Eagledad

>>Uhh, without quotes, italics, or "he says", "my response", it's hard to tell who is saying what here. Too easy to blow through to the bottom and move on to the next topic.

>>A lot of large troops that are adult led tend to hang together on the personality of the SM and other leaders. When those dynamics change, either they fragment or collapse under their own weight. The council always has the option to step in to minimize the damage.

>>So if the forum were to follow Its Me's suggesstion it would need to add 22 new categories.

>>The council steps in to break up a troop? I've never heard of that.

>>That's the difference! It has NOTHING to do with the adults, it's the boys leading the program that make the difference.

>>Very few adults can run a troop of 30-40 people. Most run 20-30. This is why scout troop sizes tend to run in these ranges for numbers. Turning this over to a boy means even fewer because youth at that age cannot handle the group dynamics of such sizes. Either the adult will continue to lead through the SPL or the numbers will naturally fall.

I love just for fun questions. OK, are socks included? Barry

>>The closest thing the SM gets to hands on is supporting the work of any JASM and SPL. Otherwise he's there to do teaching, feedback, bouncing off of ideas, resource person. He has enough to do keeping adults at bay, lining up rides, working with CC and ASM's and other things the boys are not expected to do that only adults can handle.

>>The Troop Officers form up virtual patrols and focus their attention on the needs of everyone, not just one patrol. The patrol members are focused on the teamwork of patrol. If something is needed in the patrol, it would be better to find a troop officer for assistance rather than interrupting another patrol and its members for assistance?

>>Weather it was a JLT or NYLT course your son should be able to tell you more than that he walked in circles & burned ants.

>>I am also temted to just sit tight through his tenor and see if the next SPL has a better appreciation for the patrol method.

>>That's because of the way that we seperate kids by age for everything else.

>>What I want to say say is look the mixed aged patrol is where we need to be and we need to get on with this. But the resistance to this was greater than I had perceived it would be. The older scouts only want to be with older scouts.

>>You can argue that jblake or others are successful at what they do, the question is if they arenot following the scouting program, then is what they do really Boy Scouting, or are they simply using the name and the uniform for their own program.

A few thoughts on the subject. That is the first time I've seen the list qiven in such a clear manner on this forum, well done. Second, it may appear simple to some, but to me it is a such a parsed list from different sources, it will take quite some time for adults to learn. Third, it actually is not that complicated of a list once it is practiced because it is naturally intuitive. At the end our Scoutmaster Specifi classes we ask the participants for any questions on anything about the program and clearly discipline was number one. Even after all the training, adults struggle with real

>>I do love the comment about real world balance

I just love the title, Philmont Training Center made easy. I am one of those who actually had to make the choice between Disney World and PTC. First of all, its not just about money. Many folks are limited by vacation time provide by their jobs, lets say an average of two weeks a year. And if you are active, it is likely that one week went to either summer camp or high adventure. That in itself is a difficult choice, especially for the Scoutmaster who feels obligated to attend summer camp or go with the older son to Northern Tier. Then there is the spouse that not only reminds you

Ghost Chickens in the sky sung to the tune of Ghost Riders in the Sky. Lyrics: A chicken farmer went walking out one dark and fateful day He rested by the coop as he went on along his way When all at once a rotten egg hit him in the eye It was the sight he dreaded Ghost chickens in the sky! Bok bok bok BOK Bok bok BOK The ghost chickens in the sky The farmer had raised chickens since he was 24 A-working for the Colonel for thirty years or more Killing all those chickens and sending them to fry Now they want revenge... Ghost chickens in the sky. Bok

I also agree with OGE and anyone else who wears knots for whatever reason. Knots are part of scouting and part of the uniform, so wear them with pride. That being said, I don't wear knots. I have abnormal fear of letting such things go to my head, so I leave temptation in my dresser drawers. Since I'm not as active with scouting right now, I am thinking of mounting them in a frame before I loose them. I also don't like to wear my WB Beads, but will do so at WB events so as not to stick out and become a conversation piece. I know it is silly and I agree. We all have our querks I gues

>>But we are stuck on how to get it out of the rut ... our troop meetings are either adult planned, or choas.

Great suggestions. Let me suggest Get And Use The Patrol Leaders Handbook And SPL Handbook. Those two books provide very simple guidelines for planning and agendas and should be used by both the adults and scouts. That way when a question or problem comes up, the SPL and SM sit down together, pull out their Handbooks and work for a solution. As your group gets better and more experienced, encourage them to improve what they have learned, but start very simple. We also taught the Who, what,where, when... and it works well once the system has developed. But right off the bat, it is a lot of

>>then the unit has training issues. They do not know or understand the roles of the various levels of program, and they need more training...the council can help with that.

>>My question is, should a person who chooses not to do so, be made to feel like they are some sort of deadbeat because they didn't repay their "debt" to Scouting?

>>The basic problem is that most kids don't want to be in Scouting. They stick it through Cub Scouts because their parents want them to be there. In Boy Scouts . . . they just don't want to be there. It isn't cool. No video games.

Well there are a couple assumptions that aren't quite correct. The huge majority of scouts in troops did come from the Cubs. And, the drop out rate of first year scouts was about the same as it is now. The reason for the higher numbers back then was a successful advertising program developing a culture that second grade boys automatically join Cub Scouts. An increase of Cubs led to the increase of troops. In my humble opinion, (and I know it is a reach, but I believe it), adding the Tiger program took a huge toll on the pack recruitment over the years. First grade boys are too young