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  3. walk in the woods

    Lessons for BSA Summer Camps?

    This Article discussing the value of free play is interesting (at least to me). I can't decide if it's a benefit or challenge to Scouting.
  4. qwazse

    When was 4th Aim added?

    The other thread about the law reminded me of an online reference regarding the evolution of the aims and methods over time: http://www.inquiry.net/adult/methods/index.htm I thought there was a way we could grid out these buggers in the current forum software, but I'll have to dig a little.
  5. qwazse

    Scout Law

    'Shiff's reference is a nice matrix of the points as they evolved over the years. Also on that site: BP's Law and Oath with investiture ceremonies. http://www.inquiry.net/ideals/b-p/law.htm
  6. RememberSchiff

    Scout Law

    http://www.inquiry.net/ideals/scout_law/chart.htm
  7. Treflienne

    Scout Law

    Well, the first of Baden -Powell's scout laws is "A SCOUT'S HONOUR IS TO BE TRUSTED" and part of the explanation for that was "If a scout were to break his honour by telling a lie, or by not carrying out an order exactly when trusted on his honour to do so, he would cease to be a scout, and must hand over his scout badge and never be allowed to wear it again." See the wikipedia article cited about for the full 1908 scout law.
  8. Treflienne

    Scout Law

    Baden Powell's 1908 scout law (from Scouting for Boys) is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scout_law
  9. walk in the woods

    Scout Law

    Anybody remember Kudu's (I think that his ID) website? I bet the original scout law is on there somewhere.
  10. walk in the woods

    Eliminate the Eagle application?

    Maybe. Not every kid is going to fit into a waterfall project management scheme with equal ease. What if the kid is more at home with an agile style of project work? If that's the case then I would expect a "poor" project workbook. Not because the kid did anything wrong, it just doesn't fit his way of thinking. I'd also argue there are way better tools that might be more applicable to youth today. Why fill out a PDF (how 90s) when there are online project management tools available?
  11. Our troop owns all Eureka tents. A couple years ago we purchased four new Timberline Outfitter 4XT tents. No complaints so far. We also have two Eureka Equinox 6 tents that are 20+ years old and really about at the end of their useful life. Leaders tents are a fairly new Copper Canyon 8 and an old Sunrise 6 (rarely used), although sometimes myself and others leaders will use our own personal tents. Luckily we have the use of a barn loft at the edge of town where we can setup/hang tents to dry. We really stress the care and maintenance of the tents and other gear to the scouts.
  12. MacBrave

    Trailer Recommendation

    Yep, it is a beast. If we are camping in areas with other troops around we usually get a couple fellow scouters walking up and saying "Cool! Can we check out your trailer?" 😃 Several years ago, before I joined the troop, they got it weighed right before leaving for a week long summer camp so it had a lot of personal gear loaded in it. I believe it tipped the scales at 7k pounds. I don't own a vehicle that can pull it, but 3 of our current adult leaders and a couple parents do. Most of them say it doesn't pull bad, although gas mileage goes down the tubes if you are driving into a strong headwind (it's not exactly an aerodynamic design 😃) . You also have to be aware of how the weight is distributed, a couple years ago while following it down the interstate I saw it get a little "squirrelly' from crosswinds. Luckily we were close to home and could exit the interstate and take slower surface roads the rest of the way. We also just replaced the old hydraulic brakes with traditional electric brakes and replaced the axles. Should be good for another 25 years, although we really do need to repaint it.
  13. fred8033

    Eliminate the Eagle application?

    In our council, the eagle app is dropped off at the council office. Then it's triage by council staff (who are experts in the process and very supportive ... but it takes time). Then it's sent to the district via mail or district picks up. At that point, two to three weeks have elapsed. Then EBOR is considered for scheduling. Sometimes it's a week. Most of the time it's another several weeks. The average to EBOR done right now is eight to nine weeks. I'd be supportive if we could directly deliver the Eagle apps to the district advancement chairs. That would save at least two weeks of the processing. But then again, it seems like it could be expedited even more ... drastically more.
  14. Eagle1993

    New Sex Abuse Charges

    So it appears that January 30 this year a researcher hired by the BSA to go through their files indicated some of her findings in an unrelated trial. The trial was against a children’s theater in Minnesota. The expert indicated that the BSA required no one on one contact since 1987... whereas the theater only started this in 2017. In any case, the researcher stated some of the BSA prior processes and numbers that are coming out from her research. This is what the law firm is jumping at. In addition the law firm has released a report on their website of NY and NJ accused and asking for the abused to come forward. So I agree, appears to be a fishing expedition.
  15. HelpfulTracks

    Boys-only weeks at camp

    Having worked for non-profits I can tell you too many of them do not treat it as a business, which is why many are failing. One mantra I was taught and believe; No Money - No Mission. If we can't fund the program, what difference do the Aims and methods make. We won't be instilling Scouting values into anyone. As a proponent of a BSA girls program my first and primary concern was the logistics of Summer camps. I probably even posted on this concern somewhere in this forum. I knew there would be attitudes that would need to be overcome, operational issues to resolve, but Summer camp logistics, that is about money. Money most councils cannot afford to drop in a span of 1-3 seasons. Most BSA camps are geared toward the 95-98% male campership they have had for a century. Ask the female SM/ASM's that go to Summer camp. Camps are just not geared toward their small numbers for financial reasons. It is far easier to accommodate a few female leaders each week than it will be to accommodate entire female units. Take something as simple as bathhouses. Many (most I have visited) share bathhouses between 2 or more camp sites. Parents of both boy and girl campers have raised concerns over sharing bathhouse facilities. So if you have a couple of girl troops that barely fill half a camp site, but effectively block 2-3 campsites, does that make sense financially? No, it is a huge drain. Does it make sense to turn away 30-40 boy campers each session even though there are empty camp sites? That is tens of thousands of dollars lost over a Summer. Does it make sense to raise every campers fee by $25 to make up for those that were turned away? Or does it make more sense to funnel girl troops into 2 or 3 weeks of the Summer until there is a critical mass of girls troops? To quote my teenage Scouting daughter - "That's cool. Makes sense. It wouldn't be fair to the boys to do that. We just need to recruit more girls if we want more camp dates." Another issue I have heard raised is medical staff. The girl troop leaders asked for female medical staff because the girls are more comfortable with female doctors. Of course the boy troops said their boys were more comfortable with male doctors. How do you resolve that? Double the medical staff? Double the cost? No offense @shortridge, but digging in and pushing for an ideal solution out of the gate only pushes people apart and creates a program that doesn't work for most, if any in the long run. I think we have done a good job of creating a workable solution for now. And though not ideal, we can continue to make it better. That provides all of our youth with a better program than the alternative.
  16. RememberSchiff

    Eliminate the Eagle application?

    This is the Eagle application form being questioned. https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/512-728_WB_fillable.pdf
  17. HashTagScouts

    Eliminate the Eagle application?

    Not sure how every council handles the process- the link below my be helpful on how our council handles the process. I've been told on several occasions that our process follows the recommended process from National, but who knows. Once the scout has their signatures, and notifies the District Advancement Chair the workbook & application are complete, scheduling of the EBOR begins. Generally, if the notification is complete by the Friday of the 3rd week of the month, the EBOR gets scheduled for the third week of the following month. The council gives a certificate the night of the EBOR to the new Eagle signifying the date and award- though it is not the "official" award, which does take several weeks for National to issue. https://www.mayflowerbsa.org/program/youth/advancement/
  18. fred8033

    Eliminate the Eagle application?

    I'm not quoting anything at all about the EBOR. I'm saying the backend paperwork done by unit, district and council should be expedited. Currently, it takes way too long and there are too many people touching the application with no value added. The EBOR should continue as now. If anything, the scout could take more responsibility for his EBOR by bringing his presentation materials with him into the EBOR. Thus, making it more his EBOR that he actively drives than an EBOR that he just sits through.
  19. mashmaster

    Eliminate the Eagle application?

    Turn around should be faster and more optimized. I don't think the paperwork should go away for the reference letters and project workbook. Those are the most insightfull pieces of information I get when going into an EBOR because I am not connected with the unit and don't know the scout. You can tell a lot about a scout from his project book.
  20. Eagle1993

    New Sex Abuse Charges

    Just watched. This is in prep for the August 15 date where the statue of limitations is dropped in New York for child abuse. They indicate there are over 12,000 victims and 7,800 abusers...based on detailed analysis of the files...
  21. Jameson76

    New Sex Abuse Charges

    Anderson plans to file multiple lawsuits against the Boy Scouts on behalf of the victims and demands the organization hand over their files, including names of those accused of abuse I thought the files were already out in a searchable database as a result of several previous lawsuit. Wow - these guys are definitely looking for more clients - here is one from New York attorney. They even list names from the files. They seem to be casting a wide net for anyone else. https://newyorksexabuseattorneys.com/boy-scout-files/?gclid=CjwKCAjw7_rlBRBaEiwAc23rhthUii8jw1NnVhlr9KfGHsoB_K_9EyafV8eyx7caVCP_xnX-CixVVhoCQVgQAvD_BwE Here is the searchable database https://www.crewjanci.com/resources/boy-scout-perversion-files/
  22. qwazse

    Eliminate the Eagle application?

    If it is anything like the Eagle project workbook, then no. If it is a plain-old-asci standard (e.g. .XML), then yes. The scout could log on and download his/her own pre-filled app. In fact, as soon as the last req is completed and logged by the unit, an E-mail with a pre-filled application could be sent to the scout.
  23. Saltface

    Eliminate the Eagle application?

    Are you proposing that an EBOR should be <gasp> more than a "celebration"? https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2018/11/07/an-eagle-scout-board-of-review-isnt-a-job-interview-its-a-celebration/
  24. Saltface

    New Sex Abuse Charges

    Sounds like a prospect list.
  25. fred8033

    Eliminate the Eagle application?

    I agree. When I look at the individual advancement report, it's already there. It shows the dates for each eagle requirement, etc. It evaluates whether the records indicate the scout completed each of the requirements. Here is what I think is needed. Manual step still ... A "Ready for EBOR" review queue and screen .... Council staff would have access to unit data and an ability to push "approved for Eagle board of review". That approval should automatically email the contacts setup for in the troop (scoutmaster, committee chair, advancement admin), scout family (mom, dad, scout) and district advancement staff (district advancement chair, and other members). That review could essentially check that each of the Eagle rank requirements were approved by unit leadership. Automated ... "100% automated paperwork review" ... Once the last Eagle requirement before EBOR was approved by unit leaders, the system could automatically notify a new scout is ready for his EBOR. Supporting materials ... For now, the scout could bring supporting materials to his EBOR ... project workbook, pictures, diagrams, timesheets, other .... The scoutmaster or other unit leader sitting in the EBOR could bring the reference letters and other non-scout-materials. Long term, maybe a file repository could be created where we upload the project workbook, images and other related paperwork. It seems like this could happen fairly quick. What I'm seeing is council staff is spending at least $25 or more per application to process an Eagle app. ... plus postage. Then add many weeks of delays as things bounce between people or wait for a human to do what is already done automatically in ScoutBook. I think this 9 to 11 week turn-around could be reduced to 21 to 3 weeks.
  26. qwazse

    Girl Scouts vs. School Dress Code

    I agree that this phenomenon is firstly girls trying to look acceptable to other girls. Being able to turn boys' heads is secondary. It's almost universal. Once my crew (all boys at the time) visited a Christian commune for a holiday open-house, the community's women and girls dressed similarly. Dresses and head covering had the same modest cut, but colors varied (think 18th century with lots of greys, blues, tans, and purples). One of my leaders asked his host about the "uniforms". The host said, "We leave that to the women. None of us guys would dare touch on that topic." Guys do the same thing, but it seems to a lesser degree. For example, my buddies ribbed me when I was getting too tall for my jeans. It never crossed my mind that I should ask my mom for a new wardrobe. I figured if they weren't picking on me for that they'd pick on my for my purple converse all-stars. (The only outfit for which I never got smack from the guys, BTW, was when I would wear my scout uniform to school.) But more importantly, I never felt "on the outs" with the guys because of how I dressed. Same for my other buddy who always dressed sharp. I don't think it was the same for girls. So any discussion, IMHO, needs to recognize that there is a psychological phenomenon among women upon which industry capitalizes, and "civic action" on a girls' part could involve standing up for her school's dress code and, for example, asking stores to stock fashion that conforms to it.
  27. mrjohns2

    Scout Law

    Is is true that truthful isn’t listed since Scouts were used as spies during the African campaign and good spies aren’t truthful?
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