qwazse 4345 Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 9 hours ago, fred8033 said: I prefer PDF documents as it effectively looks and feels like a book. Professional. Illustrations. Cover page. Index. Table of contents. Cross references. Searchable. Most importantly, printable into a real document. What's "real" these days? Print? Does my registration fee pay for the ink and paper that I'd need? Illustrations are not requirements. Professional? Like the Project Workbook that many scouts have trouble loading on to their devices? I get nervous any time someone asks BSA to doll anything up. More importantly, this is a game with a purpose. And, like a game FAQ, it needs to be rapidly scroll-able. The requirement's file should be minimal so that it can be comprehensive. All hyperlinks are ASCII. (Well, technically, everyone has gone UTF-8 ... and doing so might aid language translation services.) Plain text is amenable to free-form search and if it uses tags, standard apps can read it and generate the TOC, and image links. We're talking about the base file from which all other material is drawn. The pretty pictures of all the patches aren't going to go away. They just won't be a distraction for anyone who wants to scan a large volume of data quickly. Full disclosure: I do save all of my output for work as .pdf if possible. But our product is tables and charts, so formatting goes a long way in communicating to others, including my future self. The only down-side is when I want to machine-read some output, then ASCII is my friend once again. Link to post Share on other sites
mashmaster 783 Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 Like this? banner.txt 1 Link to post Share on other sites
fred8033 1593 Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 (edited) 12 minutes ago, mashmaster said: Like this? banner.txt 50.85 kB · 2 downloads Wow. I feel like I've had high school flashbacks ... Just my preference ... PDF can be organized into a nice on-line library. Ascii and Web pages make for poor organization. Just my preference. 35 minutes ago, qwazse said: What's "real" these days? Print? Does my registration fee pay for the ink and paper that I'd need? Illustrations are not requirements. Professional? Like the Project Workbook that many scouts have trouble loading on to their devices? I get nervous any time someone asks BSA to doll anything up. More importantly, this is a game with a purpose. And, like a game FAQ, it needs to be rapidly scroll-able. The requirement's file should be minimal so that it can be comprehensive. All hyperlinks are ASCII. (Well, technically, everyone has gone UTF-8 ... and doing so might aid language translation services.) Plain text is amenable to free-form search and if it uses tags, standard apps can read it and generate the TOC, and image links. We're talking about the base file from which all other material is drawn. The pretty pictures of all the patches aren't going to go away. They just won't be a distraction for anyone who wants to scan a large volume of data quickly. Full disclosure: I do save all of my output for work as .pdf if possible. But our product is tables and charts, so formatting goes a long way in communicating to others, including my future self. The only down-side is when I want to machine-read some output, then ASCII is my friend once again. Only My opinions ... ... PDFs ... Professional? Yes. Can very much be so. Can easily look like a professionally published document. ... Hyperlinks are ASCII ... Yes, but not clickable and not easy to use in an ASCII doc. ... Eagle workbook. Uniquely difficult in BSA because of the extra complexity of an editable PDF. Basic PDFs are well integrated into most all phones, computers, web browsers now. Edited January 20, 2021 by fred8033 1 Link to post Share on other sites
RememberSchiff 3680 Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 Up arrow for photo of DECWriter II LA36...takes me back 1 Link to post Share on other sites
fred8033 1593 Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 Just now, RememberSchiff said: Up arrow for photo of DECWriter II LA36...takes me back Sadly, I had to search hard to find the exact model I used as a kid. Link to post Share on other sites
mashmaster 783 Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 I used one as well. I also learned Fortran 77 using punch cards. How did I get to be so old? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
RememberSchiff 3680 Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 (edited) 22 minutes ago, fred8033 said: Sadly, I had to search hard to find the exact model I used as a kid. ... my search was easier but for an Underwood No. 5 which predated ASCII and digital computers for that matter. Typed my Eagle Project write-up (two pages, double space). As I recall the we punched IBM cards with either the IBM 026 or 029. The fun feature with 029 was duplicating a pre-punched card. It sounded like a machine gun, well a Mattel machine gun. But I digress... Edited January 20, 2021 by RememberSchiff 2 Link to post Share on other sites
fred8033 1593 Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 1 hour ago, RememberSchiff said: ... my search was easier but for an Underwood No. 5 which predated ASCII and digital computers for that matter. Typed my Eagle Project write-up (two pages, double space). As I recall the we punched IBM cards with either the IBM 026 or 029. The fun feature with 029 was duplicating a pre-punched card. It sounded like a machine gun, well a Mattel machine gun. But I digress... You win. I surrender. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
TAHAWK 1420 Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 I was told last year by the Director of the IRS Frenso Center that they use the first operating software post key-punch cards - the 1959 version of COBOL - in 1960's computers. Explains why they are the best part of two years behind - that and funding being cut 30% over the last ten years. "And then the camel died." 1 Link to post Share on other sites
InquisitiveScouter 1656 Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 On 1/15/2021 at 9:39 PM, mrjohns2 said: I don't think it means what they think it means. Inconceivable! Link to post Share on other sites
InquisitiveScouter 1656 Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 On 1/16/2021 at 4:40 PM, mrjohns2 said: It is interesting that some of these items, even if they seemed expensive, must not have been "self sustaining" meaning that they were selling these at a loss. Yes, hmmmm... Stamp Collecting, one of my favorites...only 919 Scouts awarded in 2019. https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2020/02/17/2019-merit-badge-rankings-which-were-the-most-and-least-popular/ How many books do you think they printed? There are five sitting in our Scout Shop (although I'm not sure they are current versions.) (I did not mention Bugling, another favorite, at the bottom of the list, because it is incorporated into Music MB pamphlet; 12882 awarded.) Link to post Share on other sites
CynicalScouter 1434 Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, TAHAWK said: I was told last year by the Director of the IRS Frenso Center that they use the first operating software post key-punch cards - the 1959 version of COBOL - in 1960's computers. Explains why they are the best part of two years behind - that and funding being cut 30% over the last ten years. "And then the camel died." NJ's entire unemployment system basically collapsed during COVID because no one knows COBOL anymore. When did they discover this was going to be a problem? July 2003. https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2020/05/nj-failed-to-fix-unemployment-system-for-19-years-records-show-now-murphy-pleads-patience.html Quote During the April 4 press briefing, Murphy begged for COBOL volunteers to help deal with the legacy systems, even dedicating a tab on the state’s COVID-19 website for applicants. The Department of Labor declined to say how many COBOL programmers the state employs, or how many volunteers reached out, citing security concerns. Edited January 20, 2021 by CynicalScouter 1 Link to post Share on other sites
scoutldr 732 Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 I am only 66 years old but have seen much technology come and go...my Mom's 78s, 33s, 45s, cassettes, 8-tracks, LaserDisks, CDs, DVDs, iPod, slide rules, adding machines, Burroughs calculators, desktop calculators, My first "pocket calculator" was a Royal with a corded stylus, 8 digit capacity (but only 4 at a time) with Nixie tube displays.. Thought we were rich when we could plunk down $129.99 for the TI SR-10 that would do exponents and square roots. Can't even get a CD player in a new car anymore. And the first Pulsar digital watch with red LED display. I hate progress. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
TAHAWK 1420 Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 40 minutes ago, scoutldr said: I am only 66 years old but have seen much technology come and go...my Mom's 78s, 33s, 45s, cassettes, 8-tracks, LaserDisks, CDs, DVDs, iPod, slide rules, adding machines, Burroughs calculators, desktop calculators, My first "pocket calculator" was a Royal with a corded stylus, 8 digit capacity (but only 4 at a time) with Nixie tube displays.. Thought we were rich when we could plunk down $129.99 for the TI SR-10 that would do exponents and square roots. Can't even get a CD player in a new car anymore. And the first Pulsar digital watch with red LED display. I hate progress. Brother, you may only hate change, rather than "progress." 100 yeasrs ago, and today, if you had/have a "telephone" hoked up to copper wires and the power in the entire area went out, the telephone worked. It had and has it's own power suppy - humongous wet cell batteries backed up by generators. We had a power outage and lost telephone service for over a week December, 2020., due to our "modern," "advanced, "voice-over-internet digital service." Moreover, Spectrum, the only supplier in our area, only takes a service call when your telephone works. YES! They lold me, when I called from the library, to call again when my telephone worked. Otherwise they cannot schedule a "service call." We are in a cell "black hole" and only the one cable-based supplier is Spectrum. This is progress? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
fred8033 1593 Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 8 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said: Yes, hmmmm... Stamp Collecting, one of my favorites...only 919 Scouts awarded in 2019. https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2020/02/17/2019-merit-badge-rankings-which-were-the-most-and-least-popular/ How many books do you think they printed? There are five sitting in our Scout Shop (although I'm not sure they are current versions.) (I did not mention Bugling, another favorite, at the bottom of the list, because it is incorporated into Music MB pamphlet; 12882 awarded.) 919 awarded in 2019. I'm betting less than 200 sold nation wide. Maybe 400 as I'm betting counselors buy them more than scouts. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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