All range activities are suspended

[InquisitiveScouter]

15 minutes ago, Navybone said:

I agree with your concern, especially if there is the mentality of zero risk.  But I applaud BSA instituting a safety stand down when someone is hurt on a range (archery or rifle/shotgun).  The stand down is a good opportunity to learn about what occurred at the Summit, and ensue that everyone has the right procedures and training in place.  The best defense against any effort to reduce range activities is demonstrating mature processes that are not afraid to be self critical and truly place safety first.  A stand down like this is a best practice among many professional organizations (police, military, etc) for a reason.

My read is that this is a stand down to assess BSA's corporate exposure.  From the limited facts available, it appears BSA (Summit) was renting out the property to a third party, versus this being an event conducted under the auspices of BSA.  Very different scenarios with very different implications...

You'll notice the letter does not direct SEs to pause unit-level RATS events.  That may be an oversight, or it may be deliberate.  We cannot know until they issue further guidance.

If it was an event conducted under the auspices of, then the stand down is warranted.  However, it should have been extended to unit-level activities if that is the case.

If it was not conducted under the auspices of, then this a "cover your butt" move to determine legal exposure, which would explain the "...camps and properties" verbiage.

[Eagle94-A1]

53 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Very doubtful this safety pause will affect Summer Camp activities... they know where their bread is buttered 😜 

That is true. I remember when they attempted to change the old YP rules, which allowed 18-20 year olds to be considered as a 2nd adult, to the current policy of only 21 year olds count. National made the policy effective March 1, 2018, but there was so much push back from local councils, and the HA bases, where units already planned for their 2nd adult to be 18-20, and they wanted their money back if they had to cancel. National pushed the implementation date to September 1, 2018.

[Jameson76]

Some new background on this, and apparently this is not 100% just related to shooting sports, though that is what is impacted right now.

From what I understand this concept of the "Stand down" is a BSA National initiative.  If there is an aquatics incident in some state at BSA camps / property, ALL aquatics in all camps will stand down for a few days.  If there is a mountain bike incident, ALL mountain biking will stand down for a few days.  Rinse, lather, repeat.

No information of actual process for what additional training or actions will be taken in a stand down, how long a stand down will be, or what will trigger the lifting of a stand down.  This is somehow related to new insurance policy and coming out of bankruptcy.  As we can all see a good bit of confusion.

As a side note for camps that have staff in camp school RIGHT NOW for training, they are basically out of luck.  Just sitting around and talking, no range time or any or the actual nuts and bolts as the range is effectively closed.

[RememberSchiff]

Random thoughts about risk:

Were scout activities going on at Bechtel Summit while Total Archery ran their non-scouting event?

Were scouts participating in that non-scout event?

Who registered the event participants?

The posted executive order applies only to scout camps and properties,  so a council could  have their Shooting Clays fundraiser moved to a local sportsmen club? A lot of council Shooting Clays fundraisers are scheduled for May and June.

Edited 5 hours ago by RememberSchiff

[qwazse]

The liability question will be does BSA have some operating procedure on a national level that increases the risk of such incidents?

Renting to outside groups is one procedure. But, are ranges being allowed to be built and operated in a way that now increases incidents?

Once shooting sports is addressed, we’ll have to take a hard look at acquatics. National has offloaded guard training on to ARC. It’s good, but is it reducing risk.

[mrjohns2]

Stand downs are very standard in the area of industrial construction I work. If there is an injury or serious near miss, a stand down is issued. Initial facts are gathered and any prudent immediate follow up is taken before restarting. 
 

For very serious incidents, sometimes multiple common sites are on stand down until imitate follow-up is understood or complete.