest ways to bond them as a patrol. However, you would be surprised how many areas are regulated for stoves only. And fire bands have been very common in Oklahoma for several years. I think the problem is we develop habits and dont think out of the box when we can. I like th

>>Alas, I'm still in the minority but there truly are two sides to every story.

>>I thought I had the Ship's officers 100% trained, I still do, but the records aren't agreeing with me.

>>If you have a few hundred dollars to spend on kitchen gear for each 6-8 scouts go for it! But keep in mind you will need several fuel bottles ($10.00 each) and two Dragonflys ($100+ each) and two smaller cook sets at$50 each (Even the "fly" has issues with an six to eight quart "pasta pot")...to do the same job as a coleman stove ($39.00) and a ($70) patrol cook kit.

We are a light weight patrol Troop. We spent lots of money several years back to build great and wonderful patrol boxes that could cripple a scout for life if he tripped. For a lot of reasons, we decided to experiment with light weight patrol gear that could be carried in with backpacks if so desired. We were at a point of needing large trucks to haul gear. So we made a decision to make the patrol portable by cars only if the need every came. There is some really good lightweight gear out there. The only disadvantage is lightweight gear is typically better quality which means higher price

>>I went, had a blast. It rained some, it was dry some, people complained, some Scouts helped fellow Scouts as necessary. The TEAM worked.

>>Honestly I don't know how you handle this if you are actually going to let the boys really choose for themselves and you also don't want to lose those tough cases from your program.

>>It boggles the mind . . .

It is interesting that from my experiences, boys will not seriously train to get more physically in shape for a trek. The shakedowns typically are enough to let them know if they can hack it. I used to worry about the scouts not being physically in shape, but they typically do very well. At least as well as the worst performing adult. The only time we had a problem with a scout who couldnt handle it was the one who missed most of the shakedowns do to a competitive soccer schedule. And it was mental fitness that was his problem, not physical. Looking back on it now, I think he might have

>>Making long lists of rules and harping on about the way it once was is not the answer. In fact at the end of the day I feel it will really scare the youth away.

>>The obvious conclusion is that they mainly car camped then too. The menu plans seem to support this with pounds of flour and raw bacon and lots of can goods.

I was just thinking that our PLC meetings were closed meetings. We have weekly meetings instead of monthly, but the SM and an ASM are the only two adults allowed in the meeting unless one got permission from the SPL prior to the meeting. I cant remember a scout who shouldnt be in the meeting ever wanting to be in a meeting, so I cant say we restricted it from them as well. But reading Schiffs post, I was reminded how we taught our SPLs to run the meetings the same as the troop CC. Our SPL was required to have a final agenda ready the night before for the SM and Patrol leaders. I taught ou

>>That said, we allow all parents, as observers only, to attend our committee meetings. If some special circumstance exists, such as in Barry's example, we don't necessarily deal with it on a committee level but possibly on a subset of the committee and Scoutmaster.

>>I know of Eagle Board members who consider themselves Horatius at the Bridge to keep "atheists" from becoming Eagle Scouts.

>>It is an important difference.

>>our kids today instead of learning to be self sufficent would rather escape into a fantasy world of their own making. As Eamonn stated,scouting will become irrelevant to our youth unless we can find a way as a society to reverse this trend rather than feeding into it.

Hi All I sit here in ah reading these threads listing hypothetical scenarios intended to justify different approaches adults want to take with their program. Hey, Im all for thinking out of the box to fulfill noble visions. But supporting philosophy with hypothetical worse case scenarios and suggesting they are typical of all most troops is not a respectful approach for selling a plan. Oh Im sure there are units with some of these problems or situations, but many of us with been there done that T-Shirts know they are not typical. Now if you want to justify changes to fix or improve

>>My second area of expertise is in the old west and the westward migration. I have been told that I am an expert in this area. But I don't see any merit badges where I can apply my knowledge.