Eagledad

>>And how is this really a boy-led program when it is nothing more than the boys learning what it takes to follow the SM's directives?

>>Of course a good servant leader is a follower. As I mentioned in the patrol-method model I presented earlier, each group is part of other focus groups. The patrol members are the main focus. The PL works to meet the needs of the members, but at the same time the troop-staff of boys are working to meet the needs of the PL's, and the adults are working to meet the needs of the troop-staff.

>>It never ceases to amaze me that just when I begin to despair over something happening in our Troop, something comes along to revive my spirits.

>>This is why troops who routinely inject New Scouts into Experienced Patrols commonly complain about not being able to get the patrol method to work well. It's not that the patrol method doesn't work, it is that the leaders do not realize that every time the patrol make-up is altered it will diminish the ability of patrol for a period of time.

>>TLT should not be a long lecture from the Scoutmaster. It should be an oppportunity to get the boys talking and thinking about how youth leadership works in a troop and what role the adults play in it.

>>I would strongly disagree with Beavah that the leadership skills a scout learns cannot be applied outside of scouting. In fact I think horse hockey would be putting it mildly.

Burnout is the number one cause of scouts leaving the BSA. Do what you have to do to maintain program quality. We told all parents that Den leaders would not assist in any other activity. Some did because they enjoyed doing it, but we gave them the out if they needed it. Also, most of the new adult leaders come from these voluntiers. So the more you can pull in, the better chances of them joining the staff.

>>I like the idea of having the parents reach in instead, maybe give the boys/parents the option of letting the boy do it if he wants,

I think it is pretty cool and the boys will love it. These kinds of things are why I love this scouting stuff. Barry

>> The scout is elected to ASPL for a 1/2 year term (June COH-Dec COH or vice versa) and then automatically moves up to SPL for the next 6 months.>> This is an exceedingly interesting approach. At first glance, I really like it.

>> One of the few things that ol' packsaddle and I agree on: Cubmaster is hands-down the best job in Scouting. I'd do it again if anybody asked.

Hi All There are all kinds of reasons why some parents tend to hover and all units have to deal with it to some degree. We slowly learned to be specific at the beginning when the families visit the troop about the objectives of a boy run program. We describe the program as taking the adult out it as much as possible so the scout learns independence and self initiative. Its even in the parents manual we give when the families join and go through training. So, when the situation comes up, we only had to point them back to that purpose written in the manual, and generally the parents stand back. I can only think of one parent who not only wouldnt stand back when the committee requested, she tried to change the policy in the committee meetings more toward her style. She keep using the fact that she was WB trained as to why we needed to listen to her. When the scouts and parents of other scouts started to complain about her, we restricted her from participating with the scouts and asked her to only help in committee. Our CC was pretty strong and wouldnt be pushed around by her. She eventually left our troop for another. Two weeks hadnt gone by before the SM of that troop called me to ask about her. She was asked to leave that troop within the year and she and her son joined another troop. Both were out of scouting soon after that. I didnt ask why. Barry

>>However you were given a copy of the minutes so that you were not left in the dark. Also, you should have had your Assistant Den Leader, or one of the other den parents, attend the meeting in your stead to represent your den. That way you would have had someone to offer up your den's side of things.

>>I would also guess the other Troop's "more traditional" program means no women. Which I think you would prefer.

>>(Just as an aside, our SPL/ASPL serve for a full year rather than 6 months - I wonder how typical that is?)

Hi All This is not a knock against my good friend John-In-KC, but his post kind of brings modern day scouting to a sobering perspective. In a request by someone for the training needed to be a good CM, John listed a few things off: CM Specific Tiger Specific Wolf/Bear Specific Webelos Specific BALOO Safe Swim Defense Round Table Pow-wow Den Chief training All in one hour a week, and John didnt even include Fast Start and Youth Protection which are be taken on line. I was worn out just reading his list, but then John added the perfect Cub Scout finish. KISMIF (KEEP it simple, Make it FUN). It brought a smile to my face. I love this Cub scouting stuff. Barry

Hi Lisabob I cant really say if this is the right thing for your son because I dont know your son or the troop well enough. What I do know is this: I think 14 is young for a mature troop program. Its not that they cant handle it, they can. But they just dont seem to gain from the experience as much as the 15 year old. Most scouts who truly run for SPL the first time are nervous and unsure of themselves. I have found that while the SPL experience doesnt change the boys personality, it magnifies it a lot. In the good troops, the experience is exhausting. In the bad troops the experience is boring. Not one of the SPLs under my time as a SM quit scouting before their 18th birthday. While a couple of my SPLs were not that great as leaders, all were super scouts and super leaders after their SPL experience because they learned so much about scouting in those few months. Even the 14 year old SPLs are miles a head of the other 14 year olds. They were truly the best of the best and viewed that way by all the other scouts. Once an SPL, always an SPL. No matter what job they take on after being an SPL, past SPLs are looked at as JASMs by the other scouts because they are the adults of the scouts. All our SPLs volunteered to be Troop Guides. I used to wonder why, but looking back on it, the TG was the closest servant leadership job in the troop that gave the same feeling of satisfaction they got from being an SPL. If your son doesnt become an SPL, he still has plenty to reward his experience until he is ready. If he does become an SPL, he will hate the first two months, love the second two months, then look forward to the next election day the last two months. He will never be the same after, and he will always have a part of himself in the troop. If the other scouts dont take the troop seriously, he will take it personally. But if the other adults dont take the troop seriously, he will get angry. Every SPL looks at the troop as theirs to protect. There is a lot to consider, but really it is only six months of stressful intense frustrating leadership that will change him for the rest of his life. Depending on the troop of course. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

>>No one in the troop knows this, but I am bisexual. And based off of past experiences, I do not think this would go over very well with the boys, as well as some adults.

>>I find it tremendously sad, however, that there are boys out there who DO want to join in the adventure, but whom we snub by saying they're not the "best type" of person.

>>I do not believe in any god, deity, higher power, whatever. And when I say "to do my duty to god" or "a scout is reverent" or "one nation, under god", I do not mean any of it.

Hi All Boy this is tough. Everyone has given good advice. I can say from my observations that this situation typically gets worse and these units usually loose their numbers rather quickly. We are all different and I dont like to paint a broad stroke. IN ballance, women are as good (or bad) at leading in Boy Scouts as men. But, there is one thing that is 100% certain about women leaders, they never had the Boy Scout experience as a youth. And that is a huge difference. I cant give better advice than already given, I can only ask: what motivation could this SM, or committee for that matter, have for changing the way they are presently doing things? What kind of experience do you want your son to have in scouting? Barry

>>The fact that their sons (who are now grown) are no longer in the program has nothing to do with it. They are excellent because of their passion, knowledge, commitment and experience.

>> I think many SM struggle with leadership development because they DON'T understand or know how to guide the scout in actual practice.

Until recently, Silppery Falls in Oklahoma didn't provide any tents. I think a couple of camp sites provide them now, but not the overall camp. Barry

Beautiful Oklahoma Day All I have felt for some time that Scoutmasters struggle today with leadership development because National emphasizes formal training over the scoutmaster guiding the scout in actual practice. I really dont think the folks at National understand how to do effective leadership development, and this bead thing only supports that view. I would gladly give up my beads to recognize the SM who gets the most leadership development with least JLT. Barry