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Lot of good comments Summary is the BSA (SA??) has not fully defined what it is and what they do. When I joined way back when it was a game with a purpose, we had adventures, learned things, sampled many different hobbies and interests, and most importantly learned to work in groups and take care of ourselves. As we matured we went from follower to leader. Over the years the BSA strayed from that to want to become the swiss army knife of youth groups. We do everything. Also more focus on advancement and formal learning and less emphasis on experiential learning. 1/2 the required

How about going back to an earlier version?

I would say my troop is pretty outdoorsy. We camp 10/12 months, with a lock in IF possible in December and 2 weekends of Scouting For Food in February, being the 2 months we do not camp. Even during COVID, we continued to meet, virtually and outside, had monthly day trips in the outdoors, and even did our own summer camp. Yes we car camp, but we also backpack, cycle, and do canoeing and whitewater activities. And the Scouts pick Summer Camps with the program they want, with the only caveat being it has to be within an 8 hour drive. The last 2 batches of Webelos that visited, the activitie

I have been told that Scouting has been my surrogate family, with the adults in my life being surrogate fathers, the Scouts in my youth as surrogate brothers, and depending upon what age as an adult I was, me serving in a older brother or father role. I have served in various roles for over 30 years, and until recently also had a passion for Scouting. Read some of my posts over the past 5 years so see issues. I have rebuilt so much over the years, and the current state of Scouting is deeply depressing: declining membership, inability to get council support, ad nauseum. My troop is dying

18 Eagle required MBs can be done fully/nearly fully indoor while 4 (cooking, camping, hiking and cycling) have substantial outdoor requirements. BSA lost me on "scouting is outdoors" when they added Citizenship in Society merit badge. Most of my Eagle Scouts have said Wilderness Survival should be Eagle Required but yet BSA went with another discuss/research/report type badge. In addition, my Troop was the only one to camp outdoors during our recent district's Klondike. In the past the Patrols camping outdoors would be awarded more points...not this year. In fact, the Patrols who did

25+ years from now, folks will still be saying "Boy Scouts," "BSA," etc. Just look at Venturing and all the older names that had nothing to do with the Venturing program still in use, i.e. 'venture crews," "Venture Scouts," etc. And I can tell you from the discussions i have had since it was announced, folks with years of irreplaceable knowledge, skills, abilities, time, and treasure are upset. In my neck of the woods we have lost a lot of folks over recent membership changes, and finding replacements is difficult to impossible. Best money example is the current FOS goal is 5%, yes FIVE

I think that changing the name to appease simpletons isn't a good solution, but it seems to be the way the BSA wants to go anyway. Rather than expect people to be critical thinkers and rise up to the organization's level, it will come down to meet them. We saw this with the elimination of the Bobcat badge. Simpletons were confused so the solution was to destroy a legacy rather than insist that people take time to learn and understand. To me, the BSA has been the only constant in my life. My parents divorced when I was young, so neither was in my life 100% of the time. We moved around

After talking to a professional recently, the writing in the wall that the "trial" period of 8/24-7/25 will be successful and full integration will occur. Also from the discussion, if you do not go coed, the council may not be able to help you recruit. I know my troop's volunteers will be meeting about folding the troop at the end of the year. Between existing challenges, and hint that we need to go coed or we will not be supported hit hard. But as @Scoutldr said, That is the sentiment of a lot of the boys I have worked with over the years. Sadly there are fewer and f

And then you join and realize 90% of BSA activities are meetings and merit badge clinics where you have to write reports while adult leaders argue if googling information for your report was sufficient or if you should have used an Encyclopedia written in 1982.

This thread is bumping with all of the controversial topics. I don't buy the stages of decline. Most of the changes are in line with the international scouting community (the name is more inline with international naming conventions, 173 of the 216 WOSM members are full coed at last count, shooting sports is heavily regulated in most countries, this seems like standardization not grasping for straws.). I've heard the moms discussion points, it's what BSA teaches the professional scouters to focus on. For some reason there is an emphasis on hooking moms on the value of the program and lit

I gave up referencing myself a while ago, so I won’t link to the thread that shows this data, but here goes anyway … while BSA was mulling over including girls in packs and troops (under the corporate double-speak “family scouting”), there was a WOSM census that revealed that membership declined in nearly every European country immediately after their scouting organization incorporated girls. Recovery to where they would have the same number of boys as they did before desegregation would take decades, if it has occurred yet at all. The UK took 25 years. So, if BSA is indeed about serving

To acquire Venturers in any significant number, the registration fee will have to be less than the cost of a pizza and a movie. While we’re rumoring, scuttle but says there are co-Ed troops being piloted. But even on an informal basis this is happening. I was manning a station at spring Camporee and saw several patrols of mixed sexes. One or two may have bee ad hoc, but a couple operated well enough that I figured they weren’t segregated OPO.

The obvious answer is that we haven't changed the name of the organization enough. I'm certain people will be knocking the doors down now.

Last time National improved the program, Bill Hillcourt had to come out of retirement to lead it.

We have faced some of the same challenges During visits (AOLs were off with the scouts as we meet in the woods behind the church) our leadership discussed with the parents the various outings (gorge trip, boating, kayaking, backpacking, biking, etc); youth led troop, servant leadership, Scouts camping away from leaders, etc etc. As I watched the parents and listened to the few questions, my comment as we huddled after...they are not buying what we're selling. They expect Cubs part 2 and we scare them. Programming for 11 year olds means the youth likely leave in a year or 2. Need to c

Another decision not mentioned in National Report, FleishmanHillard ($$$) which has previously worked with the BSA, was chosen as PR Agency of Record (AOR) in November 2023 with a focus on the rebrand. BSA Chief Marketing Officer (CMO) Michael Ramsey said his team is amplifying the organization’s message to reach youth and families across the country via national press releases and a social strategy that “leans hard into” Instagram and LinkedIn. “We have a lot of our leaders on LinkedIn,” said Ramsey. “But video is the backbone of a lot of the things we are doing. We are also lookin

I wonder if work culture has also had an impact on membership declines. Both of my parents had good, steady jobs with the same employer for 30+ years, but they rarely worked over 40 hours per week. Today, my wife and are always within 20 feet of our laptops. We log-in during off hours to get caught up or work ahead. At times, I wonder if this is really necessary since our jobs aren't that great; however, they are good enough where we don't want to lose them. I'm sorry to say the thought of taking kids camping for a full weekend sounds exhausting.

I’ve been preaching for a more simple cub program for many years because it pulls down the membership for all the other programs. But, I fear it’s the troop program that will be changed, which doesn’t need change. National has rarely shown to make changes to better the program toward a better program. Barry

I've been thinking about it for a couple of days. I've come to the conclusion that the BSA was pretty much my home. It may sound silly, but I can remember the first day I walked into the BSA office in my current council. I had never set foot in that place before, but I felt like I had just walked into my home once again. I did a little reading on rebranding this morning and found out that it's not unusual for brands to lose 20% of their loyal customers following rebranding. I was extremely passionate about the BSA and worked hard to revive a unit, expand the program, and be involved as mu

Another random thought, it does explain why Jim Kirk was never a Boy Scout. https://y.yarn.co/193eb197-66ad-4b5c-843a-0519c7779c8b.mp4

It's OK for us to be a little different. For all our troubles, the US is still exceptional in many respects. We've gifted the world airplanes, the telephone, the internet, Post-It notes, and sliced bread. Clearly, we're getting a few things right over here. 🙂 I respect that your experience may have been different from mine and believe yours to be valuable too, but most kids in the US already get 8 hours of mixed-gender interaction in school. Many extra-curriculars, aside from athletics, are also integrated. Boys and girls already have ample opportunities to interact. The si

All I can say is keep up the good work. What do you and your scouts want to get out of the program? Awards? Ranks? Badges? Or is it about learning life skills? Encourage them to pursue Wilderness Survival in addition to Eagle requirements (7 MBs are elective). If your scouts don't like your district Klondike stop going. Find another one. Keep building skills, ranks and awards will come.

You must be doing it wrong. 75% of scouting is outing.

"Normalizing" is not always a good thing.

Not necessarily. I talked to one professional recently, and the implied message was that we need to create a coed pack, and have a girls troop, or no longer get recruiting support from council. Grant you We have had 0 support for over a decade now, so it will not make a difference. Where there is a will, there is a way. I cannot tell how many couples I saw when I was involved in Venturing.

I guess I don't understand the need for "affinity groups" in Scouting. To me, when one joins Scouting, one sheds all of one's other identities. Same when I go to work. In Scouting, I'm whatever position is on my sleeve and an Eagle Scout. I'm not Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, etc. I'm not gay, straight, etc. I'm a male only for YP and bathroom reasons. I'm not Dr. Armymutt, I'm Mr. Armymutt or just Armymutt. When someone holds tightly onto whatever they are outside of Scouting, I question their values and their commitment to Scouting. If the idea of simply following the Scout Law

There is literally no need to change the name. The stated reason is to bring in more people. Tells me that they don't care about the people already in who have been in for years and are totally cool with most of the changes - I'm still annoyed about trashing the Bobcat rank. Sorry, but to me, when an organization changes its name, it loses its history. You can claim it hasn't, but it has. I never met a single girl who didn't join because Cub Scouts was a program under BSA. I have met plenty who didn't join because it was too expensive. I'm not seeing how spending millions of dollars to

"Scouting America" sounds more like the program we are delivering to today's youth, and it is consistent with other WOSM organizations.

Because GSUSA was not meeting their desire for an adventurous program. And their leadership does not want to change. While society does indeed teach there are no differences in roles, psychology and other sciences do show otherwise. Give me until the weekend to get the research collected. Because research from way back, and event to this day, shows that both boys and girls need their own spaces without the opposite gender present to develop. Again, GSUSA has not listened to their base, and have lost many over the years.

I've been pretty supportive of the recent membership changes, but I gotta say - I have some serious reservations about coed troops. Middle school may have been the 3 worst years of my childhood, but Scouting was my refuge at that time. It was nice to go on outings with the boys in my troop without having to worry about impressing anyone. By high school, I was more self-assured and wouldn't have minded participating in a coed troop, but I do worry that we're denying our boys (and girls) a growth opportunity by integrating them at this stage in their development. The march toward school 2.0

I feel like the name change helps remove a distraction, the constant complaining from folks who still felt like the name "Boy Scouts of America" was some kind of mandate that girls not be allowed. Removing the basis of that argument ("Boy" in the main organization name) means there is no argument anymore. It's part of the org name, it's codified into the primary brand identity. It's done, we can (finally) move on from having to defend the contradiction in the name.

Does this mean the BSA has joined with Scouts Mexico and Scouts Canada to form Scouts America? That would be fun. Oh wait, what about South America?

I don’t like it since I feel like it is a distraction. I assume “they” feel like it is “action”, when it really is just a district from the real work. Very disappointing.

Name changes and minor program tweaks won't make a significant impact. I'm seeing a complete collapse of scouting in my area. Multiple Packs ending, others seeing limited growth. Multiple Troops in my area are also near collapse. Summer camps, camporees are losing attendees. The answer from National... A name change? I think the change is fine, but hopefully I hear about their plans to reverse the decline.

What a surprise (not). We conspiracy theorists knew this was the plan all along. Now that the objecting religious sponsors are out of the way, time to make the move.

Of course, a name change on 9/1/24. Effective September 1, 2024, Scouting’s Shooting Sports programs within all programs including Cub Scouting, Scouts BSA, Venturing and Sea Scouting will be referred to as Range and Target Activities. No non-commercial club ranges - nationally authorized camp property’s range(s) or at a commercial firearm range only. Venture sporting programs have taken a hit.. excerpt [9/1/2024 Shooting Sports Program Updates Effective September 1, 2024, Scouting’s Shooting Sports programs within all programs including Cub Scouting, Scouts BSA, Venturing and

I just did a crossover with our primary feeder pack. The pack has 90 scouts. Roughly 20 Lions, 20 Tigers, 20 Wolves, 15 Bears, 10 Webelos and 5 AOL. Of the 5 AOL only 1 wants to continue in Scouts. That 1 only joined Cub Scouts this year.... I talked with the other 4 parents. - They are looking to reduce activities after 5th grade - All are planning to increase their kids involvement in travel sports.... So no time left for scouts

I would say that, here in the US today, a "man embracing the traditional 'provider' role" leads to many fathers who aren't present in their child's life - so many people have to work really long hours, whether that is actually working or with a 2-hour commute each way, that they barely see their kids, and they can't rock the boat because their health insurance is tied to keeping that job, or the mortgage/rent they have to pay is so high they can't move to a job with a better work/life balance ...

I am not that worried about a DBA, or Trademark name. I am also not concerned about co-ed troops. I understand the concerns that some have expressed. However, if the Patrol Method and Scout-Led is done correctly, I see those as the mitigating factor for all the concerns. For example, one concern was that some boys want to be separate from the girls; to do their own thing without having to worry about primping etc... Then the Patrol Method and Scout Led is the solution. In a Scout Led, Patrol Method troop, the scouts choose their own patrols so these boys can choose to be all together as a

Another factor, membership losses are that bad that it affects the ratio.

Last year there was a rumor out of the national meeting about a new program for older scouts to replace venturing. I think national is still baking that one, I cornered a local who is on one of the national committees and he was like "I know of the rumor you're talking about, I can't discuss that." and he wouldn't say a word. So I would say there is legs to the rumor but no one has details/will provide. Venturing is really in the decline where I am at. What I see is that some troops sporadically have a handful of engaged older scouts and so they form a crew for a couple years and then when

The OA has lost a lot of meaning in my neck of the woods. And now that everybody who wants in gets in. None of my Scouts are interested. In the past 6 years, only 1 person wanted in, and he was pushed by his dad who was an Arrowman in his youth. He did the Ordeal, and went to a meeting, and it was so bad he never went again. As for 2 of my sons, despite telling the OA election team they were not interested in joining the OA and remove their names from the ballot, their names remained and they did get elected. But never did their Ordeal. The reason they told me was that the OA is no longer

With respect, I would start with the 4th grade Webelos. I was around in the old 3 year Cub Scout program, when you had 9-12 months to earn both Webelos and AOL and cross over. One year was not enough time to prepare for the differences in programs. When the 18-24 month program came out in the 1990s, it was based upon research, and the training of the time emphasized the differences between the two programs and how Webelos needed to start transition in 4th grade. When the training got updated circa 2009, that information was not emphasized as much as the older training. IMHO separating al

As a Troop, we have seen massive losses before crossover, so we are looking to pilot running the 5th grade AOL program. Our plan is to hold AOL meetings concurrently with Troop Meetings had have our Troop Guide and a ASM run the den meeting. Basically take over for the den leaders. Not sure if it will work, but we figured it can't be worse than what has been happening the last 3 years.

I remember boys hiking the 3+ miles from the Boy Scout summer camp to the nearby Girl Scout summer camp in the evenings in the late 1970s. As was said earlier, "where there's a will, there's a way" -- but we don't have to make it easier for them. I personally felt there was a place for -- nay, a need for -- single-sex instruction in some things. The vast majority of teenage boys I knew -- from the time when I was a teenager myself until present -- don't focus well when there's a teenage girl nearby. Or rather, they focus well but not necessarily on what I need them to focus on. Having

My thoughts are how are they going to spend money they don't have to rebrand everything. I expect dues to go up even higher next year. Will the ring that goes around the World Scouting Crest, which currently says "Boy Scouts of America Since 1910", now say "Boy Scouts of America, from 1910 to 2025"? Also, besides the obvious change to the Eagle rank patch, what about the Eagle medal that shows BSA across the Eagle? What will Scouts BSA members now be called? I hope and pray they don't use the SA abbreviation at all, as this has major ties to old Nazi party, who were often called brownshir

If girls need girls-only spaces, why did they join the former "Boy" Scouts of America? Like a lot of folks here, Boy Scouts was my refuge in middle school when I could pal around with my friends in the woods not worrying about social pressures from school. It was a gender-segregated program. Imagine my surprise when I got to high school and found there were girls with similar feelings and interests. Not all of the girls, but quite a few. Why did we deny them the opportunity of a program that goes outdoors to teach self-reliance, teamwork, determination, and leadership? Before you say girls hav

It's like the Army changing the name of Ft. Hood to Ft. Cavasos. Guess what, nothing else changed and it is still a terrible, depressing place. Frankly, this sounds like some staffer getting a bullet on an evaluation. Someone recently went through and changed the names of several organizations in the Army. Nothing else changed and we're still not getting recruits.

Scouting America is going to be just fine, as long as everyone is indeed welcome so that we do live our timeless values.