Eagledad

yes I agree, but a lot of is being taught to the adults stuff the scouts already know. Since most of what adults should be doing is teaching, guiding,and mentoring, might as well let the scouts practice on the adults. If you can gets your scouts to instruct at IOLS and the boys are willing, go for it. Barry

This is a really good question. The expectation of JASMs are different for every troop, but the primary objective is to give the scout challenges more along the lines of an ASM. When I was the Council JLT Chairman, we developed the JLTC (NYLT) staff position as JASM training because the scouts in that position spend a lot of time learning to teach course classes and skills for guiding the scouts during the course. It really was great training. I don't know if NYLT does as good, but I would start there. But, you got me wondering about the adult training classes and I think that is really a good idea. Specifically I was thinking about the Introduction to Outdoor Leaders Skills. If I were still on the Council Training Committee, and I am not, I would suggest that we train new JASM scouts to teach that course to the adults. They scouts know the skills, but they would learn how to teach and work guiding scouts like ASMs but teaching and guiding the adults in the course. Since it is unlikely your council or district would use your scouts to train the adults, have a weekend or a day where your JASMs teach your new adults the same skills they teach at IOLS. I think you find everyone enjoying the experience. We kind of this in our troop. On the first campout of the year with all the new scouts, we have the new adults sit in with new scouts in Woods Tools class. The scouts teach the whole class and we find it is a good introduction for all the new parents to a boy run program. Just go a little farther and make a day of it with fire building, and many of the same things taught in IOLS. Barry

>>Can a group bully itself? Yep, they do it all the time and it can happen in a boy-led program. It's called peer pressure and this as well can be both positive and negative.

>>We are kinda dweeby. Most of us don't see the need to adorn ourselfs with the manufacturer's logo to the point that we even get "Gold Wing" tattoos.

The best one I've seen is a cooking contest between each troops' adults combined for the meal that is served to the whole camp that evening. Interestingly barbequing whole pigs, roasting turkeys and creating out of this world stews keeps the adults pretty busy the whole day. If all the troops cook in one area, the adults get to know each other pretty good. Barry

>>You have it right ITS ME. When someone is given a directive to accomplish a task from the "higher ups" the only recourse many have is to simply bully. When the SM dictates to the SPL, who dictates to the PLC, who dictates to the PL, who dictates to his members, bullying is going to happen somewhere along the way.

>>Gotta stay with the thread. >Gotta stay with the thread.

yes,those are the same natural leaders who would earn the eagle if they were in scouts. Kathy is talking about the other 97%of the youth. Barry

sports is not boy led and it generally only develops natural leaders. Scouts done correctly is aleadership development program for all boys. Iwas also a coach while was a scout leader. Barry

aims and methods are what sets this program apart from the others. I can't think of another that is better or even equal. Sports & church youth groups don't develop the confidence & independence a good troop does. Barry

I'm. With GWD Scouter, you don't need to stay for your son or visa versa. The district needs you, the troop won't change without you. Go where your energy can help the most boys. Barry

Call your DE and ask for a couple numbers to Scoutmasters. Then call the SM and ask for a scout that will help you prepare for the campout. We typically ask a scout to volunteer to help a den get ready when they want to camp with our troop. It's a good fun learning experience for everyone and usually the scout and the Webelos leader bond really well. Barry

GREAT post Mike. Once the PLC starts working as a team as you described, bad behavior seems to almost disappear because the scouts learn to deal with it quickly before it turns into a problem. Barry

>>Did I do anything wrong?

>>Cubs seem to do better at focusing on a wide variety of different progams (Tiger -> Webelos) and not run amok. Why can't the BS program do the same thing?

>>Maybe the emphasis on accomplishment of certain measurements isn't the route to go. Is wearing the SPL patch the ultimate goal of leadership? Maybe the JASM is the ultimate goal of leadership. Only a few get to wear those.

Since the vast majority of older scouts dont get the Eagle, the BSA numbers never made sense. Even if Eagle was the base number, a 14 year old Eagle scout would skew any real numbers. Dont we really want to know how many scouts stay in the program to 17? And, those of us who have watched the process the BSA uses to track their rosters can honestly say they arent accurate enough to know anyway. That being said, if the discussion is really about fixing a problem, then the discussion first needs to understand where there is a problem. In general, the statistics for loosing scouts over the age of 10 (Troops) hasnt change significant in the last 40 years. The significant changes are more in the other ages, most significanly the 10 and below ages (Cubs). Add to that how much our culture has changed over the last 40 years, we might start to see a trend point toward a big picture. It is not an easy problem to understand. Most folks focus on local observations as the overall problem when in reality local issues are usually just local and dont represent the big picture problems. We really have to see the numbers at a larger scale to find the problems. Barry

>>But please don't expect me to be a cheerleader for vanilla when I prefer chocolate, and don't dump assumptions on me that because I like chocolate that I think vanilla isn't as good.

>> Dah? Wake up here. This is why the JASM leaves such a bad taste in my mouth. It's the kiss of death that the brightest and best get saddled with.

I'm not trying to sound condesending, but ask the scouts. That is how ours started doing lock-ins. They just wanted to do something that is totally fun for them. Tell your scouts that they can do anything they want, and see what comes up. Actually sailing sounds like a great day to me, I'm just not sure how much they will like it. I learned to quit guessing how a teenager thinks. And all women in general for that matter. Barry

Our PLC does a lock-in twice a y (after each election) where all they do is eat pizza and play computer games all night long. No offical stuff, just camaraderie building. I am always amazed at the computer stuff they bring just for this activity. They love it. Barry

>>Personally, I feel the idea of boys trowing axes goes against everything we try to teach them about safety.

>>I've never seen a teenager with as much ability as our JASM to provide leadership and mentoring without having to be the center of attention or getting everything done his own way. He's got a gift, that one.

>>A JASM should be used as any other ASM would be used. As a mentor, guide and source of knowledge.

>> I think that helps boys who come from troops not using the patrol method to experience it and get ideas on how to make it work in their home troop.