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Anything concerning the bankruptcy and its end result belongs right here.  Apparently there are some military people here as well as the lawyers, the sea lawyers, and those with ideas.  There's an old saying that does something like this: plan for the worst and be pleased when it doesn't get that bad.  Well, it could get that bad and the lawyers in the group know that when a case goes to court nobody knows what's going to be the outcome until the Judge's gavel falls.  And then the appeal process starts.  So as I said, prepare for the worst possible outcome and be pleased if it's not that bad.

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What is legally right is not always morally right.

I would encourage everyone to not ask @ThenNow to rehash particular circumstances. They can be found by patiently browsing his posts. From what I read, they were far from legal. His claim would have b

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On 1/26/2021 at 3:08 PM, CynicalScouter said:

No, either way their pensions are covered.

BSA liquidates: Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation steps in, gathers up whatever money is needed to fund the pensions, and the plaintiffs and their attorneys fight for scraps.

BSA reorganizes: The pensions remain insured by Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation. Plaintiffs try to figure out how much of BSA they can carve out without outright killing it.

"Benefits PBGC Does Not Guarantee

  • Health and welfare benefits
  • Vacation pay
  • Severance benefits
  • Lump-sum death benefits for a death that occurs after the date the plan ended
  • Disability benefits for a disability that occurs after the plan’s termination date (or the date your employer’s bankruptcy proceeding began, if applicable)

Legal Limits on PBGC's Guarantees

  • Generally, PBGC does not guarantee any monthly pension amount that is greater than the monthly benefit your plan would have provided if you had retired at your normal retirement age.
  • The maximum amount that PBGC guarantees is set each year under provisions of ERISA. For more information, see: Maximum monthly guarantee tables
  • Higher limits may apply for people who met their plan’s requirements for a disability pension (whether they are receiving a disability pension or a non-disability pension) before the plan’s termination date. For more information, see “Guarantees for disabled participants.
  • PBGC may not fully guarantee your benefits if your plan was created or amended to increase benefits within five years before its termination date.
  • If the plan terminated while your employer was in a bankruptcy proceeding that began on or after September 16, 2006, guarantees are determined as of the date your employer’s bankruptcy proceeding began.

The guarantee applies only to benefits earned before the plan terminates; however, if the plan terminates while your employer is in bankruptcy, the guarantee may be limited to benefits earned before the bankruptcy. 

PBGC's maximum benefit guarantee is set each year under provisions of ERISA. The maximum guarantee applicable to a plan is fixed as of that plan's termination date except for cases where termination occurs during a plan sponsor's bankruptcy, in which case the maximum guarantee may be fixed as of the date the sponsor entered bankruptcy. An earlier date also may apply to certain airline industry plans.

A: PBGC’s fiscal year 2020 annual report shows a financial deficit in its Multiemployer Program net position of $63.7 billion. PBGC’s Single-Employer Program shows a positive net position of $15.5 billion.
   

FY 2020 Net Position
(as of September 30, 2020)

   Single-Employer Program Multiemployer Program
Total Assets $143.5B $3.1B
Total Liabilities $128.0B $66.9B
Net Position $15.5B ($63.7B)
What will happen to my pension benefits if the Multiemployer Program runs out of money?

A: If PBGC’s Multiemployer Program becomes insolvent [as it is now], the only funds available to support benefits would be the premiums that continue to be paid by remaining multiemployer plans. As a result, our Multiemployer Program would be unable to pay guaranteed benefits at current levels.

If this happens, PBGC's multiemployer premium income will only provide retirees with a small fraction of their benefit.

SOURCE: https://www.pbgc.gov/wr/benefits/guaranteed-benefits

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Old information: insurers are claiming many of the 90k claims were dicey

New information: interview with Kosnoff gets to the heart of the infighting - the TCC wants to focus on National; Kosnoff wants the Council assets.

Plaintiffs Firms Flooded Boy Scout Bankruptcy With Unvetted, Potentially Fraudulent Civil Claims, Insurers Allege
 

Quote

The tort claims committee, he said, was formed before the bulk of the cases were filed and so the groups with the most claimants don’t have a proportional say regarding how the litigation should be steered. The disagreement that lead to the email, Kosnoff said, stemmed from the committee not seeking to recover assets from local chapters of the Boy Scouts of America, which, Kosnoff said, could unlock many more assets for the claimants.

“That’s the frustration. And they say Kosnoff is just going to go out and building power by signing up clients. Yeah, what else is there to do?” he said. “It matters how many clients you represent because how many clients you represent determines the influence. Hell yes I wanted to be in that position. Does that mean my clients are invalid? No. It just means I was playing by the rules of the game.”

When it came to the allegations about claims being invalid and potentially fraudulent, Kosnoff said he is not a mass torts attorney, but has focused on abuse litigation for decades. The cases his group handled, he said, were vetted at multiple levels.

“I don’t want to be lumped in with these mass tort lawyers. It’s not what we did, and it stinks, and I don’t like it, but that’s a discussion for a different day,” Kosnoff said. “I would say Abused in Scouting did it the right way.”

Kosnoff further said that most of the issues the carriers raised, such as questions about the client’s signature, were trivial, and that, when faced with a client losing their rights to sue, attorneys should err on the side of their clients.

 

 

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So the news article doesn't mention Scouting by name, but I think the BSA is clearly one of the "other religious and youth-serving organizations" mentioned...

Pittsburgh Post-Gazette: Pa. House leaders plan emergency fix on abuse lawsuits after filing error

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/faith-religion/2021/02/04/Lawmakers-emergency-amendment-harrisburg-sex-abuse-lawsuits-Catholic-grand-jury/stories/202102040148

Quote

Pennsylvania House leaders support using an emergency declaration to overcome a paperwork blunder by the secretary of state’s office and get a proposed constitutional amendment to voters this May that would allow lawsuits over long-ago sexual abuse.

[...]

Thursday’s legislative move comes three days after it was revealed that the secretary of state’s office failed last year to publish as required the Legislature’s endorsement of the constitutional amendment in 2020. That failure, which cost Secretary of State Kathy Boockvar her job, would have prevented the amendment from going on this year’s ballot. 

[...]

The amendment would create a two-year window for people to file lawsuits over abuse and those they deem responsible for enabling it, regardless of how long ago it occurred. 

 

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Insurers have filed three motions listed below to compel the Coalition and Abused Scouting (AIS) and its representing law firms -Kosnoff Law, and Ichor Consulting to submit the disclosures required by the Federal Rule of Bankruptcy Procedure 2019. Not sure if legal firms AVA Law Group and Eisenberg, Rothweiler are still in the Coalition. IMHO, the Coalition appears a ball of confusion as to who is who...are you in or are you out.

Remember before August when victims were represented by one committee – the TCC (Torts Claimants Committee)?

Objection Deadline Feb 10, 2021. Hearing is requested for Feb 17, 2021.

Federal Rule of Bankruptcy Procedure 2019:

My layman understanding, under Procedure 2019 committees (e.g. Coalition) consisting of lawyers(etc.), multiple creditors (victims) or equity security holders must disclose the identity of each member and the “disclosable economic interests” (claims) in the debtor (BSA).

If a committee does not comply, “the bankruptcy court may refuse to permit the entity, group or committee to be heard or to intervene in the case, hold invalid any authority, acceptance, rejection, or objection given, procured, or received by the entity, group or committee, or grant other appropriate relief. “

Research Refererences I used:

https://content.next.westlaw.com/Glossary/PracticalLaw/I2104dddbef0811e28578f7ccc38dcbee?transitionType=Default&contextData=(sc.Default)&firstPage=true

https://www.olshanlaw.com/resources-alerts-21.html

 

Three motions 2028,2029.2030:

https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/872684_2028.pdf

Hartford Accident and Indemnity Company, First State Insurance Company and Twin City Fire Insurance Company → Coalition of Abused in Scouting (AIS), Kosnoff Law

- 247 pages. Yowser, how do you really feel about Kosnoff. Alarming quotes and tweets from Kosnoff. Questions which law firms are actually in the Coalition. A lot in here.

 

https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/872697_2029.pdf

Century Indemnity (CCI Insurance)→ J.Chad Edwards, Ichor Consulting, LLC

- 26 pages, pdf is messy, some questions regarding legal background and virtual office.

- Exhibit A Proposed Order extract (page 5,6)

Ichor Consulting LLC and J. Chad Edwards must produce the following information pursuant to Rule 2019:

A. A list of the names and addresses of all creditors (including creditors for whom the filing counsel is acting as co-counsel), and a general statement about the nature of their respective claims and when those claims arose.

B. A complete copy of each form of retainer agreement, fee agreement, engagement agreement, referral agreement and other agreements authorizing Ichor Consulting, LLC and Mr. Edwards to act on behalf of a creditor in this case, consenting to the payment of Ichor Consulting, LLC’s and Mr. Edwards’ fees and costs and their representation of multiple parties, including all amendments and modification to any such agreements.

C. A list and explanation of any co-counsel, consultant, or fee-sharing relationships and arrangements in connection with this bankruptcy case or claims against any of the Debtors, and attachment of copies of any documents that were signed in conjunction with creating that relationship or arrangement.

D. All other information and disclosures required by Fed. R. Bankr. P. 2019.

 

https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/872699_2030.pdf

Century Indemnity (CCI Insurance)→ Abused in Scouting (AIS), Kosnoff Law

- 58 pages, most readable of three motions with more sharp criticism of Kosnoff. Particularly recommend Preliminary Statement (pages 1-5) and Statement of Facts (pages 5-14).

- Exhibit A Proposed Order extract (page 27)

Abused in Scouting and Kosnoff Law PLLC must separately produce the following information pursuant to Rule 2019:

A. A list of the names and addresses of all creditors (including creditors for whom the filing counsel is acting as co-counsel) represented by Abused in Scouting and Kosnoff Law PLLC. The list should indicate whether each creditor has opted in to be part of the Coalition

B. A complete copy of each form of agreements authorizing Abused in Scouting and Kosnoff Law PLLC/Tim Kosnoff to act on behalf of a creditor in this case and their representation of multiple parties.

C. A list and explanation of any co-counsel, consultant, or fee-sharing relationships and arrangements in connection with this bankruptcy case or claims against any of the Debtors, and attachment of copies of any documents that were signed in conjunction with creating that relationship or arrangement.

D. A list of the persons or entities with an equity interest in the claims of any creditor represented by Abused in Scouting and Kosnoff Law PLLC/Tim Kosnoff other than the claimant.

E. All other information and disclosures required by Fed. R. Bankr. P. 2019.

The Coalition must produce the following information pursuant to Rule 2019:

A. A list of the names and addresses of all creditors represented by the Coalition, including the law firm that represents each creditor. The list should indicate whether each creditor represented by Abused in Scouting and/or Kosnoff Law PLLC/Tim Kosnoff has opted in to be part of the Coalition.

B. A list of the persons or entities with an equity interest in the claims of any creditor represented by the Coalition other than the claimant.

C. All other information and disclosures required by Fed. R. Bankr. P. 2019.

Edited by RememberSchiff
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Wow.  This cannot be good for the "clients", and it certainly appears to show major issues at least, and very possibly actual legal malpractice.  Not being a lawyer, I can only go by the info shared.  Thanks for the detail.  

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I don't believe AIS represents all abuse claims.  My understanding is that AIS is one member of the TCC, but I could be wrong.

I honestly think this is bad news for National.  It may help with councils going forward if some of the claims are invalid.  National is going bankrupt regardless of the numbers of claims and the BSA has been clear … they want/need this settled by summer or they risk running out of $ and liquidating.  

If the AIS & insurers fight back and forth, this will not be settled any time soon.  I fear their fighting will end up taking months of discovery (if not years) burning cash at National and forcing them into liquidation.

AIS (Kosnoff) seems to actually want National BSA to liquidate. He has been vocal about going after councils and insurance companies.  I wonder if he sees the National assets as a distraction (, liquidate them so he can go after the bigger pots of $ at insurance companies & councils).

  https://reuters.screenocean.com/record/1587144

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/can-the-boy-scouts-survive-a-flood-of-sexual-abuse-claims

 I hope I am wrong … perhaps there is a lawyer in the forum that can tell us this is great news!

 

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14 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

 If the AIS & insurers fight back and forth, this will not be settled any time soon.  I fear their fighting will end up taking months of discovery (if not years) burning cash at National and forcing them into liquidation.

 

Agree. Looks like a doubleheader coming Feb 17.

Rule 2004

https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/870498_1972.pdf

...authorizing Hartford and Century to serve subpoenas, written discovery, including interrogatories and document requests, and deposition notices pursuant to Rule 2004 on a sampling of persons who have filed sexual abuse claims (“Abuse Claims”) in these cases and (ii) providing relief from the requirements of Local Rule 3007-1(f) to permit (but not require) parties in interest in these Chapter 11 cases to file omnibus claim objections raising common legal issues to multiple claims and that may, most efficiently, be subject to resolution if heard together..

Exhibit A on page 27

There are numerous joinders and objections to above, a deluge arriving at the objection deadline today.

Procedure 2019 - I mentioned earlier today

 

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4 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

I don't believe AIS represents all abuse claims.  My understanding is that AIS is one member of the TCC, but I could be wrong.

No, AIS is not a member of the TCC.  The TCC is composed of nine abuse victims who have volunteered for that extra work (literally "volunteered", they aren't paid and don't expect to have their own claims treated any more favorably than anyone else's), and has a fiduciary duty to work for the benefit of all abuse claimants.

AIS is Koznoff, Van Arsedale and one other lawyer. There's also the "Coalition of Abused Scouts for Justice", the "CASJ" or "Coalition" for short.  The CASJ seems to have started as the AIS members plus some other lawyers, but back in September, when one of the insurers first wanted to depose Koznoff and Van Arsedale, they "withdrew" from the Coalition.

Currently the Coalition has a lawyer (but not one of the lawyers who "make up" the Coalition) who gets to participate in mediation.  But the Coalition "members" are abuse claimants, who apparently got e-mail from their lawyers that said basically "I'm putting you in this Coalition, if you don't like that go find a different lawyer, and by the way if you do that you have to pay me my fees that you owe so far". Not in so many words in the e-mail itself, but that's one reading of the e-mail itself together with notices on the lawyers' websites, retention agreements, and everything else they say their clients agreed to.

That may be part of the reason for the 10,000 duplicate claims: AIS and the Coalition both purporting to represent the same clients.

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Bankruptcy "Town Hall" scheduled for Thursday February 11 at 8PM EST. 

The Tort Claimants Committee, the Official committee appointed by the US Department of Justice, comprised of nine victims of sexual abuse as scouts will be holding  its second "Town Hall" to provide an update of its work and the status of the BSA Bankruptcy.  This will include the bankruptcy professionals serving the TCC and is is intended to assist all victims. The link for this meeting, the recording and transcript of the January meeting, and future information will be updated at TCCBSA.COM when available.

Please share.

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Boy Scouts Sex-Abuse Lawyers Decry ‘Intimidation’ From Insurers

https://www.wsj.com/articles/boy-scouts-sex-abuse-lawyers-decry-intimidation-from-insurers-11612827061?st=chobfrykhg0zs5g&reflink=article_email_share
 

Quote

In the filing Friday, the Coalition responded to the insurers singling out one claimant who withdrew his claim when the insurers asked him to respond to questions about it.

“Scaring survivors so that they withdraw presumptively valid claims is not good cause; it is disgusting,” the Coalition lawyers said. Lawyers for several other law firms also filed papers denying what one called “grossly misleading allegations, and outright fabrications by” insurers.

 

and as expected, BSA is staying the heck out of this

Quote

A Boy Scouts spokesperson said the organization continues to cooperate with the insurers and other participants in private mediation and anticipates any concerns will be appropriately addressed through that process.

The Boy Scouts have said repeatedly that they believe the abuse victims, but are staying out of the scuffle between their insurers and those representing the victims.

 

 

Edited by CynicalScouter
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10 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

staying out of the scuffle between their insurers and those representing the victims.

This is a good move.  BSA should push the court to close out the bankruptcy & their portion of the funds ASAP.  Let the insurance companies & coalition lawyers fight out the final list over time.

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3 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

BSA should push the court to close out the bankruptcy & their portion of the funds ASAP.

The article indicates that BSA is asking for this to be over by August or they will run out of money.

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