Eagledad

Agreed. The better CCs walk into the meeting already knowing questions that will be asked because they talked with the members before the meeting. That way they are prepared to control the discussion to keep it balanced. If a topic becomes complex and requires more time, it is scheduled for another time. Our SPLs are trained to manage meetings the same way. Barry

Parents are free to visit and join any troop they desire. The COR needs to sell their program just like all the other troops if he wants to build the troop back up. Barry

This is the reason I don't see the program with that addition of girls staying where it's at or ever going back to a more patrol method program. Eventually the adults without a scouting experience will level off to male and female adults with a scouting experience. But the experience will be from this generation, or next, view of the how the program should be used. The Canadian Scouts are already there. As for not picking on females as the problem, I agree. The only reason I used them as an example is because we saw the program change when they we brought in as leaders. Not because they were female, but because they had no experience as a youth in scouts to base some of their expectations as an adult. Barry

Says who! I was watching the discussion with Wisconsinmomma and Eagle94 and concluded that scouting is quickly changing from a "Game with a Purpose" to a "After School" outdoor experience program. I respect Wisconsinmomma for her intentions of expanding her son's youth experiences, she is no different than most of us. Just like most new leaders, the instinctive nurturing nature limits the "Game" part of the program. And it's OK because without the experience of the "Game", she doesn't know what she doesn't know. But in the past, it was the experienced guys with a youth experienced that basically kept the program somewhat on track of the "Game" and the "Purpose". So, why have I lost hope? I have said many time on this forum that units with adults who have a youth experience are at least three years ahead of all the other units. When the BSA brought female leaders into the troop program, that increased the pool of unexperienced adults around 70% through the next 10 years. It's been increasing even more since. Now it seems the adults with experience appear to be getting shouted down. Having a youth experience is becoming irrelevant because the "purpose" is what is really changing. And now the BSA is bringing girls into the mix for a family camping program, or something or other. I don't know what to say. I find it interesting that in 10 or 15 years in the future a troop program like ours 10 years ago will be seen as extreme. I'm shaking my head as I type. Those Adult leaders won't be able to imagine that that our scouts were allowed to camp without adults. And, after recent events, I have a lot of confidence that National will reinforce the will of the new generation of leaders making it even harder on those who want to follow the more traditional program. Barry

Well how old! It’s not like I remember the industrial revolution. My kids keep telling me I’m old, and my knees hurt on cold days. Isn’t that old enough? Barry

Us too. Or was it entire conversations of irony.🤔

You may be right, but I took it as sarcasm. Anything other wouldn't make sense.

Hmm, I took the Flags post as complementing stosh and TAHAWK for their passion and a big hole would be left in the program without them. Nothing about being anti feminist. Many of us believe the quality of the program for the boys will decline with the inclusion of girls. Hey, we watched the quality decline with the addition of female troop leaders. It is inevitable. That has absolutely NOTHING to do with how the female gender is respected. Barry

My experience is type A personalities will persevere. Either the unit leadership will learn to use the volunteers energy to the units advantage, or the type A person will eventually be the unit leader. As for recruiting, nothing works better than asking in person. I learned to match personal skills to the required need. I was rarely turned down because our human nature is to feel flattered when our time is requested specifically for our skills. And more often than not, the volunteer stayed in the position for a long time. Barry

Oh, I forgot. I enjoy people watching too. Barry

I'll be the nerdy one, I really really enjoy watching the scouts get it with decision making. I also found that I enjoyed being an adult trainer for the same reason. And it is the main reason I hang around here. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

OK So I have a personal story that reminds of the last few post. A personal friend brought here son around to visit our troop. Her expectations, like many parents new to the troop program, where different from her son. She want her son in a troop were all the adults looked sharp while working with the scouts who looked just as sharp. She didn't care for our troop where the adults sat in one room while the scouts did there thing in other rooms. And not all the scouts looked as sharp as the scoutmaster. ( Anyway, she and her son visited our troop FIVE times because he kept saying we were his choice. She kept resisting by visiting the two to choices until he decided with her choice. Well, her son won in the end. But even though we are friends, she was suspicious of the "boys" club of ASMs. So, even thought she attended all the meetings and campouts, she kept her distance. It was an odd situation, but we felt she would eventually fit in once she saw how our program worked. And sure enough, she visited me at summer camp to express how she finally got it. From her small tent she set up away from the other adults (boys club) and in the middle of camp, she observed older scouts on their own offering to help younger scouts with their classes. I don't know why that was the light bulb that turn on for her, but it changed her so much that she moved her tent to near the boys club. She bought in to our patrol method so much that she went and marketed for new scouts from her kids schools and church every year. She wrote a parents guide for new scouts that would make Badon Powel and Bill Hilcourt proud. She became the best CC we ever had. And all three of her sons became Eagles in our troop. I fully expect that same thing to happen with new members and the boys club on this forum because I think new members will learn what my friend learned, there is no boys club. Just like-minded people gathering in a place of their passion. Barry

Huh?

I guess, but even your reply is contradictory. "Stories told over and over", AND, "babies made all over the place". Where does "don't blame the girls" come from. I really don't feel you understand the members of this forum. Most of us are older with a lot of life and scouting experience. We have been Dancing for quite a long time. Barry

A professional a few years back told me that there are, what he called, scout babies floating around. That was back in the 90's. Based from what I hear about the more laid back European Scout Units, I have always wondered if they have that same issue. Never underestimate the power of raging hormones. As for the importance of adults in scouting, I am a big proponent of boy run patrol method. I am also convinced that adults set the tone of growth in all scouting units. As a result of that observation over the years, adults (the right adults) are the most important part of the program. BSA scouting is an adult program for preparing boys for adulthood. Err, um, preparing youth for adulthood. Barry

Stosh, you have posted chapters on your two scouts experience over the years. Your early posts speak of endepth coaching for the one scout. I'm not saying it is wrong, others here do it too. But it will never make sense to me. An Eagle is either ready for the world of adulthood, or he is not. That is my perspective. If a scout is treated unfairly, well then we go from there. As for continued maturing, yep. Barry Good answer. Barry

Yes, but based on whose perception of how to guide scouts through the Eagle requirements. I remember you asking how to lead a few MBs classes and your perception was not in line with how most experienced Scoutmasters would do it. So, who will set the standards for your sons. I think this is exactly the concerns are with what folks are calling helicopter parents. I don't know if you fit in that parent description, but your post seem to be a bit centered. Most of the better Scoutmasters don't base their actions from personal objectives. This is why I like this forum. Barry

Mr. stosh, I agree with the point your are making, I truly do. But there is something missing. The scout you describe in your post doesn't need any coaching for the EBOR. For any reason. Sounds more like a helicopter Scoutmaster. A lesson for all of us is no matter how old and how experienced we scoutmasters are, we Scoutmasters can keep learning to grow and mature more. Barry

My best friend growing up was the youngest of three boys, so we spent many hours in his room reading old Boys Life and Mad Magazines. Both were very appropriate and entertaining for boys in that day. One reflected the typical boys dreams for adventure. The other reflected the typical boys' sarcastic view of the culture. I'm going to have to disagree with Fred: If the BLs today are what boys today need, they are a very boring generation. My sons thought they were a waste of money. I haven't looked at Mad Magazine in a long time. Barry

This issue has been hashed out here long before you joined the forum. I think even the liberal members (and moderators) on this forum would agree the discussion has pretty much moved past sexist dialog. I believe rose colored glasses are the cause of the responses lately. Barry

The BSA did not get it right. I sent the original post mentioning this ceremony to point out Nationals dishonesty when they justified their ban as a form of hazing. They could have just said it is dangerous, and everyone would have said fine. But their justification of hazing was at the very least unprofessional. National has made a lot of decisions that have given me pause to their motivation and management ability of the organization. But, calling the Bobcat Ceremony an act of hazing was my first Red Flag of their callus unprofessionalism toward the organization's members. That was the mid 90s. Barry

Not at all. The complaints are of the sudden big picture policy change. Or rather how Nationals less than honest approach toward the change. I don't ever recall National discouraging family camping. So, it is certainly gonna raise suspicion. Barry

I tried the hammock because I'm always looking for something to smooth out the hard ground. But I couldn't fall a sleep while shaped like a taco shell. Scouts enjoyed it for naps. Barry

I know, I KNOW! The moderators work very hard and we are grateful for their help. I would certainly enjoy meeting anyone of them and buying them lunch or differ. I certainly don't want the job. Do I? But, that doesn't mean they are good at moderating or even do it right. Are moderators trained? Are they critiqued? And shouldn't the rest of the list have some kind of tool to rate or comment moderators performance. And, if our posts quietly disappear (other moderators even comment on post ghost), shouldn't the poster at least get a notice and explanation of their foul. I do realize forums are not democracies and the owner and rules are set by the owner. There is no free speech in forums. Still, are the moderators guided, or just left to their own agenda, emotions. Maybe I'm out of line, let me know. Thank you for your time. Barry

You really think your experience is in the same context of this discussion!🙄