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mashmaster

potentially the stupidest GTSS rule?

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OK, helping out on an Eagle project today.  The new SM announces that the guide to safe scouting says you need to be 14 to use a wheelbarrow or wagon.  We let them use knives but they can't use a wheelbarrow?  

Is that the stupidest rule you have heard of?  

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1 hour ago, mashmaster said:

OK, helping out on an Eagle project today.  The new SM announces that the guide to safe scouting says you need to be 14 to use a wheelbarrow or wagon.  We let them use knives but they can't use a wheelbarrow?  

Is that the stupidest rule you have heard of?  

No, this is from Boy Scouts of America National Shooting Sports Manual page 99, found here https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/Outdoor Program/pdf/30931_WB.pdf

"• Water guns and rubber band guns must only be used to shoot at targets, and eye protection must be worn...."

The above rule came out while I was CSDC PD. My DE flipped his lid when he saw this as it is extremely hot where we are. First year my oldest was at day camp, we were averaging 5 kids coming down with heat exhaustion/day and leaving early. And that was with using water guns, kiddie pools, hoses, etc to keep cool. We considerd the ban on water guns a health and safety issue. But we obeyed. We do allow personal water soaking devices though.

 

As for the G2SS rules, yeah my Bear den thought I was joking when I told them they could no longer use their little red wagons for a service project. They were laughing until i told them I was serious. A lot of the G2SS rules are based upon DOL and OSHA laws. They have been around at least 5 years, if not longer. Told my SE I don't think my troop will sell popcorn since door to door sells by under 18 are prohibited by OSHA, and since the BSA is following those rules....

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23 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

No, this is from Boy Scouts of America National Shooting Sports Manual page 99, found here https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/Outdoor Program/pdf/30931_WB.pdf

"• Water guns and rubber band guns must only be used to shoot at targets, and eye protection must be worn...."

The above rule came out while I was CSDC PD. My DE flipped his lid when he saw this as it is extremely hot where we are. First year my oldest was at day camp, we were averaging 5 kids coming down with heat exhaustion/day and leaving early. And that was with using water guns, kiddie pools, hoses, etc to keep cool. We considerd the ban on water guns a health and safety issue. But we obeyed. We do allow personal water soaking devices though.

 

As for the G2SS rules, yeah my Bear den thought I was joking when I told them they could no longer use their little red wagons for a service project. They were laughing until i told them I was serious. A lot of the G2SS rules are based upon DOL and OSHA laws. They have been around at least 5 years, if not longer. Told my SE I don't think my troop will sell popcorn since door to door sells by under 18 are prohibited by OSHA, and since the BSA is following those rules....

It is crazy....   Soon they will have to sit in personal bubbles.

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Understand the "don't point water pistols at people" thing has been there a long time. And it's not about keeping people from getting wet, it's about not pointing any kind of gun (real or play) at people. It comes out of the "BSA is not military and does not train youth for war" thing from the 1960s.

And yes, the you must be 14 to use a little red wagon rule is one of the dumbest in GTSS.

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Posted (edited)

I still have my little red wagon. It's not much worse for the wear considering the downhill races I did with it when I wasn't using it to complete chores.

Edited by qwazse

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Posted (edited)

According to Scouting, the rules were developed by @RichardB’s team:

BSA national health and safety guru Richard Bourlon and his team of volunteers and professionals created these simple, clear guidelines to align the BSA with other youth-serving and service organizations.

“Habitat for Humanity gave us great feedback on their experiences” with youth-work restrictions, Bourlon tells me. He also consulted the U.S. Department of Labor.

In other words, these guidelines didn’t come out of thin air. They’re the work of hours of analysis meant to prevent injuries.

https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2015/03/09/check-the-bsas-tool-use-policy-before-your-next-service-project/

 

Richard, not to put you on the spot, but do you have insight into this particular rule?

Edited by shortridge

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Oh wait.

If you are a scout leader all this now applies to you outside of scouting as well.🤣

 

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I always wondered why DOL rules for businesses are being used by a non-profit educational organization that is suppose to train youth to be productive and better citizens?

 

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Oh where to begin:

Two registered adult leaders 21 years of age or over are required at all Scouting activities, including meetings. There must be a registered female adult leader over 21 in every unit serving females. A registered female adult leader over 21 must be present for any activity involving female youth. Notwithstanding the minimum leader requirements, age- and program-appropriate supervision must always be provided.

 

 

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15 hours ago, shortridge said:

According to Scouting, the rules were developed by @RichardB’s team:

BSA national health and safety guru Richard Bourlon and his team of volunteers and professionals created these simple, clear guidelines to align the BSA with other youth-serving and service organizations.

“Habitat for Humanity gave us great feedback on their experiences” with youth-work restrictions, Bourlon tells me. He also consulted the U.S. Department of Labor.

In other words, these guidelines didn’t come out of thin air. They’re the work of hours of analysis meant to prevent injuries.

https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2015/03/09/check-the-bsas-tool-use-policy-before-your-next-service-project/

 

Richard, not to put you on the spot, but do you have insight into this particular rule?

Happy Monday, 

https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2014/01/15/whats-that-age-again-a-complete-guide-to-when-scouts-can-do-what/

The links in the blog are out of date since the transfer of the www.scouting.org website, but this pretty much sums it up:  "...The BSA’s Health and Safety team developed the age- and rank-appropriate guidelines based on the mental, physical, emotional and social maturity of Boy Scouts of America youth members..."

The updated info can be found here:  https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/toc/

So couple of discussion items: 

What requirements are there for youth to use wheelbarrows or wagons?  Unaware of any but please let me know.  

What risks would be present for younger scouts in the use of wheelbarrows or wagons?  

Discuss.  

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, RichardB said:

 

 

So couple of discussion items: 

What requirements are there for youth to use wheelbarrows or wagons?  Unaware of any but please let me know.  

What risks would be present for younger scouts in the use of wheelbarrows or wagons?  

Discuss.  

 

 

 

 

Do you really want to be pedantic about "requirements".  Fine - there are service project hours required of younger scouts and those service projects may require the use of wagons and wheelbarrows to complete.

As for risks present for younger scouts in the use of wheelbarrows or wagons?  None that I can think of for wagons, something young boys AND girls use outside of scouting all the time.  For wheelbarrows?  As long as they are working with wheelbarrows of an appropriate size and are not trying to steer a wheelbarrow up or down a ramp into a truck or building, the only real risk is that the wheelbarrow tips and spills its contents.  Instead out outright banning wheelbarrows, how about emphasizing that Scouts need to use wheelbarrows that are appropriately sized for them (ie a smaller garden-style wheelbarrow and not a large mason's wheelbarrow) and that Scouts can't use wheelbarrows on makeshift or other ramps?

 

 

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