Eagledad

>>What level of first aid training do the scouts have, what are they carrying as a first aid kit, what are the "bail outs" along the trail, how would you get help if you needed it?

You can go as far as you want really. Or troop sometimes looks for a place where the Older Scouts take off in one direction and the rest of the troop go the other direction and rendezvous somewhere in the middle to camp. We brake camp in one location and move to another. Start small like letting your scouts out a mile or so away from your camp site on monthly campouts and have them meet you there. Next time do the same thing only have them carry their packs. Next let them out three miles away or just get creative. Look for opportunties for the scouts to hike without adults. Like summer camp, do the adults have to hike with the scouts to the dinning hall. Develop your scouts independence (and get the adults use to it) over time to where everyone is comfortable that the patrol can be left on their own. We adults tend to limit our scouts by our fears of what could happen. So what you do is train and practice the skills necessary to ease the adults fears and push out the envelope of scout independence. I had so much confidence in of our older scout groups that the two adults I sent with them to Philmont had no experience what so ever in backpacking except for the shakedowns. Both adults where in their 60s and the older scouts took very good care of them. Training and experience, thats all you need to do. Its just that some folks automatically dont consider the idea so they dont even start training to get the experience. But it all adds more fun to the program. Funny story, we dropped off the scouts to hike into camp one weekend and planned it so that they would walk into a simulated car accident. Our older scouts set up the mock accident with fake blood and broken bone and such. It all worked out well and everyone had fun. But two months later our caravan of cars drove up on a real accident while going to summer camp. Ever scout jumped out ready to help the injured. The accident was caused by slick roads from a recent rain and we adults were afraid another car would loose control into one of our 80 scouts. So we asked them to get back in the cars and you should have heard the bashing I took by not letting them help with the first-aid. Ah, I love this scouting stuff. Barry

>>As a point of interest, how do your Scouts follow the MB sign-up guidelines (get a list of counselors, contact counselor, set up meetings, etc.) at summer camp?

>>When in doubt, ask the Scout. You will be amazed at how often the solution will be simpler and fairer than anything you could think up on your own.

A few years back our district committee was having trouble finding someone to plan and lead our annual District Merit Badge Fair. Because of that, we (the district committee) considered canceling it. When word of that got out, I got a rush of calls from Scoutmasters complaining that if we canceled the fair, their scouts would not be able to advance. In short, the troops in our District had developed their unit advancement program down to the MB fair and summer camp. I got the brunt of the calls from SMs because it was my suggestion to the committee to cancel the Fair. I wasnt a fan of the fair anyways, but my suggestion was based from the idea that District shouldnt have to provide any activity that the units arent willing to support. The committee took the calls from the SMs as a sign of urgency to get the MB fair going. I got up and told them that it is the units job to provide a healthy program of advancement and the fair is a major cause of the problem and continuing the fair was just feeding the problem. We should be training the SMs to how they are supposed to lead the advancement part of their program. The committee didnt take my suggestion. We keep getting into discussions where folks on the forum keep promoting the old traditional scout program, and then follow with ideals and activities that counter traditional scouting. Our district MB Fair started 25 years ago as a way of providing scouts an opportunity to earn hard to earn MBs like oceanography and veterinary medicine. In the beginning, there wasnt more than a dozen badges offered. But the fair grew into the monster we see today because each year the adults planning the program try to one up each other by making the next year bigger and better. Bragging rights go to the planners who bring in the most scouts. Planners of our district fair are reaching out to scouts in other districts. The fair has developed into a day where scouts had to be in the building by 8:00 am and couldnt leave until 4:00pm. One room was used to hold those roudy scouts who disrupted a class. Adults roamed the halls trying to catch scouts not in a class during class time. Does this sound like Scouting? I talked to one scoutmaster who brought scouts in their Webelos uniforms. He just signed them up for his troop that week and was trying to give them a good start, he said. Sheesh! The BSA has Mission of developing men who make ethical decisions, is this program working toward that goal? If you look at the policy recommendations for a scout to sign up for a MB, the scout is supposed to seek a list from the scoutmaster, choose a counselor, contact that counselor, set up schedule of meetings with the counselor, fill out the MB card with all the information and then get the Scoutmasters signature before he even starts to work on the badge. Those proceedures are all very important opportunties to practice organization, communication and social etiquette. All important traits that young adults should practice for their future in society. All of this was skipped in our MB fair by getting the scout to sign up for all his badges weeks before the fair. The SM is not envolved at all and doesn't sign the car until the scout is finished the class, typically in one day. There are those here who talk about the bad example of scouters not following all the YP rules, yet it is OK to ignore these little guidelines to streamline a scout to faster rank advancement. Honestly I think in the big picture of the Mission of scouting, skipping the simple guidelines for signing up for a MB is a greater crime. And yet, just about every BSA summer camp requires the units to do just that. Its hard for me to define and Eagle mill. With adults who feel determined to raise the number of Eagles, Im not so sure that our whole program hasnt made the turn to being and Eagle mill. I personally think that sort of attitude feeds an Eagle Mill mentality and hurts the main program in general. We have a few troops in our district that brag that they will get your son his eagle by age 14 if the scout cooperates with their program. Interestingly those are the biggest units in the district, and yet have the weakest older scout programs. The adults of those units tend to lead our District Merit Badge Fair as well. I feel strongly that you will accurately measure the quality of a troop by the quality of the older scouts. I'm starting to also believe that you can measure the quality of the adults by measuring there priorities of the Eight Methods. A troop that needs outside MB programs to advance their scouts have poor quality program. I think the first challenge for any unit to try and not be an Eagle mill is to guide their scouts to follow the procedures for signing up for ALL their MBs. Even at summer camp. That alone will get the adults to focus a little more on developing skills of character instead of badge of stature. I promise that those units will see a dramatic difference in scouts confidence and social skills with other adults. And if that scout fails to earn his promised Eagle, well he still has those other skills to use the rest of his life. Sorry this went long. I promise that it started short and just went on and on. Hey have a great day all. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

>>I've been in the program over 35 years and just found out I've never had a background check. Had to fill out a new app for recharter and I doubt it's made its way through the hoops yet.

>>Teaching them Greenbar, JLT, and TLT/NYLT gives them all the options for their consideration. As it has been pointed out, there's a lot of myth floating around and even more adult interference in the processes. (after all where does one think is the #1 source for these bogus myths?)

My wife volunteered me to be our new Cub Master in the month of June and my very first scouting activity since I was a youth was attending a Webelos summer camp with my oldest son. During the second day, all the adults were called together and told in no uncertain terms that if the YP Guidelines where not obeyed, the camp would be shut down. YP training wasn't required back then and I had only been in scouts a couple weeks, so I was clueless. The folks running the camp seemed competent, but not all that professional. Ironically a few years later, I would be training them to be Troop Leaders. We became good friends. Anyways I left the meeting unsure of what it was really about. These camp leaders were clearly putting their foot down, but for what? I found through a parent from antoehr den that a female Webelos leader had been seen walking in on her Webelos as they were changing out of their swimsuits. They were having a good-O-time as boys do yelling and playing around inside the bathroom, so she walked in and told them to cut the horseplay. I found it interesting that the female leader of the camp didn't recognize that this female Webelos leaders was just doing what I've seen my wife and countless other mothers do and that is control her children. I guess she violated some YP rules somewhere, but even I knew that this clearly was and over reaction to an innocent nurturing behavior. That was how I was introduced to the world of adults in scouting. It made and impression and scared the fire out of me. Barry

>>The assumption is that it doesn't really matter how good a Patrol Leader is. >In fact the politically correct position these days is that it is "wrong" for a Scoutmaster to judge which Scouts are the best leaders and to guide the Patrols in the direction of their own best leaders, as both Baden-Powell Troops AND the BSA did before 1972.

>>It'll attract a few, but for the most part, from what I have seen in my council and what seems to be common threads on the forum, it just doesn't seem to be doing the job. 2-3% of the boys Eagle.

>>I was not directing the term racist toward anyone on this forum so I am sorry if you took offense. I feel that BSA faces a choice of either not reaching out to Latino communities for fear of "unscoutlike incidents" or to face the issue head-on and take a stand that the BSA will view such behavior as unacceptable from scouts or scouters.

>>We can be a purist organization that still operates as Baden Powell did in 1909 and have a very small membership or we can adapt to the times and promote a program that interests boys in 2009 and spread the values, traditions and lessons of scouting.

>>I just hope no one thinks the solution lies in red berets.

>>"I personally think that the Tiger program added in the early 80s is the single biggest contributor to the loss of boys in the cub program today. Why?"

This will be interesting to say the least. I do agree that changes have to be made to keep up with the times. But how far and to what level? I personally think that the Tiger program added in the early 80s is the single biggest contributor to the loss of boys in the cub program today. That indirectly affects the numbers at the troop level. But you dont see the BSA getting away from it. In fact, they must be happy with the performance because they have been enhancing the Tiger program. It would be interesting to learn how National thinks about these things. Barry

>>Why do you need to let people know who you are? The Scouts know who they are isn'that enough? And they will hopefully learn from this that it is important to help others for the sake of helping others and not for the recognition they get from it.

>> It really irks me, when fellow Scouters tell others, that they are "benefiting the entire BSA".... I did not like the donations being handed to us at all; but I have finally given in,

I remember asking the District to change its Scouting for Food policy of delivering food bags to each house door with a message to leave the bag on the porch for a scout to pick up the following Saturday. The scout never got to meet or speak to the persons donating the food during this whole process. I agree with firekat, we can't complain about a struggling program when the community doesn't know we exist. Barry

>>But I do think opprotunities should be provided for them,

>>And that's part of the problem. We have a clear cut transition, bridging, from Cub Scouts to Boy Scouts. But NOTHING for Boy Scouts bridge to Venturing. Or from Boy Scouts/Venturing to adult leadership.

>> believe Eagledad has hit it somewhat on the head. You do have a lot of leaders who do not allow the scouts to develope into leaders. I do disagree with the women statement as I've seen men do the same things.

>> I personally think the mistake we made is shiftin' the Boy Scoutin' program down into little kid land, not shiftin' it up. Though that may now be irreversible.

>>My thought is to set a plan for these boys before any advancement can be signed off, say 3 months (under the auspices of "scout spirit"). I am, however, at a loss of how to quantify improvement in this area.

>>Like as not, if yeh start talking about "bullying" the natural kid reaction will be to roll their eyes and assume that this is just "some adult thing." Real bullying to boys means physical stuff.

Ask your DE (District Executive) or District Commissioner for help finding a pack that will loan you their track. Set a date so you dont use the track on the same day as the other pack. I advice a Friday night and make it a family night. Have hot dogs, chips, and sodas for sale for one price so the families can eat dinner there, it adds more fun for everyone and your pack can make a few bucks. If the other pack is using the track on a Saturday morning after, they would love for you to leave it set up. Give out the cars all together so each scout has the same kit and require taht they use only the materials in the kits. Have a car building day a couple weeks before the derby so the boys whose parents cant help them will have an opportunity for help from a handy dad with some tools to help them work safely. Many dads tell me that helping the boys is the best part for them. Have a final weigh-in and check in the night before the race so your crew isnt rushing to get all the cars checked in before race time. There will always be a couple cars that need some help. And make be sure to help the boys get their cars close to weight either by adding or taking some weight off. That means have some tools and materials ready. Again, some boys come in totally clueless. Your job will be to help them get the cars at least race ready. Have some way of keeping the cars together safely until the race. We always set up chairs on both sides of the track so everyone can watch, but I leave a clear space next to the track where the scouts can sit right next to the track. It is very exciting for them and only requires an occasional caution to not be tempted to touch the track or cars. Now you need to understand that these kinds of competitions bring out the worst in some folks (dads), but Im not one to add a bunch of rules designed to keep them at bay. Instead I explain at the pack meetings that this is a family event. But this is also scouting and a perfect opportunity for the boys to learn the satisfaction of watching their creativity race with their friends. So the parents need to participate without taking over. Of course the younger the scouts, the more the parents might need to help. This should be a good start, Im other will be excited to add their wisdom. I love this scouting stuff. Barry