Eagledad

>>I find it tremendously sad, however, that there are boys out there who DO want to join in the adventure, but whom we snub by saying they're not the "best type" of person.

>>I do not believe in any god, deity, higher power, whatever. And when I say "to do my duty to god" or "a scout is reverent" or "one nation, under god", I do not mean any of it.

Hi All Boy this is tough. Everyone has given good advice. I can say from my observations that this situation typically gets worse and these units usually loose their numbers rather quickly. We are all different and I dont like to paint a broad stroke. IN ballance, women are as good (or bad) at leading in Boy Scouts as men. But, there is one thing that is 100% certain about women leaders, they never had the Boy Scout experience as a youth. And that is a huge difference. I cant give better advice than already given, I can only ask: what motivation could this SM, or committee for

>>The fact that their sons (who are now grown) are no longer in the program has nothing to do with it. They are excellent because of their passion, knowledge, commitment and experience.

>> I think many SM struggle with leadership development because they DON'T understand or know how to guide the scout in actual practice.

Until recently, Silppery Falls in Oklahoma didn't provide any tents. I think a couple of camp sites provide them now, but not the overall camp. Barry

Beautiful Oklahoma Day All I have felt for some time that Scoutmasters struggle today with leadership development because National emphasizes formal training over the scoutmaster guiding the scout in actual practice. I really dont think the folks at National understand how to do effective leadership development, and this bead thing only supports that view. I would gladly give up my beads to recognize the SM who gets the most leadership development with least JLT. Barry

>> There's always a fine line between letting boys fail in their position and providing the help necessary for the troop to have a successful function.

>>I reckon we all agree that if we have a new unit, adults need to provide more support, eh? So in respondin', let's think about what a mature unit might do.

FUNDRAISERS! When our troop was very young and we were trying to teach the scouts about annual planning, we asked them to vision the impossible. Eventually someone mentioned a trip to Alaska and laughter followed. We told them that nothing is impossible and if they wanted a trip to Alaska, it could be done. A temporary patrol of scouts went to Alaska two years later. If they really want to do both, nothing is impossible. FUNDRAISERS! I think the adults will see a lot of character growth as well. Oh, you gotta love this scouting stuff. Barry

My ideal number is two, a Scoutmaster and a cook. My dad was a Boy Scout during WWII. They had several campouts where zero adults attended because they just didnt have the man power. My dad said they would give a full report to the Scoutmaster at the next Troop meeting and he then advised and guided them on improving. Im not saying that is the best way to run a troop because I think the adult role model is important in a boys growth. But, I wouldnt have minded our SPLs taking the troop camping without adults on his last campout before the election to see test what he had learned.

>>"Theory" is as good as it gets in science, nothing is ever proved. Theory of gravity, theory of electromagnetism, etc.

>>No Ed, evolution has been observed, both in the wild and in the lab.

Its kind of funny, but you can do almost anything you want provided "Jesus" is mentioned. Sign of the times I guess. You've received great advice from the forum. I have found that a prayer to start, a song to follow, then a few short readings out of the bible followed with a prayer and a song pretty much gets the job done in 15 minutes with no complaints. Find readings that are generic to positive attitudes or perspectives and keep the prayers short and simple so the boys don't get antsy. I think that is basically what you will find with Scouts Own. If you have guitar, the music goes real

>>How did boys from atheist families have the opportunity to participate in scouts? Were the boys themselves atheists, or just their families? And by "in the schools," do you mean school-chartered?

>>The whole Buddhist/atheist issue is just such a consistency problem.

>>Either toss the Buddhists out, or come to grips with the atheist issue.

This is one of those discussions that no one wins. I work in a scientific environment and I have to kind of laugh at the assumptions of how we get from point A to point B thru science. Or what we assume is science. Sometimes point B is only the opinion of the guy at the top of the tower. It isnt until many years later after the tower crumbles that the truth is really found. I see it everyday. I think we will see that in global warming. Anyway, as much as I know what goodness God brings into our personal lives, much less our culture, I can relate to LeRoys view when thinking about homosex

I understand that one of these boys has a reputation for this kind of stuff, but remember that they are 7 year old boys. It is not in their nature to stand or sit being calm and quit while waiting for the next activity. Staying quiet for just a few minutes is painful for a seven year old. Many times I've sat in camp toward the end of the day of day camp listening to inexperienced cub leaders yelling at the top of their lungs. I never had too much problem because if I saw the scouts loosing control, I changed the environment. Sometimes that meant skipping a day camp activity to go over an

>>The troop is new having formed only in October of last year so we don't have much of a cultural institution to draw upon.

>>There is also the rumor that he has gotten some girl pregnant. Not my most stellar Scout.

>>As to the JASM in question, I have an ASM who only shows up when work doesn't interfere with him also - same rules apply - glad to see you here! I just wish either of them would show up more often and more regularly.

>>Essentially the scouting program is a 13 year old program. When a boy turns 16, the program offers him little (except perhaps a leadership position), and they do not like to "hang around" the "little kids".

I did this several times. Back when our Council Webelos Summer camp left a lot to be desired, we did our own Webelos summer camps. The first thing I did was send a very long letter to the parents that while we will be camping as a Group, it was in no way condoned by the BSA, Council or District. The parents had to sign the letter understanding that the BSA was not responsible in anyway. Each family had to prove the ability to pay for any health issues. A parent was required for each scout, however we highly encouraged the whole family to join the fun, which most did. We also had a couple of bo

>>The problem with not participating in popcorn sales (or FOS) is that it increases the burden on the units that do. It also forces the scouting professionals to focus on raising money instead of supporting their units.