Leaderboard

The other day I was in the grocery store doing my regular shopping. As I walked in I noticed another gentleman look my way. Not sure if he knew me or just saw me wearing hiking clothing. He asked if I was in Scouting and was shopping for a campout. I said, yes I am in Scouting but if the scouts were going camping THEY would be doing the shopping, I would just be the driver. He nodded and said, "good man". Anyway, thought I'd share the story here with you all.

A lot of these issues are caused by councils not planning MB events far enough out in advance using MB classes / events as profit centers Fixed it for you

You say sadly; however, a multi patrol troop can easily put on a resident/long term camp on its own for a fifth of the cost and get all.of the non MB experience in without the annoyance of being on a campnwide schedule. If OA took the long term camp requirement out the resident camps.in my state would easily lose 25 to 50% of their campers.

National knows that there is a problem. National has some effort going into recruiting subject matter experts and having national level people train them correctly on the MB process. The issue is at the council and district level, and I believe that is because the MBC training is too brief, has no test, never expires, and far too many people are teaching MB and not even registered as an MBC. National could fix this, I would propose a 3 step solution. S1) Update MBC training, apply a test, training expires every 2 years. S2) Tell councils that they cannot restrict the number of MB an MBC can teach, instead tell councils they can only restrict what is considered qualified to be an MBC. S3) Force every district and council committee to have sitting and meeting MB committees.

Have you seen the commercial where things are going haywire and the female says we need someone who knows COBOL and the guy says what's COBOL.? Scouting HQ IT uses this program.

It seems to me that you cant be against a focus on advancement when everyone is constantly talking about "famous eagle.scouts" or "being an eagle is an accomplishment" or "making eagle will help you in life". The moment star, life and eagle went from an award that 1st class scouts could earn to ranks it became a goal. BPs original goal of every scout should want to be a 1st class scout turned into every scout should want to be an eagle.

"The work is done by whoever shows up".... Show up. "Gee, Somebody ought to do x y z.".... Be that somebody. " Can't be late , somebody else will help there." .... Yeah?

Yeah. With such a focus on advancement and eagle, our slogan has taken a back seat. Many years ago I used to do a SM minute relating the slogan and motto. I wish I could find it, but the gist was Our slogan and motto are not separate ideas but intimately intertwined. This is not by accident. Be Prepared is the more common phrase used to describe Scouts, and often it is in context of tools, knowledge and skills. Do a Good Turn Daily is how we are recognized as scouts through our deeds. I challenge us to think of how Be Prepared and Do a Good Turn Daily are not exclusive ideas, but are the flip sides of the same coin; the mindset of being prepared on one side and the action of doing a good turn on the other. Phrased in question form: Have you prepared to do a good turn today?

You are not a free unit you are totally owned by your CO.

https://www.aol.com/lifestyle/teen-helps-elderly-woman-cross-203010206.html Not sure why this seems to have gone viral. I could not help but think of the long running joke about the Scout helping old ladies across the street. But, my point is simply this is part and parcel an example of what our society seems to have lost, and the fact that Scouting has this as a brick in its foundation.

Oa is owned by and for bs camps . A week long stay where housing and meals are provided is not near the starting idea of a week long event with patrol cooking and activites in tents you carried and set up. My first years our troop did its own. My first time going to council camp was for an event i won.

Way to much . I will make it much simpler start with summer camp where they have 100% control.

As others have said, national won't change things because it hurts their bottom line. Heck they encourage. I remember one council in FL was given all kinds of praise in a NAM video on the number of MBs they awarded during COVID. Sadly this is the attitude of too many parents. Summer camp is supposed to be more than MBs. The attitude is why a camp will give Basketry away, when Scouts did 1/2 the requirements. That is why summer camps give away Canoeing to folks who spend 15 minutes on the water every day, and when the Scouts go on a canoe trek with the troop, cannot do basic maneuvers. And I can go on.

It is interesting that the original question I posed had to do with why the media picked up story that basically represents someone outside of scouting doing a good deed, and treated it as special. Meanwhile we have the Slogan that we in theory expect our youth to consider doing, but we seldom discuss the subject. A while back I stepped in early in the meeting and posed the query to the group, asking them to describe how they may have met that concept of the Slogan. The discussion morphed into a real interactive thing. We talked about a good deed, and what it meant. We talked about how large an effect it might have and whether simply holding a door, for example was a good deed, and that counted. They should not consider themselves a failure in regard to the Slogan if it was not extraordinary. It eventually morphed into also talking about how the Motto interacted with the Slogan, and touched on the Law. The larger question that now comes to me is how often do we bypass these kinds of opportunities? Do we so focus on getting the "plan" for the meeting accomplished that we lose opportunities? Maybe we need to not be so fixated on some things, but instead listen for these opportunities and explore with our youth. I just read a FB piece about how we, as adults and too often educators, neuter the curiosity of our youth for various reasons. It discussed at what age the kids stop asking why, and how it is related to our NOT taking the time to find out if we do not, ourselves, know. How, if we change direction and explore it with them, that it may have a much larger impact on them, but we also open ourselves again to curiosity. The article was really leading up to an encyclopedic book on what are the most common "why or what" questions of young kids. But, while it was come on for the book, it also did open my eyes a bit more, even at my age. We may need to step back a bit and reevaluate our approaches, not just in Scouting, but in general. I am 82, and I just realized that I have actually learned something about the larger world, and also have gotten a different perspective on why we may do what we do.

Council and district advancement committees?! Send me to the promised land where these exist, meet, and care about more than eagle packets.

Guide to Advancement, para 7.0.2.3... "It is sometimes reported that Scouts who have received merit badges through group instructional settings have not fulfilled all the requirements. To offer a quality merit badge program, council and district advancement committees should ensure the following are in place for all group instructional events. • A culture is established for merit badge group instructional events that partial completions are acceptable expected results. • A guide or information sheet is distributed in advance of events that promotes the acceptability of partials, explains how merit badges can be finished after events, lists merit badge prerequisites, and provides other helpful information that will establish realistic expectations for the number of merit badges that can be earned at an event. " If only we would follow our own literature

When our council started adding a "fee" for these types of things a majority of our leaders sound off negatively. After poor attendance due to the fee stuff, partly due to units refusing to particpate, they revised the program. They now find sponsors for costs and no scout is charged. Guess what, attendance grew dramatically. The next step then was a group meting of leaders where our concerns were hear, mostly not prepping the prerequisites and working on unit communications. I personally stopped doing counseling for the events, and I told them why, though part was just my age and related issues, it was also getting few follow ups from the partials. Those that came prepared, also tended to follow up and arrange a meeting to finish. And that is how I feel it should shake out. I should note that I did have a few parents and a leader or two that were upset I did not sign the blue cards automatically. But, I also had a couple that were glad I did not.

THAT. IS. IT! (caps for emphasis). One district had an MBU on the same weekend for decades. Well organized, experts for MBCs, etc. However council was not making any money off of it. They created their own, the same exact weekend, but at a much higher price. Original group followed NCAC, and raised costs a bit so the council could make $1/person profit. You think council would be happy? Council cancelled the event one month before it was to occur, and after the registration deadline to their MBU.

A lot of these issues are caused by councils not planning MB events far enough out in advance.

I was never asked back to one MBC because I sent a pre-requisites list, which didn't get sent, and didn't give away MBs. If it is a MBC with council affiliations, no. If it is a museum doing their own thing, doubtful. Sidenote, I ran an Indian Lore MB day as an OA fundraiser/promotions/equipment maker event. Yes, we charged at the time a steep amount, $35 in the early 2000s, but that included craft supplies, and lunch. Folks knew they would not be able to complete the MB in advance, unless they did the prerequisites. And guess what THE SCOUTS HAD FUN (emphasis), new OA chapter got publicity, and we got enough money to get some ceremonial regalia. My point is, if you make it fun, and let Scouts know in advance, they will still come.

At last night's meeting, one of my Scouts proudly presented a counselor-signed blue card for a merit badge. (No leader signature.) He had attended, on short notice, a "merit badge event" at a local museum (where he had to pay a fee) and had been counselor-approved for a badge. When I asked him about the badge, I sprinkled in the questions I always ask... 1. Did you read the requirements for the merit badge? "No" 2. Did you talk with a Troop leader before meeting with the counselor? "No" 3. Did the counselor review the requirements for the merit badge with you before starting? "No" So then, we reviewed the requirements.... one of the requirements was a task that he could not have completed at the event... 4. Did the counselor ask you to bring any work you had completed ahead of time? "No" 5. So how did the counselor see your work for requirement X ?? "He never saw it." (Later, at home, I check the website for this event, and there are no pre-requisites listed.) 6. Oh? Well, did you complete requirement X? "Yes, I did it at home after I got back." Would you show me that work? He does... Good job! 7. But, the counselor gave you a signed and completed blue card without having X done? "Yes" OK, thanks! Hey, let's review the instructions in your Scout Handbook on how to earn a merit badge (page 416). We review together, and I emphasize the appropriate points... I review blue card instructions with him. I show him the statement on the blue card which says "The applicant has personally appeared before me and demonstrated to my satisfaction that all requirements have been met for the..." We talk about the meaning of "Trustworthy" and "Obedient", and whether the counselors actions reflected those values, and what he, the Scout, should do in a case like this. (Let a leader know ) I signed the card and congratulated him on his badge. So, given that, in the past, I have never once gotten feedback on any of the concerns I submitted, once again I submitted Reporting Merit Badge Counseling Concerns. https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/512-800_WB.pdf Do you think I'll get any constructive feedback on this one?

Sadly You are right. Even my sons complained about folks getting awarded MBs. One Scout was so fed up with this, he almost gave up on Eagle, saying it is meaningless.

Siblings and parents have carveouts under the new program. Siblings of the same sex can tent and buddy system regardless of age now (since last summer). There is also an "accommodation" for parents to tent with scouts as well (since last fall). We're in a whole new world scouters.

Yes, unless they completed the new S.A.F.E.guarding Youth training after its release in mid-May of 2025, in which case they will complete an approximately 20-minute refresher on their due date. I have stressed this many times to leadership in my district, as many did not realize that if they did the old course on let's say May 1, 2025, and got an email with a certificate set to expire on May 1, 2027, that as TRON stated that expiration date was changed to May 31, 2025. (This is what I experienced, as I redid YPT at the end of April last year and then did the new course as soon as it was released) As soon as I saw that the refresher was up and available I sat down and completed it. It is pretty well done and has a test at the end. As long as you pass the test (80% to pass) you are good for another year. If you do not pass the test, it will not allow you to rewatch the refresher, you must redo the entire 90-minute course.

Work at finding liaisons with other youth groups, including maybe church groups and such. Put together a cooperative or two with local outdoor and sporting stores that run programs for climbing and so on. If feasible, work with local professional groups to use the site for spot training opportunities. Make serious cooperative out reach to local colleges and schools to develop teaching sites at the camp. All things that could be workable, or so it seems to me. Setting rates would need to be fair, and not made to maximize any profit The main thing would be to simply keep trying new ideas and finding cooperative options Corporate weekends might be offered where they could use the sites for company gatherings. The goal woould be to make the property viable, but also to have the community see it as an option. Working with unions might be viable, both in the city and at camp facilities. Union does training at the camp and the camp gets things fixed professionally. Be creative, and if it does not pan out, try other things. Some camps may have the type of location to grow Christmas trees, so that becomes part of the prograam and support. If the camps have unique locations with interesing geograpy, or in our case a fscsimile fort, offer it for movie sets; maybe even incorporate it as part of the MB program to do that. Keep that "can't" at bay.

While the expense issue may have feet, it is not totally accurate. The facility has proven useful and viable over more recent times. Will it recoup its cost; that is up to those who can think outside the boxes. Most camps, once outfitted with basic needs, can be used for many things besides camping or special programs. And there seems no reason, other than attitude or bias to somehow not offer the space and facilities to outside groups, both as ways to offset expenses, but also as effective utilization of facilities and structures. It might take a while, but it can and should reach a balance. The same thing seems common to many council camps that have fallen or barely hanging on. The local council has upkeep issues, especially as the facility gets older. But, while the have, for example, say a high level climbing wall, it is standing unused more often than used. Iff a program of cooperative use with local climbing groups and maybe even schools were to be developed, it could becaome a viable resource and improve all parties programs. A camp has kitchen and dining hall that is used during Council activities, but often sits unused. Could a local area cooking school perhaps use it for training in the off-season? Could that same school fill a summer need as well that is often a real struggle? The camp is located relatively near seasonal outdoor opportunities; could it be rented out when not used by the council, allowing more people to experience the winter sports and so on? We come back to the missed opportunity position far too often. Would the ideas work; probably with proper planning and follow. But someone says "can't", or we do not have the sources, or other excuses, so the facility ages and disappears. Not only is this ignorance, but it is lost opportunity. Some camps also could be used by the FS for training locations, though currently our misguided (my opinion) leadership is doing all it can to decimate the FS and Parks. Our now lost camp a decade or two back became a six week + basecamp for a major wildfire fight. They took over the whole facility and it proved viable and also put our camp and council in a good light. FS for a long time came as part of the Fire Safety skills program in the summer, bringing trucks and tools to share and demonstrate. But could the site have also been an option regularly for training how to fight the fires, even for non Scouting people? So many times "Can't" is the answer, and nobody challenges that. Our lost camp was built by local groups who felt the Scouting program needed the

My friend sent me the end of March numbers 2026. 767394 2025 949373 i don’t know if those numbers include LFL

You don't mean that spending almost $1,000,000,000 (yes BILLION) dollars on a property / facility that really has no purpose, did not meet an unfilled need, and has no road to profitability may have a negative impact on the organization that dumped all that money into it?? I am shocked.

Our council has said they will work with other donors to have it be free free besides unit dues. Our SE said it wouldn't be very trustworthy to say "free" and then turn around with our hand out and say "well, you still have to pay us".

You'd almost think that old English dude was on to something when he said, "The one part which I can claim as mine towards promoting the movement is that I have been lucky enough to find you men and women to form a group of the right stamp who can be relied upon to carry it on to its goal. You will do well to keep yours eyes open, in your turn, for worthy successors to whom you can, with confidence, hand the torch. Don’t let it became a salaried organization: keep it a voluntary movement of patriotic service." (emphasis added) https://thescoutingpages.org.uk/bps-last-message/

You should have another discussion with your CO rep and include your DE. Otherwise, contact an attorney/cpa to get the correct answer - Not here with a keyboard advisor