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One of the surest signs of membership decline is the lack of Scouters coming to this forum to debate adult square knot insignia. I swear that used to be every other thread around here pre-COVID. 😛

We've had similar experiences with various sports coaches and then specifically baseball coaches when the more sports oriented son settled into that. Almost all of them were good and many, especially in baseball, were supportive of scouting. I think one big difference I've seen in youth athletics overall is that bad coaches, unlike bad adult scout volunteers, generally don't linger. The volunteer shortage in scouting means the organization seems to hang on to almost any warm body, no matter how problematic. The existence of umpires and league arbiters also mean that the kinds of rule and vague policy questions that plague scouting, and are the source of numerous social media sites and posts, are resolved more efficiently in sports. As for adult scouters, one possible reason is I think scouting experiences are much more fragmented and individual. One adult might have been in a unit that camped all the time; another adult might have been in a unit that was more advancement driven; another in a unit that was very integrated with a religion; yet another with one that was influenced by military connections and philosophies. When they re-experience it with their kids, it can seem completely different and offputting and definitely more complicated. Sports, on the other hand, can seem almost universally familiar. There have been rule and equipment changes but pretty much youth basketball, football, baseball, soccer players are playing the same game their parents did no matter what part of the country they were from. It's easier to re-onboard with and more understandable. They don't need as much training to be functional.

Wow, go out of town for a couple days and wow a lot was here to chew on. The all merit badge issue is in my opinion a matter of money. The scouts that I have personally seen get them all basically bought their way through it by having the cash to go-go-go. I don't believe a scout should have to master a skill to get a merit badge; however, at the same time I don't believe some of these scouts have retained any knowledge of the harder merit badges which defeats a huge part of the purpose of the merit badge process. The merit badge mills (MBU, etc ... )are less of a concern for me. They're such a mixed bag. Some scouts are coming in with pre-requisites and meeting the base standard, some are exceeding the standard, some are just being tossed a merit badge (which plainly sucks and hurts the scouts and program). I think the difficulty here is that there is a base standard, a minimum; we often get lost in the haze of debate over a scout who over achieves and people believing that should re-baseline the merit badge requirements. Merit badges are not on a bell curve, you do the standard you get the badge. I sat in at a MBU last year and I had a handful of parents and scouts lose their mind on me because they came in with literal reams of pre-work and while great, demonstrating above average achievement, it was a lot of work that was not required. I had to tell a scout and his parents that the standard was X and they did X+10. I had to tell them that the other scouts who just did exactly the requirement for the pre-requisites would get the exact same merit badge. They lost their minds, to them because little billy did more, so should everyone else. The requirements to become a MBC are horrible in every way. The standards are arbitrary and subjective. There are very few if any audits of skill going on. There are fiefdoms for certain merit badges. My personal hate is being told I was not qualified to be an MBC for a merit badge and I came back with "I have over 40 years experience and certified training in this, wtf do you mean I am not qualified to be an MBC for this?". When national rolled out the Citizenship in Society MB and all the hoops you had to jump through to be an MBC for that, where the heck are those hoops for any other MB? How can people get signed off to be an MBC without doing the 15min free online training? Too wrap this up I just had to talk a troop leader off the ledge who was going to lose his $%^& on our councils "MB Dean" when the MB Dean told the troop leader that he wasn't qualified to MBC Citizenship in the Nation; the troop leader is teacher who literally teaches a course called "Citizenship in America" at a local high school. The whole process is broken.

Sometimes I think we are just not getting through... I am an ASM working with a Patrol of younger Scouts. Last night, an older Scout interrupted this Patrol's Meeting to try to take a younger Scout out to work on his Life requirement #6, using EDGE to teach a skill. The younger Scout is the planner for the Patrol's next camping trip, and he was working out plans with his Patrol mates. The younger Scout was obviously frustrated by this demand (from the look on his face) and turned to me for guidance. I dismissed the older Scout and told him this was time for the Patrol Meeting, and that the younger Scout was to stay and finish his planning with his Patrol Mates. This morning, the parent of the older Scout sends a scathing missive to the Scoutmaster, outlining how his son has been trying to complete this requirement for months now, and is not getting any support from the Troop. (This is factually incorrect, and the SM handled the email response to the parent perfectly.) The parent made brief mention of the Patrol Meeting scenario last night, and made a comment in reference to it that makes me believe we are just not getting through... "I understand the importance of patrol meetings, but don’t get why they would take precedence over completing rank requirements." This, followed by threats to leave the Troop if the Troop does not immediately make and implement a plan to help their Scout finish the requirement. Important to note also, this older Scout rarely comes to meetings, and has not been on a Troop outing since Oct 2024. He did not make arrangements with anyone to try to work on the requirement during this meeting... smh https://youtu.be/V2f-MZ2HRHQ?si=ljwnDk_wERNKzhz4

We have one like this in our troop. Kid just likes doing the stuff he likes to do in scouts and doesn't care about the patches. Doesn't come to regular weekday meetings often, but is usually on the hikes and camp outs. He has the skills, I see him use them regularly, just doesn't feel like going through the motions for the sign offs. He's happy. Parents are happy. Other kids and adults like him and his parents. I have no doubt he lives by the Oath and Law.

They can vote with their feet.

So I attended my first event today with the new troop. The SM is "trained," but admitted he doesn't consider himself "trained," and is glad I am joining the troop. We started talking, and from the discussion, I realized a lot of info was left out of the online training. We are trying to recruit new Scouters, and I have a feeling I will be doing some informal training with them on camp outs.

This is a good method if the instructors are clear that "Hey you're doing this pretending to be the members of the PLC, you're learning through their eyes". That's not often clear though right? WB will help if your council actually runs WB correctly. My local WB is so disgusting that leaders are starting to travel out of council in order to try and experience the process correctly. Here's a juicy quote from a fellow leader "I'm going to PTC to do WB because I want to be able to come back and audit the local WB and tell these idiots how they don't have a clue as to what they're doing."

Not just Cubs, and it is worse. I had to talk to Scouts who cared less about Eagle because they know Eagles who honestly didn't earn it. They asked me "What's the purpose if everyone gets it." That was a difficult discussion. They got upset with folks being handed MBs without doing the work they did. Again another difficult discussion. But the one that hit me hard was OA elections. OA meant a lot to me growing up, and I remained active as an adult. Sons even helped me assemble regalia and the drum. None of my sons got interested in the OA. One because he saw folks he knew, and questioned how they got elected. Another was pumped to join, until the Call Out Ceremony, when one of his peers in his former troop, who hated camping and was a trouble maker, got called out with him. He lost all interest in the OA because, "If an honor society will let him in, it is not a big deal." Youngest was never interested because of his brothers' experiences. Which was good because the chapter would not stop to do unit elections after 3 years of asking for them. I know in some parts of the country, HS extracurriculars are also graded. I know at the HS I went to, your PE class was based on the sports you played. The practices and games in season counted as class, and the scheduled class period was mandatory study hall. Miss a practice or game, there went your grade. Band had it worse as they had to attend practices, games, competitions, and parades. Depending on the time of year, their music class was more practice, and not study hall. Ditto with missing something, because it affected your grade.

Sorry for the disjointedness. dealing with issues. Training is horrible, and adults do not know vital skills. How can you expect a good program if you cannot do the basics? Many units focus on advancement, a left over from Cub Scouts IMHO. And part of that is WDLs have not been getting the training they need on transitioning from Cubs to Scouts. And they keep on doing what they have been trained. Additionally advancement standards have indeed dropped, despite what folks say. When a Life Scout cannot do basic T-2-1 first aid, that is a problem. And if you try to have standards, you get complaints of adding to requirements or gatekeeping, and told they need to quit. Some folks quit. And some just focus on their units. As for professionals, the training I went through as a pro didn't cover programming, just the "3 Ms": Money, Membership, and Manpower. Yes, I had to have SM Fundamentals, Cub Scout Basic Leader Training, and Explorer Leader Basic (either the full class or self study course with advisor) in order to be a DE. But that was so that we could understand the programs we were working for. And I am told today's DEs not only getting less topics covered in training, but also are NOT required to have any of the program basic trainings done completed prior to professional training.. So very few pros have the abilties to run programs.

Scoutldr cmon….how else can scouts “get” all the MBs by 14?

Will be on WB staff next time around.

That was easy to predict. Merit badge mills. Hard to hold the line when just replace you. Part of the reason the eagle badge means less.

I'd like to agree but I think this is just standard briefing. The insurers will assert their rights and say that their policies allowed the investigation of every claim, something the Trust did instead, but doesn't bind an insurer. It would be a VERY bold step for a Judge to tell the insurers to pay up, and if they did it would be appealed in minutes. Again, the Trustee has 250 IRO claims she can send to trial and start to inflict pain on the insurers. Awards beyond the IRO amount then go to the "general fund" to serve all claimants. But, repeated losses (Juries tend to side with Survivors), would give the insurers real reason to cut deals.

I am always a fan of a friendly conversation. Scouting should NOT be complex. Scouts should not have BOR deadlines, etc. If a scout is ready, have a BOR. If a scout is just missing a SMC, then have the chat.

Some of these issues were caused by the councils and how they have things configured in AKELA. For example, one of my units hit "the naughty list" for not rechartering timely and I was confused so I spoke with the COR; the COR completed recharter the first week of December (all online). I then went to the DE and let him know that the unit rechartered online the first week of December, and was promptly notified that "whoopsie" council has an "introduced" manual process that blocks all recharters for a manual review that caused the issue. We're never going to have a smooth process if the professionals are introducing extra steps to try and keep this 1970's style. $237 isn't a lot of money in the grand scheme of things but what are the scouts getting back for that? The fee's are not bad if the scouts are getting value back; I just don't see the value back when visiting these high fee councils. One of the councils adjacent to mine has a $160 council fee; they have 18 more fulltime paid staff than my council and they have several hundred fewer scouts; what value is that council getting?

Insurer's first attempt at getting the Trust's suit against them tossed has been denied: USCOURTS-txnd-3_23-cv-01592-0.pdf Essentially, the insurers started playing their delay game and asked for the lawsuit to be moved to Illinois. The court has said "nice try, but no." So, it's a victory. BUT, expect there to be an apeal of this and any decisions unfavorable to the non-settling insurers. They are masters at delay and even with a trial moving forward it will be years until any resolution. This is a time value of money exercise and insurance attorneys are masters at delaying procedures so their employers hold onto their assets as long as possible. Still, let's appreciate any victory no matter how small, and hope some insurance CEOs start thinking "Okay, the cost of litigating this is starting to cost more than settling."

Possible reply: “Priority is given to skills training, which is primarily done in situ on campouts, which we use meetings to plan. We encourage skill mastery at meetings BY PLANNING IN ADVANCE with fellow scouts to set aside meeting time to do so.” Or, don’t waste your breath and just work for smiles.

There is a 2 month "lapsed" period; however, depending on what report a leader looks at a lapsed scout may or may not be represented. I really hope not; but, if they do decide to go back to pro-rated I hope they have membership at a different time than recharter.

Patrol time; the bane of the main character syndrome parent.

Yep.

So many things get in the way of real continuity. For our unit, early on it was job issues with the chosen individual suddenly being moved and a fortunate replacement stepping up. That resulted is a few decades of solid leadership, but in reality it was up t half a dozen doing the lifting with one at the paper apex. He and his number one ASM received the first two SB awards in our council in the 30's. Sam the SM noted then that they were in reality co-SM's. WWII brought strong step ups to help, and then Sam" son came back and stepped in for a long period. He was forced out due to adults feeling his approach was too outdated. Lots of turmoil and loss of focus, and it almost killed the unit. Finally a steady hand stepped in to level the waves. I was put in the spot against my preference at the time due to personal issues and my job, yet somehow am still there, but now a paper figurehead with others working to keep us afloat. I was forced out due to a stroke and another major issue, and our unit family discovered that issue of poor planning. We now struggle for outdoor options, but we have a few dedicated adults to hold us afloat, though none are outdoor people in the sense of consistent hiking and camping, which had been our focus for most of our history. The history, over a century is a factor though. So we struggle on and I encourage them from the pedestal they put me on and try to find some younger outdoor types, hopefully maybe even past alumni. We also struggle with the Methodist challenge since the lawsuit. Going into year 104 and hopefully can cement the history in place and use it to draw some new true outdoor Scouting adults. Should add that service has Always been a factor for our units, and that is part of its success. Also, still fewer than a hundred Eagles, so we cannot be accused of that often difficult focus.

Probably polishing my "annoyed stone" a bit, but the fact he did not make Eagle is secondary. Did he enjoy his time, and did he learn to live the Spirit?

I know when we did how a troop meeting is done with the old SM Fundamentals (SMF) Training, we were told we were to act like Scouts, and work as patrols during our meeting. Maybe because of my age at the time, but I didn't have problems. And I didn't notice any of my patrol mates having problems either. If memory serves, the model PLC used the actual SMF troop PLs with the rest of us watching. But I may be getting confused with BA22 and JLTC. But I agree 100%, training needs to focus more on interaction with Scouts through mentoring and counseling. That was a skill set, counseling PLs while being SPL or JASM, with both BA 22 and JLTC, was very applicable as an adult.

The pressure from sports to be "100% committed to the team" starts to manifest as kids move into Middle School. The same happens with the school play, and most other extra-curriculars. The adults in charge exert the pressure b/c it is more difficult for them to run their program with inconsistent attendance. Just like scouting is more of a hassle with inconsistent attendance. Best way for Scouts to address this is to focus on patrol activities, encourage highly active scouts (those who are 90-100%) to create their own patrol and plan/do stuff together. This high functioning patrol can act as the model for all the others.

I hate the trend toward Merit Badge Universities, Virtual "classes" (you don't even have to be in the same Council or State), and working on MB during troop meetings with a MBC registered "for Troop XX only". I am old enough to remember when the training I took (and later taught) that the Merit Badge program was designed to not only stir interests in subjects that may result in advanced skills, but an introduction to lifelong hobbies and vocations. The "Merit Badge Counselor" concept was to encourage the Scout to a) take initiative to choose a badge to work on, after consulting with his SM, b) take initiative to reach out to a counselor that he probably didn't know who was a recognized "expert" by vocation or avocation, and c) to work on the badge with the counselor's guidance independent of troop activities. AKA, the "adult association" method of Scouting. Now, none of that happens. Scouts are told to show up at the MBU, or Troop meeting and in some cases TOLD what badge they are going to work on, which in some cases means just sitting there through the "lecture" as a group. Sure, some MB are suited to be incorporated into the Troop Outdoor program, such as Camping, Cooking, Orienteering, Hiking, etc, and should be a byproduct of the program, not the purpose of it. Scouts get enough of "classroom" with an adult lecturing at them. Scouting is not school. I agree with the opinion that Scouting has been watered down to the point of being ludicrous. For us, back in the day, it was a way of life, not just an "extracurricular" to list on the college application.

While I agree in principle, at least in my area the council and district mB events are not staffed by qualified counselors. For example, the district person in charge of an event a few years ago asked me if I would counsel the Camping merit badge at an event. She pushed for (in her words) scouts with little experience to get the badge in a 2-hour session. A group of 20+ mind you. After I explained the requirements, and the impossibility to work with scouts and test them individually in that short time frame, not to mention the camping nights requirement. I said I was happy to do an "intro to camping" seminar with demonstrations and hands-on activities and leave the scouts with my contact info. Her reply was, "if you do the seminar can't you just sign off their blue cards?" Grrr. I said no, scouts need to personally demonstrate each requirement as written. In short, they found someone else. The system is broken.

That appears to be subjective on the part of the Trustee. My hunch, and it's only that, that cases where there was ample notice (abuser was known to the BSA prior) and the covering insurance company has a lot of primary liability for coverage, would be ripe for release.

Writ has been denied by SCOTUS. Additional $1.65 billion sitting in escrow can now go to the Trust. Hopefully the Trustee will have a statement and perhaps Town Hall soon. The appeal by an attorney representing 72 claimants only took 3 1/2 years post confirmation. Enjoy some rare good news.

Other reasons why the insurers wanted to move the case from Texas federal court to Illinois state court: 1. Trying to start at the bottom of the food chain with state court. Don't have to worry about that as this case is now wading its way through federal court. Less delay starting closer to the top of the food chain. 2. Attempt to freeze case indefinitely under Colorado River abstention. Denied which equals less delay. 3. Judge stated in opinion, "“Texas law is likely to apply to many of the issues in this case.” Texas has very strong bad faith statutes. In addition, historically Texas juries are not friendly to coverage avoidance particularly involving childhood sexual abuse claims and Texas has stiff Insurance Code penalties. Yes, the insurers can delay but the more they delay, the door opens more wide for "bad faith" penalties. In Texas, if a jury finds bad faith where policy benefits are withheld, damages are not capped and attorney fees are recoverable. I am sure this is one of reasons why bad faith was included in the lawsuit. In short, risk is growing exponentially for the insurers. A normal loss = policy limits A bad-faith loss = uncapped damages.

Different experience here... 1. The new registration regime actually caused more work to ensure that Scouts remained registered, and could, therefore, enjoy the benefits of "membership". (I'll elaborate on that in a bit.) Because the transaction now goes directly from family to BSA, the burden of action was shifted to the family. Most families are not fully on top of all the minutiae they have to manage in their lives, and the required action of reading the emails from National (which probably went to spam) and figuring out what to do to register their Scout (admittedly a very low priority), especially around the holiday period, meant that about one third of our Scouts did not have a current paid registration going into recharter. 2. Once the recharter process started, our Troop became "locked" somehow, and no adults or Scouts who delayed could register in the unit until the recharter was complete. Those who attempted got some sort of "Unit Not Valid" message, and the system would not process their registration or payment. Now you have doubled or tripled the amount of work a family / Troop has to do to get on top of this, as they have to monitor the recharter, then notify parents to try again, and then do the payment process again. 3. Even though there is a "grace" period for individual registrations, until the unit recharter went through, adults in our unit/district/council could not manipulate calendars or input advancements (we'd get a message for a Scout that said they did not have a valid membership.) After a huge outcry to District Commissioners/District Staffs/Registrar/Council Staff (folks at our January Roundtable were quite testy), the council office pulled folks from other duties to assist Registrar in tasks needed to complete the effort. Still not done for all units due to adult application issues (for position changes to make sure a unit has the required leadership to recharter), but the majority in our District are now done. Finally, consider the amount of money being wasted on this process... every family has to pay something like a 3% convenience fee to do this online with a credit card. For those who went to the Scout office and paid in person, because this was an option presented to avoid the card fee, their registrations were held up until staff went through that paperwork in office. (Of course, the checks were cashed right away, but renewals were delayed... optics on that not so good either.) I'm with @Tron... these two actions should be de-coupled by some significant space in the calendar. My take: Units should be prompted to renew FIRST. Once a unit renewal is complete for the next year, the demand signal for individuals to renew their memberships in that unit should go out... There are a lot more moving parts to this, I'm sure...

WOW, who could have predicted rolling registration would be a "Charley Foxtrot?" 🤔

That would make far too much sense.

While we have not seen specifics on how this may be implemented, we have been told that the 'rolling registrations' will be going away and we will be going back to everyone expiring/renewing at the same time.

A conversation with the scout might yield some pertinent information.

While I'd never push advancement hard, I think it's still a useful tool for attracting and retaining kids with a high need for achievement. Based on what the OP shared (Scout attends a very competitive high school, but hasn't advanced in 3 years), it sounds like the program might be failing him. Agreed, it doesn't make sense.

There is a mechanism already in place... 1. Scout tells parents they would like a new Scoutmaster, and articulates GOOD reasons for it. Parents tell committee: committee evaluates and takes action, with advice and consent of COR. 2. Scout tells Boards of Review they think they'd like a new Scoutmaster, and articulates GOOD reasons for it. (BoR is made of Committee Members and parents.) Committee evaluates and takes action, with advice and consent of COR. Although I understand the sentiment, youth must not make the decision of who should be Scoutmaster. (Inmates running the asylum and all ) To implement this would mean an abdication of responsibility by COR and Troop Committee. Unfortunately, reality is often that the Scoutmaster is simply the person with a pulse who said they'd do the job. In 45+ years of Scouting, I've never seen a unit with a decent succession plan. Still looking for that unicorn. (Yes, I have failed to get this accomplished in many a unit. If I was allowed to be the benevolent dictator, things would have been different.)

It's a great idea and good on you for trying but liability is the issue. They are in no authoritative position to confer any kind of credentialling and if an incident occurs it opens a can of worms that could only lead to enhanced liability. It's easier to just say park it and drive in.

Yes, staff driving a units vehicle or towing a units trailer is not normal. I can't say if it is unique to Beaumont; however, I have been to many scout camps and never experienced or heard of this before.

There is another layer. We rent a trailer from a national truck and trailer rental company. The parties to the rental agreement are well defined and documented in the contract. A third party using their vehicle to tow the rented trailer puts me in material breach of the contract and voids the purchased damage waiver and contents insurance. In the event of damage or worse I would be on the hook and then have to pursue council and the inept driver. That would be after I had to explain why I breached the contract. Oddly enough the solution is let the units bring in and park their trailers in identified spots in the campsites. I know they refuse to consider that.

For us, anyone driving camp (council) vehicles must be listed on the council's insurance policy. Units move and park their own trailers, and those vehicle operators assume liability risk on their own insurance policies per the G2SS, Transportation section: https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss11/ 13. All vehicles must be covered by automobile liability insurance with limits that meet or exceed the requirements of the state in which the vehicle is licensed. It is recommended, however, that coverage limits are at least $100,000 combined single limit. Any vehicle designed to carry ten or more passengers should have limit of $1,000,000. For insurance information refer to the Insurance section in the Guide to Safe Scouting. 14. When towing the tow vehicle driver has the knowledge, skills, and abilities to operate the vehicle with the attached unit. That your council is having "...adult staff using their personal vehicles tow all troop trailers..." is troubling. Council cannot require any staff member to use their personal vehicle for camp requirements, without remuneration and ensuring adequate liability coverage. If they make this some sort of condition for employment, or otherwise require employees (which camp staff are) to use their personal vehicles in this way, they are asking for trouble. Good luck convincing them

Another reason on adult attitudes was WHEN (emphasis) they were in Scouting. I know a former Scouter who was an Eagle in the 1972-1979 "Improved Scouting Program" era. That was when it was possible to be an Eagle without a single night of camping. He could not understand why camping was important.

As much as I like the idea, the cow is out the barn regarding advancement. I remember watching some national online meeting during COVID, I think it was 2021 National Meeting, where National was praising a FL council for having online MBUs and awarding over 20,000 MBs during the pandemic. As for adults bringing back integrity, you already have adults trying to cut corners on training. I had adults trying to get me to sign off on their training, but would not staff a class, or when it was allowed, test out of the class. Sorry if I am pessimistic.

That is part of the problem. Sports tend to want your entire life to revolve around the sport, and nothing else. Or there will be consequences. I still remember when the martial arts dojo sprang a last minute weekend seminar with 4 days notice. Happened to be the same weekend an aunt from out of town was visiting. The owners expected my kids to attend the last minute weekend seminar instead of the activities we had planned with their aunt. The next session after the weekend seminar, all those who didn't attend were chewed out. And when it came time to spar, those who attended were being encouraged to beat the crap out of those who didn't attend. When I talk to parents of kids involved in sports, all I hear is how their lives are completely turned around and focused on that sport: school team, travel leagues, camps, workshops, etc. Scouting doesn't have that mentality. I think some folks want the low advancement standards so their child can get eagle and move on to focus on sports.

So, despite a few strong programs in every area, unit programming seems to be lacking. I suggested more council / district events run by professionals and experienced volunteers, but everyone's experience there indicates those are also hit and miss. Is Scouting just not a great program anymore? 🤔 Since we're still in the Scouts vs. Sports thread: I was recently provided a list of possible summer camp dates for my 3rd grader, and I (as a Den Leader) couldn't commit to any of them until basketball camp schedules come out. My son is on the top team, but probably only the 6th or 7th best player in his grade. He risks being bumped to the B-Team next year if organizers don't think we take basketball seriously in the offseason. Would he probably be OK if he missed a week of basketball for Scout Camp? Yes. Is he good enough that he wants to risk it? No. There is a definite FOMO / scarcity element to youth sports.

I was invited to teach a MB at an MBU. Told them point blank it would be a partial. Sent out email telling Scouts in the class what things they could do before the MBU to get the MB. I got a lot of complaints, and was never asked back. Irony was it was Indian Lore MB, and i had a full blood Lakota stationed at the air base "auditing" my class. I got a lot of praise from her for what we went over. Too bad she wasn't in the session with the smart aleck who asked "which is more violent, Rugby or Lacrosse" My response was "While rugby is a thug sport played by gentlemen, and rugby's unofficial motto is 'Give Blood, Play Rugby,' no one ever was enslaved or executed for losing a game of rugby whereas in some versions of lacrosse losers were enslaved or ritually sacrificed. So Lacrosse is the more violent of the two." Shut him down the rest of the class.

Based on what I am reading the general consensus seems to have shifted from the issue not being cost but the youth/families interest and a limitation on time. I want to point out that I and others have mentioned the limited space at the top of the sports (varsity). I really like the baseball analogy since there are so many large scale feeder systems throughout the whole country. Most towns have a little league/peewee baseball league that has hundreds of kids in it; and that feeds up to the local team which at most has 18 kids in most states. In my area juniors and seniors can get dumped down to JV or FROS/FROSH due to less roster restrictions. Normally being demoted down is a punishment for behavior or grades; once in a while I'll notice a kid dumped off of varsity and it's because they have an injury and they're basically practicing at a lower level to stay connected to the team in active recovery; kind of stupid in my opinion. What are these sports and clubs offering that scouting does not? If your kid is 1 in hundreds at the grade school level and their only shot is to make 1 of 18 spots at the varsity level; what's the connection? What's the draw? I think it's that the sports are basically saying "your kid will get X" and they deliver.

Today is truly a historical day in the BSA Bankruptcy. Almost 59,000 survivors will see a path forward without having a tiny majority being able to throw up roadblocks. The plan itself is not perfect and has many warts but now we can see the end. I still would not vote yes for it, and I believe many who did now have regrets however, many of my fellow survivors would recover nothing for their suffering if the Supreme Court had decided to uphold the Lujan writ. You will see many posts about how little you may ultimately receive (some say less than 10%) but remember they have no crystal ball or insider information. the ultimate percentage amount will depend on the outcome of Houser vs the non-settling carriers. Try hard to not let the Debbie Downers rain on today's good news.

It took me a bit, but I found the part that defines this situation. Your description is not accurate as the gap would be >5 days. The council could define it as a "day camp" or not if the gap is 5 days or more. "Except for day camps as provided below, a camp is an overnight program . In determining the length of a camp, count all nights where any participants (other than staff) are present with substantially the same camp leadership or camp staff, regardless of what the camp is called, unless there is a gap of five or more nights between sessions . Camp includes the following classifications: 1 . Day camps . A day camp is a council-organized program designed for Scouts for two or more days, under council-retained leadership at an approved site with no overnight . The program may operate at age-appropriate Cub Scout, Scouts BSA, Venturer, or Sea Scout level . A council may choose to treat a one-day event (without an overnight) as a day camp."

I could write a book of pet peeves...