Chapter 11 announced - Part 14 - Plan Effective

[clbkbx]

On 12/11/2023 at 10:31 AM, Ojoman said:

BSA was doing youth protection training way back

Hey @Ojoman, I know you’re tapping out and I’ve done the same at times so I’m just using your post as a jumping off point. I’ve learned a lot in this forum both confirming and disproving what I thought previously.

Here is my (and everyone’s) actual recent experience: the Boy Scouts negotiated around and waited to implement YP measures during the lengthy bankruptcy process. My point of view is that this indicates that they are not always acting in good faith and they err in balancing their desire to protect their brand over preventing abuse. 

[Eagle1970]

Back on the Trust Settlement...

How can the Trust distribute anything while this is under appeal?  They clearly have been paying out the $3500 to those who agreed to it.  But where does it go from there?  I see a new website design, but no movement on my claim since I submitted it on day one.

And if anyone can enlighten me on the status of the appeals process, or where I can follow the appeals, I would appreciate that.

[yknot]

2 hours ago, fred8033 said:

Yep.  And I strongly suspect the first officials notified were either the principal or the psychologist.  The teacher would have been in big trouble if a police car showed up at school without the administration knowing first. 

Who knows if the teacher had that challenge or not, the point is that her horror led her to report it immediately and she got results. My aunt was attached to the court system, not a district employee. It's a relevant contrast to the 1935 article detailing BSA's already long history dating back to the 1920s with moral perversion and degenerate behavior in scouting. I don't understand the prevalence nor the persistence in perpetuating the idea that BSA was simply dealt a wrong hand by the rest of the world and not a victim of its own actions. It met a moral challenge of its times and fell short, decade after decade. This kind of perspective allows organizational moral failings to continue at a time when I really wish it could overcome them and move on. 

[fred8033]

55 minutes ago, clbkbx said:

Can you post them or provide any documentation like @SiouxRangersuggested?

 

LA Times shows timeline of BSA starting at least in 1972 screening leaders.  More over the next decades.  




Specific files ....  Clicking in alphabetical order ... did not notice until later reverse alphabetical ...  using LA Times DB ... search started reverse alphabetical on it's own ... probably from when I was reading the files years ago.

This is not picking and choosing.  This is in sequence without skipping entries.  I am not posting the names involved.

1987-06-16 - Documents convicted felonies 

1966-09-13 - Arrested 7/27/66

1987-11-15 - Indicted 11/10/87 on 3 counts

1986-12-19 - Entered guity plea - Newspaper documentation

1991-02-25 - Teacher indicted 

1991-10-03 - Registration refused after documentation of previous abuse

1979-02-05 ... Documents parents decided to not pursue charge.  ... BSA records removing and blocking future registration   

The one that really reflects the attitude at the time. 

1989-02-08 ... Memo from county DA documents parents decided to not pursue charges as long as the scout leader resigns and enters counseling.   Perpetrator was interviewed in the county district attorney's offices.  Police special investigators involved and had evidence.  Person confessed he was guilty.  District attorney decided to not pursue charges.  

If I keep going thru more than the eight, I suspect a similar pattern will be shown.  

 

 

Edited December 13, 2023 by fred8033

[InquisitiveScouter]

14 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

Person confessed he was guilty.  District attorney decided to not pursue charges.  

...mind-boggling and enraging.

[MYCVAStory]

6 hours ago, Eagle1970 said:

And if anyone can enlighten me on the status of the appeals process, or where I can follow the appeals, I would appreciate that.

In a nutshell, where we are right now:

1.  A couple different attorneys representing a few hundred Survivors (and I think the non-settling insurers) are pushing an appeal that now rests with the appellate court.  One of those attorneys represents clients in Guam that already are getting settlement dollars as agreed upon by the Catholic Diocese there in a separate bankruptcy.

2.  Supreme Court has taken up the issue of non-consensual third-party releases via the Purdue Pharma bankruptcy that included the Sackler family as recipients of releases in exchange for their financial contribution. This is the same bankruptcy vehicle employed in the BSA bankruptcy by the Local Councils in exchange for their contribution.

3.  While the appellate court could rule on the BSA plan, most court watchers think it will wait to see what the Supreme Court rules; expected in June.  Then again, see #4 below.  FWIW, Long-time Bankruptcy professionals I have spoken to were struck by the seeming support for releases during oral arguments with several judges saying essentially "Why should we disagree with a plan that was approved overwhelmingly?"  Posted to his X/Twitter Attorney Kosnoff said "I now do a QB Joe Namath 1968 “I GUARANTEE”that SCOTUS holds nonconsensual third party releases unlawful & unconstitutional taking of prop’y. Sayonara BSA, Coalition, TCC & your “Plan”.   Sharing both of the preceding so when we look back we can judge for ourselves.

4.  In the meantime, the Survivors Trust is trying to do its business expeditiously because the courts have found that appeals are not granted because of the principle of "Equitable Mootness." Essentially, this means thatthe plan is too far along to unwind.  Equitable Mootness is not without controversy and some believe it will be the next baknruptcy issue taken up by the SCOTUS. 

5.  So how does the plan go final and there's no going back?  Today, the appellate court can decline the appeal and SCOTUS refuses a writ to have it considered by them.  Or in June, when SCOTUS allows third-party releases in Purdue, the Appellate court then refuses the appeal and SCOTUS doesn't take the case.   Obviously, the appellate court confirming an objection would stay the plan in the meantime and the BSA would then be arguing in the Supreme Court but there seems to be little belief that's going to happen since the Purdue case was identical.

6.  In the meantime, the Trust works away to do its business.  That said, while there is a 2/16/24 deadline for ponying up the first 10K to go under the IRO NO deadline has been set for Survivors to file their questionnaires and the Trustee has said that there will be at least FOUR months notice.  So don't hold your breath for a check in the mail.  How much is this costing in the meantime?  We'll see when financial statements are filed by the Trust.  The Trustee gets 100K a month I believe.  Insert your own comment here about how that's appropriate for a CEO of a multi-billion dollar organization, or, just shake your head in disbelief and add it to the list of "My next career."

Hope this helps.  Omni still carries the docket for the case and publishes all correspondence and documents.

https://cases.omniagentsolutions.com/?clientId=3552

Edited December 13, 2023 by RememberSchiff
added Omni link

[SiouxRanger]

On 12/13/2023 at 7:34 AM, fred8033 said:

Then you  have not read many or your are being disingenuous.  The files contain many including police reports and court proceedings.  

I AM NEVER DISINGENOUS.

I am an Eagle and a Philmont Ranger. And those two status' are more important to me than any other accomplishments (but one which would identify me.). 

And in my world, my veracity is unquestioned. But you, and the forum here are at liberty to form their own opinions.

The IV files I have read, about 40 of 7,000 or so DO contain newspaper articles about perpetrators and police reports. And conviction reports.

BUT NOT A SINGLE LETTER FROM BSA NATIONAL OR LOCAL COUNCIL, not one, to any law enforcement agency reporting suspected abuse. Not one.

Nor a single letter from National BSA or a council to anyone advising them to contact local law enforcement.

(All which says, let's just ride low below the radar-it may all go away."}

And if you know of any…

POST THEM.

Perhaps you've read other IV files than I have.

[johnsch322]

A letter released by a Louisiana BSA executive to the BSA's national personnel division revealed: "This subject and Scouts were not prosecuted to save the name of Scouting."[32][33] The files revealed cases of collusion between the BSA and the Justice System, as in a 1962 Johnston, PA, case[34] where a BSA leader pleaded guilty to "serious morals" violations involving Scouts. A local Scouting executive learned of the abuse from a member of the local executive board who served as both mayor and police chief. Newspapers failed to report the connection to the Scouts because, as the executive wrote to BSA national's personnel division in explanation, "No mention of Scouting was involved in the case in as much as two of the three judges who pronounced sentence are members of our Executive Board".[35] Among the files include a 1972 BSA executive writing "I would like to let this case drop ... One father has threatened legal action which could only injure the Boy Scouts of America. My personal opinion in this particular case is, 'If it don't stink, don't stir it.'"[36][37]

[fred8033]

9 minutes ago, SiouxRanger said:

Nor a single letter from National BSA or a council to anyone advising them to contact local law enforcement.

Not reasonable.

#1  When I need to advise someone to do something really hard, it's a direct discussion.  I don't write a memo to them advising them.  
#2  The IVF files are documentation WHY the person should not be registered; not a step by step process record of everything that happened.  

#3  The fact that so so so many of the files do have police records are strong evidence that the right thing did happen.  

*****
After I posted yesterday ... I another few files.  ... again alphabetical starting from Z. ... Just a few ... I found this one

1978-04-19 ...  File had court transcript ... Volunteer pleaded guilty.  Judge interviewed man's wife who said he was a good man.  Judge had letters from man's company that said he was well employed and a good employee.  Judge recognized man was financially supporting his young kids and wife.  Based on good character testimony, the man was sentenced to probation and suspension of a ten year jail term.  He did have to pay a $180 dollar court cost fine.  ... That was the society at this time.  

[SiouxRanger]

25 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

Not reasonable.

#1  When I need to advise someone to do something really hard, it's a direct discussion.  I don't write a memo to them advising them.  
#2  The IVF files are documentation WHY the person should not be registered; not a step by step process record of everything that happened.  

#3  The fact that so so so many of the files do have police records are strong evidence that the right thing did happen.  

*****
After I posted yesterday ... I another few files.  ... again alphabetical starting from Z. ... Just a few ... I found this one

1978-04-19 ...  File had court transcript ... Volunteer pleaded guilty.  Judge interviewed man's wife who said he was a good man.  Judge had letters from man's company that said he was well employed and a good employee.  Judge recognized man was financially supporting his young kids and wife.  Based on good character testimony, the man was sentenced to probation and suspension of a ten year jail term.  He did have to pay a $180 dollar court cost fine.  ... That was the society at this time.  

PLEASE POST COPIES OF LETTERS FROM THE BSA IV FILES DIRECTING ANYONE TO CONTACT LAW ENFORCEMENT.

Or admit you are just an apologist for a failed program that damaged children.

[Eagle1970]

On 12/13/2023 at 1:40 PM, MYCVAStory said:

In a nutshell, where we are right now:

 

Thanks so much for the detailed response.  The trust is pretty quiet about moving forward beyond the $3500 payouts and related issues.  I wonder if they are going to start evaluating claims anytime soon and running them through the matrix.  Like I said, I completed my entire submission on day one of the opening, so I would think I would know earlier than some.  Obviously, those with aggregious medical issues get bumped up.  Frankly, I'd rather just wait than be in that group.  Though nobody here is getting any younger.

[fred8033]

17 hours ago, SiouxRanger said:

PLEASE POST COPIES OF LETTERS FROM THE BSA IV FILES DIRECTING ANYONE TO CONTACT LAW ENFORCEMENT.

Or admit you are just an apologist for a failed program that damaged children.

Apologist?  Yes for our parents, police, schools, churches, society, and many, many youth organizations that repeatedly failed children for decades.  Uniquely calling BSA out on this is wrong.

[johnsch322]

1 hour ago, fred8033 said:

Apologist?  Yes for our parents, police, schools, churches, society, and many, many youth organizations that repeatedly failed children for decades.  Uniquely calling BSA out on this is wrong.

It was 2 BSA leaders who raped me. Not my parents, school, church, society or any other youth organization. They were recruited by the BSA, empowered with authority by the BSA and I was indoctrinated by the BSA to obey their leadership role. Why wouldn't someone like me and others who have gone thru similar circumstances call out the BSA?  The BSA had a unique role in what happened to all of us.

[RememberSchiff]

12/14/2023:

The bankruptcy plan appeal will proceed..."the Third Circuit said, rejecting preliminary arguments from the organization and its settling insurers that transactions underlying the plan can’t be undone."

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/bankruptcy-law/boy-scouts-insurers-lose-preliminary-bid-for-appeal-dismissal

Order:

The foregoing motions come before us while the appeal is in the midst of briefing and an outstanding motion to stay is also pending. The Appellees’  (Boy Scouts and settling insurers) arguments leave us unpersuaded at this preliminary stage that equitable or statutory mootness apply in the particular circumstances of this case. Therefore, the motion to dismiss is hereby referred to the merits panel in accordance with 3d Cir. I.O.P 10.3.5.

D&V (Dumas & Vaughn) Claimants’ Motion to Permit an Overlength Consolidated Response is granted."

Judge Kent A. Jordan of the US Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit

sources:

https://aboutblaw.com/bbVh

Edited December 15, 2023 by RememberSchiff
D&V = Dumas & Vaughn

[Eagle1970]

18 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

12/14/2023:

The bankruptcy plan appeal will proceed..."the Third Circuit said, rejecting preliminary arguments from the organization and its settling insurers that transactions underlying the plan can’t be undone."

 

So it sounds like this will stop the Trust to some extent.  In all of the various cases I read about, with appeal after appeal, I'm stuck between Justice Served and Justice Denied.  If we have gone through this for nothing, it will clearly be the latter.