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  2. JoeBob

    What our the BSA priorities??

    Withdrawn from social engineering? First they invited gay youth to be members, then gay men to be Scout Masters. Transgenders? Oh what the heck, y'all come on, too! And since BSA now allows girls to be in the BOY Scouts, you don't even have to stick to the gender you pick. Duty to God? Don't ask, don't tell; okay? WHAT TRADITIONAL SOCIAL BOUNDARIES ARE LEFT? I'd say that the Left has departed the field in utter victory. What else could they hope to accomplish? Drive all the straight males from the program? Wait. Maybe if BSA de-emphasizes the outdoors in the program, all the real men will get bored and drop out....
  3. Yesterday
  4. desertrat77

    What our the BSA priorities??

    The difference in strategic messaging, image and resource focus: Pre 1972/Improved Scouting Program: "The BSA is an outdoors organization." Post 1972: "The BSA is an organization. We do different things. The outdoors is one of those things."
  5. yknot

    What our the BSA priorities??

    I know there are many well meaning people working at the National level. However, I would wager that a lot of rational people would say that somehow, the ship has lost its rudder. Frankly, I think it's time for local units to work toward a down-up reorganization, because our parent organization is clearly not meeting our needs. Successful organizations do not operate this way. You are attempting to normalize something that is largely dysfunctional and unresponsive. The idea of National patting us on the head and saying, "Go, shepherd, go tend your sheep and don't worry about all this," is not going to help BSA survive long term. We're right to question. We're right to demand more. We're right to look for ways to make this relationship more functional. If we're in this for the scout, we're compelled to.
  6. mds3d

    What our the BSA priorities??

    I think you are looking in the wrong place for traditional scouting values. They are still there in the aims and methods. Of course, YPT is national's highest priority. The failure of this in the past is the thing most jeopardizing the future of the national organization. You can't blame the national staff of the present for that (you should blame the perverts of the past though). The background check forms are another step in that process. I want national to do everything they need to do to protect the existence of the program for future generations. As long as YPT (and the legacy of the past) is a problem then it will have to be a function of National. Abuse scandles are bad press, scouts getting hurt is bad press. Bad press is bad for recruitment. We have half the number of units in our district than we did when I was a scout (not counting LDS). The Eagle has been a priority for years. It was emphasized 20 years ago when I was a scout. As long as it is viewed as the end goal and a feather on a young person's cap for college and job applications it will be a priority. I don't see national or councils being the push for this though. I haven't been to Summit, but I don't have a problem with it. National is using it (like philmont and sea base) to provide things that local councils simply cannot. I see no wrong in this as long as it is handled. All of the fee discussion has come from panicked scouters and parents. National should have handled it better, but until the number actually comes out we have no way of knowing how bad it is. The outdoor program is supposed to come from the troop. Except for high adventure, it isn't national's job. Except for summer camp, it really isn't the local council's job. If you see shifting priorities here then it is a Unit problem. My units still spend a ton of time outside with boys learning great outdoor skills.
  7. Cburkhardt

    What our the BSA priorities??

    To the question: The priorities of National are to maintain a program template that works and arrange for sensible business services and highest-end program experiences unavailable at the unit and council levels. I think they are on-task and doing reasonably well, now that they have withdrawn from social policy development and enforcement — and now that they are conducting YPT effectively. The priorities of councils are to form and maintain units and to provide program experiences to supplement and support units (camp properties, camporee, etc.). The effectiveness of councils varies greatly. My long term experience is that the principal determinant of how well a council hoes to these priorities is the quality and engagement of the volunteer council board — and not the professionals. The priorities of units, like the 30-girl Troop I am Scoutmaster of, is to vigorously provide an outdoor program and, while there, foster leadership and self-sustainable among young people. I think volunteers do an excellent job at the unit level no matter the status of the unit —because we are usually doing the best we can with available recourses. It is striking just how many of the above comments stray so far from these fundamental priorities.
  8. Thunderbird

    Where would you go?

    If it jumps from $33 to $100, I see a lot of folks dropping. Lots of families (and units) simply cannot handle that much of an increase.
  9. Jameson76

    What our the BSA priorities??

    In theory it does not, but in practice it is a facility that is not fully utilized, and takes resources from other areas. In general it puts the organization at financial risk. For a local unit, not so much impact until they see the update registration fee and may not realize that some portion of that is in fact a Summit Tax. Similar to a unit that goes all out for popcorn sales working to exceed last year, not necessarily a bad thing in general, but units, like organizations, only have so much bandwidth and human capital. They all work on the sales and then other parts of the program suffer. There must be a balance. When National has to move things, make events, and work to make Summit relevant, it's an issue. Over time it will impact the outdoor program as there are only so many resource to go around
  10. ParkMan

    What our the BSA priorities??

    These sound like good things for a pack to use. Can you not do this now?
  11. ParkMan

    What our the BSA priorities??

    I like a good rant as much as anyone, but how does this impact prioritizing an outdoor program? If anything, providing more facilities for advanced outdoor programming is a good thing. The location is within a day car drive for a very large percentage of the US population. That would be good for encouraging more outdoor use.
  12. Momleader

    What our the BSA priorities??

    Bring back the pioneering and Native American skills and games that were in the old Cub Program. Let them play games that they can get filthy dirty in. Our fall hike was based on the old Bear leaf ID elective and the kids had a blast stomping around to identify them with an arborist dad. One Grampa in the group found paw prints near the water and the cubs were trying to ID them back at the luncheon with the old stalking/tracking MB books the troop in town keeps on hand. parents need to let the youth fail - fail at making a fire, or a meal or having their tent set up so it doesn’t leak. It’s not like they’re being sent into the woods solo to fail - there are friends and adults there so it doesn’t get dangerous. STEM/STEAM is good but they get that at school. What about letting the kids make the connection from ‘old’ skills to the STEMy stuff themselves.
  13. Momleader

    Where would you go?

    Actually they are voting today I believe, announcement tomorrow if the They includes scout execs I know ours will vote for more $$. He has to protect his well over $200k every year (yes it’s that high. Saw & read the annual report). He actually makes more than a few superintendents of schools in the council area. no matter how large and well funded a unit is. The increase in fees will have a negative impact on the program that can be delivered at the local level. Something that seems to have been lost on the bombardiers of this latest adventure.
  14. Jameson76

    Where would you go?

    Actually they are voting today I believe, announcement tomorrow. We are a large well funded troop, but there is a huge difference between a $10 rate increase or a $70 rate increase. We charter about 100 Scouts and leaders, looking at what could be a $7,000 shortfall, so options are limited
  15. Jameson76

    What our the BSA priorities??

    Maybe trying to figure out how to extricate yourself from the financial disaster that is Summit Bechtel, that is $500 MM - $750 MM that will never be used to support local Scouting programs. Needed money that was poured (shoveled??) into a vanity project by the Chief Scout Executive and the National Board who are so far removed from actual Scouting it's like a they are in another organization.
  16. ParkMan

    What our the BSA priorities??

    The challenge with all the information available in our society today is that it's really difficult to make sense of questions like priorities. The BSA's priorities are different depending on who you talk to. If you're the Chief Scout Executive or the national board, what's more important - fostering an outdoor program that already exists or trying to stave off financial disaster, continual declines in membership, or abuse lawsuits? If you're a local Scout Executive, is it outdoor program or keeping your council camp open and stopping membership losses? If you're a Scoutmaster is it outdoor program, patrol method, or something else? I think it's part of our culture today that we all get online and discuss the topic of the day. Hopefully most Scouters are with it enough that they put all this in proper context.
  17. 5thGenTexan

    What our the BSA priorities??

    Popcorn.
  18. Momleader

    Where would you go?

    Considering tomorrow is the date we have been told we would hear by....every council is doing a good job keeping mum about it if they know yet. as to pack’s budgeting for this - it’s hard to budget for something like this when we were told NO New Increases. Then we get told as school starts, there’s an increase to insurance fees, and we might be raising the council fees now .... then the day after recruiting night ‘guess what?! National is raising the rates!!’ It’s a moving target and makes you dizzy trying to follow it after the dust settles if our pack doesn’t have to refund all the parents the fees paid for this year (19-20) I will probably stick around and keep finding adult training like Baloo/owls for the pack leaders even going out of Council when need arises and planning kid friendly stuff for the remaining cubs to do
  19. ParkMan

    Where would you go?

    Ok - then we should start preparing for $100.
  20. Eagle94-A1

    Where would you go?

    One SE told his council to be prepared for up to $100.
  21. ParkMan

    Where would you go?

    @gpurlee & @Cubmaster Pete, I have absolutely no idea what the increase will be. Like everyone I hear it is significant. Perhaps going with an estimate of $60 a year for now would be a good estimate. National may come back with less. If they come back with more, then you're maybe a little closer?
  22. desertrat77

    What our the BSA priorities??

    When outdoor adventure was the cornerstone of the BSA, adults knew what they signed up for. They'd either be outdoors as a leader, or in a support capacity that directly helped folks get outdoors. Not so today. Now you can have a long career in the BSA, as a pro or volunteer, and not have to "deal" with outdoor "stuff." Sure, you might have to gut out two weekends for WB, but after that the coast is pretty clear. Clean uniforms, lots of meetings and conferences, etc. Hike 5 miles into camp? Chop wood with an axe? Start a fire in the rain? Cook a meal on the coals with a couple mess kits? Build pioneering projects? Sleep in a tent? These experiences are definitely not stressed or prioritized by most above unit level today. They are just quaint notions from yesterday, something to keep the scouts amused until they start the fast track to Eagle. Then it's SUV time, driving scouts to the local university on Saturdays, go through the assembly line, and leave with a hand full of merit badges at the end of the day. Lunch provided. The only thing the scout has to do is put on their uniform in the morning. The adults do everything. Less risk for Irving TX to worry about. OA is going in the same direction. Sure, we have our high adventure bases, but those are cash cows (some of them). So Irving is willing to assume the risk there. Whatever the priorities of the BSA may be, it's safe to say that their best selling product--the great outdoors at the unit level--has been shoved to the corner of the store, bottom shelf, covered with cob webs. And if the outdoor adventure is not the top priority of the BSA, it's really not the BSA any more.
  23. karunamom3

    Where would you go?

    And for us, a brand new troop & pack, this could really hurt. We don't have a lot of money to begin with. I keep thinking it will be alright and everything will work out in the end. Maybe that is naive, I don't know. I love scouting. My youngest is only a Tiger and already plans to get her Eagle so I have a long way to go with the BSA and don't plan on leaving. I was quite surprised the other day when a Scouts BSA scout said to me that it really doesn't matter what rank he is because BSA is closing soon anyway. I was shocked. His dad is his SM. I wonder what conversations they have had, if any.
  24. DuctTape

    What our the BSA priorities??

    That is why I think the best "how to manual" for scouts is the original Fieldbook. A patrol can start on chapter 1, do the activity (pow-wow I think they were called). Then go to the next activity. If a new scouter needed a "how to", I direct them to this and have them hand it to their PL.
  25. Jameson76

    What our the BSA priorities??

    Getting the push to be 100% trained in the district, which is an admirable goal, so took the Merit Badge Counselor on-line training. more just fluff, very little nuts and bolts. That's the same comment most of our leaders made with the "NEW" YPT, it was more theory and convincing us that endangering children was bad and less about how to be compliant and "DO" YPT. The old training was really applicable, DO this DON'T do this etc etc. When we do training for the Troop Leaders our emphasis is on them having the Scouts DO stuff. When doing fire building we do not need Scouts to understand combustion, ignition points of materials, etc. Maybe later, but let them strike some matches and see that logs do not in fact make kindling. Focus on DOING, Focus on getting out in the woods and letting the Scouts be Scouts.
  26. mrkstvns

    Team Up!

    ...and for some reason, I had a brain fart and forgot to include the link so you could see the source...this was 2 troops in Connecticut... https://patch.com/connecticut/woodbury-middlebury/middlebury-boy-scout-pasta-dinner-coming
  27. SteveMM

    Team Up!

    I believe that Scoutmaster's name was Caractacus Pott
  1. Load more activity
  • Posts

    • Withdrawn from social engineering?  First they invited gay youth to be members, then gay men to be Scout Masters.  Transgenders?  Oh what the heck, y'all come on, too!  And since BSA now allows girls to be in the BOY Scouts, you don't even have to stick to the gender you pick.  Duty to God?  Don't ask, don't tell; okay? WHAT TRADITIONAL SOCIAL BOUNDARIES ARE LEFT?  I'd say that the Left has departed the field in utter victory.  What else could they hope to accomplish?  Drive all the straight males from the program?   Wait.  Maybe if BSA de-emphasizes the outdoors in the program, all the real men will get bored and drop out....
    • The difference in strategic messaging, image and resource focus: Pre 1972/Improved Scouting Program:  "The BSA is an outdoors organization." Post 1972:  "The BSA is an organization.  We do different things.  The outdoors is one of those things."  
    • I know there are many well meaning people working at the National level. However, I would wager that a lot of rational people would say that somehow, the ship has lost its rudder. Frankly, I think it's time for local units to work toward a down-up reorganization, because our parent organization is clearly not meeting our needs. Successful organizations do not operate this way. You are attempting to normalize something that is largely dysfunctional and unresponsive. The idea of National patting us on the head and saying, "Go, shepherd, go tend your sheep and don't worry about all this," is not going to help BSA survive long term.  We're right to question. We're right to demand more. We're right to look for ways to make this relationship more functional. If we're in this for the scout, we're compelled to. 
    • I think you are looking in the wrong place for traditional scouting values.  They are still there in the aims and methods.  Of course, YPT is national's highest priority.  The failure of this in the past is the thing most jeopardizing the future of the national organization.  You can't blame the national staff of the present for that (you should blame the perverts of the past though). The background check forms are another step in that process.  I want national to do everything they need to do to protect the existence of the program for future generations.  As long as YPT  (and the legacy of the past) is a problem then it will have to be a function of National.  Abuse scandles are bad press, scouts getting hurt is bad press. Bad press is bad for recruitment. We have half the number of units in our district than we did when I was a scout (not counting LDS).  The Eagle has been a priority for years.  It was emphasized 20 years ago when I was a scout.  As long as it is viewed as the end goal and a feather on a young person's cap for college and job applications it will be a priority.  I don't see national or councils being the push for this though.  I haven't been to Summit, but I don't have a problem with it.  National is using it (like philmont and sea base) to provide things that local councils simply cannot.  I see no wrong in this as long as it is handled.  All of the fee discussion has come from panicked scouters and parents.  National should have handled it better, but until the number actually comes out we have no way of knowing how bad it is.   The outdoor program is supposed to come from the troop. Except for high adventure, it isn't national's job. Except for summer camp, it really isn't the local council's job.  If you see shifting priorities here then it is a Unit problem.    My units still spend a ton of time outside with boys learning great outdoor skills.  
    • To the question:  The priorities of National are to maintain a program template that works and arrange for sensible business services and highest-end program experiences unavailable at the unit and council levels.  I think they are on-task and doing reasonably well, now that they have withdrawn from social policy development and enforcement — and now that they are conducting YPT effectively.  The priorities of councils are to form and maintain units and to provide program experiences to supplement and support units (camp properties, camporee, etc.).  The effectiveness of councils varies greatly.  My long term experience is that the principal determinant of how well a council hoes to these priorities is the quality and engagement of the volunteer council board — and not the professionals.  The priorities of units, like the 30-girl Troop I am Scoutmaster of, is to vigorously provide an outdoor program and, while there, foster leadership and self-sustainable among young people.  I think volunteers do an excellent job at the unit level no matter the status of the unit —because we are usually doing the best we can with available recourses.  It is striking just how many of the above comments stray so far from these fundamental priorities.    
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